Alternate Wildshape Rules

[Easy_Lee]

I have a moon druid at the table and am considering a set of wildshape house rules. I wanted to run them by the playground first to see what y'all think.

Basically, I have a few problems with wildshape. It's too strong at level 20 and level 2-4, doesn't allow the druid to switch back and forth easily, druids often just pick the same form twice which is boring, and going from 2 uses to infinity is weird. Here're my proposed changes.


You may choose a number of forms per short rest equal to your proficiency bonus (or equivalent based on druid levels only).
You may switch freely between the chosen forms and your natural form, but total tranformed time cannot exceed the typical wildshape duration.
When you suffer damage or a debilitating effect in one form, it retains those penalties any time you shapeshift into that form again before finishing a short rest.
If you die while shapeshifted, you cannot assume that form again until you finish a short rest.
No multiattacking creatures allowed until character level 5.


I think these rules promote a more fast and loose style of shapeshifting. Druids can switch forms as needed without worrying about whether they'll need to revert to their human form soon or save some of the form's duration for later. They lose some time off the total wildshape duration, but can save it for when they need it. And none of that Brown bear business until it's not OP.

It also promotes druids to choose more than just one or two favored forms they always use. Even at max level, this wouldn't permit any of that wildshape into a mammoth every round BS. Instead, killing a druid would be more like killing Aku from Samurai Jack. Come to think of it, that'd make a pretty cool endboss.

What do you think?

[Demonic Spoon]

The "no multiattack" restriction is kind of hamfisted since there are strong CR1 creatures that don't multiattack. Just limit the CR. CR1 at level 2 is and always was dumb. Set the limit to CR 1/2 until level 4 and you're probably fine.

I think choosing a limited subset of forms per day would hurt variety more than it would help. Am I more likely to use one or two forms if I have every form available, or if I just have 2-4 forms available?

Finally, I'd be leery about giving moon druids too much ability to wildshape out of combat without consequence. Remember they're still full casters with all the versatility and power that implies. If they can also at-will become any utility form that want without some other cost (eating into the extremely high number of per-day wildshaped minutes doesn't really count), they risk overshadowing other members of the party. Why send the rogue to scout, when I can just have the moon druid wildshape into a stealthy form?

that kind of flexibility should come from a dedicated Shifter class, one that isn't also a full caster.

All that said, I really like the "if you go down, you can't wildshape again until after a short rest" restriction for Druid 20.

[Easy_Lee]

@Demonic all good points. It's unfortunate that the shifter thing was crammed into moon druid. That said, by RAW they don't get very much investment into any of the things they do besides casting. I figure a moon druid able to shift at will (a la level 20), but without as many forms to choose from and with no ability to shift back into a type that died, is more balanced and fun than the current iteration.

What if I changed it like this: At the end of a long rest, you choose a number of forms to shift into equal to your proficiency bonus (post-10 elementals count for two points). Those are the only forms you can shift into until your next long rest, and the other rules still apply.

[Demonic Spoon]

I don't think the shifter thing was really crammed into moon druid. It's just that they decided to create a subclass emphasizing one of the most iconic features of druids. Shifter was never a base class, and there was never really any chance of Shifter becoming a base class. That doesn't preclude it in the future


What if I changed it like this: At the end of a long rest, you choose a number of forms to shift into equal to your proficiency bonus (post-10 elementals count for two points). Those are the only forms you can shift into until your next long rest, and the other rules still apply.


That's not really any different. It has all the same problems I mentioned before, simultaneously discouraging you from shifting into "new" forms to fit the moment, and retaining the same out of combat versatility when you just prepare one combat form + 1 stealth form + 1 flying form...

[Easy_Lee]

That's not really any different. It has all the same problems I mentioned before, simultaneously discouraging you from shifting into "new" forms to fit the moment, and retaining the same out of combat versatility when you just prepare one combat form + 1 stealth form + 1 flying form...

Yeah, but what stops druids from doing that anyway? You're seldom going to need stealth, combat, and flight all in the same short rest. And a clever druid can use something like owl for both stealth and flight; who would suspect a random owl, particularly one who nobody heard fly by?

I think the real issue is finding a way to balance the whole shift into forms then back out. Thing is, I'm not so concerned about balance as long as everyone in the party is useful. My party consists of the druid, a warlock (probably going to be tome or familiar), and a dwarven cleric. The other two do things that the moon druid can't no matter what form she chooses. And pretty much any class I can think of is better at a handful of things than the druid can possibly be (fighters and rogues: damage, bards: social and buffs, wizards: batman and ending encounters with a well-placed spell, sorcerers: blowing things up, etc). Sure, the moon druid gets some nice things, but so do the other classes. Only real time the moon druid is broken is at 20, but I think I fixed that problem with the rule about not shifting to a form you already died in that short rest (assuming my players actually get to level 20).

[Dalebert]

This would be incredibly practical but I don't think wildshaping is supposed to be. It's a limited resource that is suppossed to be managed. The idea of allowing this is not unlike allowing any caster to switch between concentrate spells without losing the spell slot. This is an inherent limitation that is intended. I would love to make a house rule that my warlock can cast Hex for a combat, then switch it off to cast invisibility, then switch that off so he could get the same Hex back for a combat without having to recast and use another slot. That would be awesome! But it's not intended to be practical. It's intended to be a limitation of resources. If you wildshape and then need turn back for some reason, like to cast a spell, you should be prepared to use another wildshape to turn back again.

There was a variant of shape-shifting in 3.5 that allowed only certain specific forms but allowed the druid to switch back and forth at any time. The point was they gave up something for that increase in usage, in this case versatility. I think if you want to to houserule an alternative, you should go that route and try to balance it out. Give them a certain number of shapes EVER, but then allow them to switch back and forth freely. Also those shapes got very specific buffs and usually not every single ability that form would normally have. Alternatively, maybe go the PF route and give them a much shorter duration like 1 min/level and they have to be used in one minute increments. That's still enough to use one every combat without a thought and then some. I'm just brainstorming and I haven't thought it through carefully for balance as you should. I'm just saying don't ignore an intended resource limit that's there for balance.

[Easy_Lee]

Fair points. I'll give it a few sessions and see what happens. I do think the wildshaping needs to be tweaked somehow, because as is that capstone and dual-casting a given form you died in is just kind of silly.

[Demonic Spoon]

Yeah, but what stops druids from doing that anyway? You're seldom going to need stealth, combat, and flight all in the same short rest. And a clever druid can use something like owl for both stealth and flight; who would suspect a random owl, particularly one who nobody heard fly by?


Sure, it's the same situation as in the OP, but that situation is bad - the Druid can at-will pretty much obsolete more stealth-focused characters, or characters with good physical skills that let them climb/get around easily.


I think the real issue is finding a way to balance the whole shift into forms then back out. Thing is, I'm not so concerned about balance as long as everyone in the party is useful. My party consists of the druid, a warlock (probably going to be tome or familiar), and a dwarven cleric. The other two do things that the moon druid can't no matter what form she chooses. And pretty much any class I can think of is better at a handful of things than the druid can possibly be (fighters and rogues: damage, bards: social and buffs, wizards: batman and ending encounters with a well-placed spell, sorcerers: blowing things up, etc). Sure, the moon druid gets some nice things, but so do the other classes. Only real time the moon druid is broken is at 20, but I think I fixed that problem with the rule about not shifting to a form you already died in that short rest (assuming my players actually get to level 20).


I don't disagree, but I think that the moon druid gets nice things regardless of whether or not you houserule this.

what you really want is a Shifter class. You could see what people have come up with and/or request it and/or make something yourself.

[Easy_Lee]

I don't disagree, but I think that the moon druid gets nice things regardless of whether or not you houserule this.

what you really want is a Shifter class. You could see what people have come up with and/or request it and/or make something yourself.

That's not a bad idea, and the party already has two other casters. I'll talk to the player about it.

[Malifice]

My rule: Druids retain HD and HP on wildshaping. They gain temporary HP equal to Druid level plus Wisdom modifier each time they wild shape.

Fixes the Moon Druid in one fell swoop. 10 temporary HP per short rest at 2nd level places it on par with Second wind or lay on hands.

[odigity]

You may switch freely between the chosen forms and your natural form, but total tranformed time cannot exceed the typical wildshape duration.
When you suffer damage or a debilitating effect in one form, it retains those penalties any time you shapeshift into that form again before finishing a short rest.



You need to at least fix the above loop-hole. Given those two rules, a 2nd lvl Moon Druid can start with Brown Bear, then when close to 0hp, switch to the next most-HP form, then so-on down the line, ending up burning through hundreds of temp HP in one long battle.

[GiantOctopodes]

My rule: Druids retain HD and HP on wildshaping. They gain temporary HP equal to Druid level plus Wisdom modifier each time they wild shape.

Fixes the Moon Druid in one fell swoop. 10 temporary HP per short rest at 2nd level places it on par with Second wind or lay on hands.

/agreed

I think this really solves much of everything in terms of the issues with Druids and Wildshape.

[Easy_Lee]

You need to at least fix the above loop-hole. Given those two rules, a 2nd lvl Moon Druid can start with Brown Bear, then when close to 0hp, switch to the next most-HP form, then so-on down the line, ending up burning through hundreds of temp HP in one long battle.

The rule limiting total forms per short rest prevents that until 20 (after which point a RAW druid can just repeat-cast the highest HP form, which my rules don't allow). My idea was to reduce the combat usefulness of wildshape while increasing its utility out of combat.