Strength Based Valor Bard

[DireSickFish]

I'm making a bad for an upcoming campeign and in my last one nearly everyone at the table had an 8 STR. I wanted to try and get arround the whole rapier weilding-fest this time around. Is it possible to go STR instead of DEX on a valor bard? I'm very worried about how I can get decent AC at low lvls. Cross classing is an option but Valor bards already have tow ait till lvl6 to get there second attack and I don't know if it is worth pushing it back further.

[odigity]

I'm making a bad for an upcoming campeign and in my last one nearly everyone at the table had an 8 STR. I wanted to try and get arround the whole rapier weilding-fest this time around. Is it possible to go STR instead of DEX on a valor bard? I'm very worried about how I can get decent AC at low lvls. Cross classing is an option but Valor bards already have tow ait till lvl6 to get there second attack and I don't know if it is worth pushing it back further.

Just hang back till lvl 3 when you get Med armor prof. Plenty of ways for a Bard to contribute till then.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Survive by staying out of melee at first; Stick to throwing Javelins and Vicious Mockery until lvl 3 when you get medium armor and a shield. Then at 4 take the heavy armor feat. Congrats, you're now an arcane, full-casting, oathless Paladin.

[DireSickFish]

Ah I missed the fact that they get medium armor proff. Great idea I'll just get heavy armor at lvl4. Sweet.

[odigity]

Ah I missed the fact that they get medium armor proff. Great idea I'll just get heavy armor at lvl4. Sweet.

It's a valid choice, but I'm not sure I'd do it. Heavy armor gets you AC 18, sure, but Medium armor + 14 Dex gets you AC 17 which is almost as good, plus the extra Dex helps with (a) init (b) saves (c) bows, which are still useful (d) skills (e)tc.

ASIs are so valuable, that I think I'd rather use it to bump Dex than acquire Heavy Armor prof.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

The heavy armor feat comes with +1 STR, which takes out some of the sting of spending an ASI. Alternatively, if you're DM allows it you could train in your downtime to gain the proficiency.

[Townopolis]

If using point-buy, you're probably better off leaving DEX at 10, doing whatever you can to tough out levels 1 and 2, getting heavy armor at 4, and relying on proficiency for DEX saves. DEX is normally a god stat, but since you're going out of your way to use STR to attack anyways, it might be better to focus on high attack stats (STR & CHA), moderate WIS (for saves & perception), and letting the rest take care of themselves.

[DireSickFish]

Hmm, any other good half feats that give +1 STR that I could take at lvl8? If not I'll have to take an odd STR at character creation.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Feats that give +1 to STR: Athlete (meh), Resilience if you chose STR (meh), the armor feats (not needed), Weapon master (not needed unless you want to pull off Monster weapon shenanigans) and Tavern Brawler (?)

Depending on your race choice, starting with 17 in STR is doable. With Dragonborn for instance. Or if you have an odd number in any other stat, you can split your ASI at level 8.

Example: You could start with 15 15 14 10 8 8 or 15 15 13 10 10 8 and with Dragonborn have 17 STR and 16 CHA at lvl 1. That's just one possibility.

[HugeC]

Mountain Dwarf!
Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 15 (7+2+7+0+2+9=27)
Feats/ASI: Heavily Armored, +1 Str/Cha, +2 Str, +2 Cha, +2 Cha

Edit: Wait, start with Str 17, Cha 14 instead, and change ASI at level 8 to +2 Cha. You get 18 STR for levels 4-7 that way.

[odigity]

The heavy armor feat comes with +1 STR, which takes out some of the sting of spending an ASI. Alternatively, if you're DM allows it you could train in your downtime to gain the proficiency.

I forgot about that because I've never read the armor prof feats a second time. Decided my first time through that I don't like the idea of burning a feat just to get proficient with 1/3 of the armor table.

However, that does make it far less onerous.


Hmm, any other good half feats that give +1 STR that I could take at lvl8? If not I'll have to take an odd STR at character creation.

There's Heavy Armor Master, which essentially gives you DR3. Pretty dang neat IMO, at least at lower levels.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

There's Heavy Armor Master, which essentially gives you DR3. Pretty dang neat IMO, at least at lower levels.

It's a decent feat, but taking it a level 8 is probably taking too late.

[DireSickFish]

I was going to go human and start with enduring. I'd considered a dwarf but don't want to do a Dragonborn or Horc for campaign reasons. It's going to be a spacy high tech game and want a more normal looking race.

I'll have a read thorough on Tavern Brawler and Athleet to see if they fit flavor-wise. I reallyw ant to be an "in your face" bard and the extra HP will help out a ton.

[Ashrym]

I was going to go human and start with enduring. I'd considered a dwarf but don't want to do a Dragonborn or Horc for campaign reasons. It's going to be a spacy high tech game and want a more normal looking race.

I'll have a read thorough on Tavern Brawler and Athleet to see if they fit flavor-wise. I reallyw ant to be an "in your face" bard and the extra HP will help out a ton.

Tavern brawler matches up with using your lute as an improvised weapon.

[Rummy]

It's a decent feat, but taking it a level 8 is probably taking too late.

No way. Heavy Armor Master is still great at level 8. 5e really leans heavily on iterative attacks, so taking three points from each of them is still significant. Also, HAM works wonders when coupled with Armor of Agathys, which until you can snag at level ten. AoA cast as a level 5 spell is very potent. That typed, I'd go with a one level fighter dip and snag HAM at first level. You will be a Melee God. Trust me, it is worth it to delay everything by a level. HAM at low levels is just that good. Also, you want to grab an awesome offensive feat early, instead of an armor feat. Finally, starting as a fighter gives you Con save prof, which is gold for a valor bard.

[mister__joshua]

To agree with Rummy, our fighter took HAM at level 1 and he's been a beast in melee fights, even (especially) against multiple lower CR enemies which can cause problems for parties in 5th with the bound accuracy.

Also in agreement, as the Bard 20 ability is not terribly inspiring, if you want to melee a 1/2 level dip in Fighter, Cleric or Paladin would benefit you a lot. All have different merits. I quite like this guide: http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4146291

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Can't read that guide since I'm at work, so I might be repeating, but my thoughts on multi-classing with a STR Bard build:

As said, for heavy armor you'll want Cleric, Fighter or Paladin.

Cleric: 1 level seems like enough. Life domain seems best for better healing and solid domain spells. Nature is alright, with an extra skill and a cantrip. Tempest and War rely on your WIS mod unfortunately. You'll need at least 13 WIS to make this work, which drains some points off other stats.

Fighter: 1 or 2 levels. Fighter gives a nice CON save proficiency, great for a caster. Level 1 gets fighting style and Second wind. Stay for a second level and get the very versatile Action Surge. Since this is a STR build, no problems for multiclassing.

Paladin: I think 2 levels is best in order to get Divine Smite, Fighting Style and Paladin Spellcasting. 10 points in Lay On Hands is okay, it's two uses of Remove Disease/Poison, and Divine Sense relies on your CHA mod so no problems there. Requires STR and CHA, which is A-okay. Divine Smite calls out "paladin spell slots" which may need some clarification with the DM.

General drawbacks: Your Dex save is going to suck, a lot.

[odigity]

Divine Smite calls out "paladin spell slots" which may need some clarification with the DM.

No clarification needed. If you multiclass two or more classes with the Spellcasting feature (as opposed to Warlock's Pact Magic), they all use the combined spell slot table. Which means they're all usable for Divine Smite; to say otherwise would require some way of allocating part of the slots on the combined table to Paladin, which makes no sense and has no rules support.

Which is why Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 18 is so popular...

[Vogonjeltz]

I'm making a bad for an upcoming campeign and in my last one nearly everyone at the table had an 8 STR. I wanted to try and get arround the whole rapier weilding-fest this time around. Is it possible to go STR instead of DEX on a valor bard? I'm very worried about how I can get decent AC at low lvls. Cross classing is an option but Valor bards already have tow ait till lvl6 to get there second attack and I don't know if it is worth pushing it back further.

Not only would it be possible, it would be preferable. College of Valor Bards get medium armor proficiency, and medium armor reduces the net value of Dexterity. You'd be vastly better off with high str, cha, and con then high dex, cha, and con. The answer to poor AC is to, like a Wizard, avoid melee combat where possible, and have a good Constitution score. You might also consider picking up the Defensive Duelist feat, typically early creatures won't have more than 1 melee attack per round.

Oh, and remember: I before E except after C... (wielding, not weilding), and it's campaign, not campeign.