Creatures you'd like to play, but which are impractical

[Jeff the Green]

My Vodou-inspired homebrew has reached the Sargasso Sea of creativity, so to try to get things moving I thought I'd try to 'brew some monster classes. I already did yak folk, but what are some other monsters you'd like to play but either have ridiculous LA, LA –, or other things that make them impractical for PCS?

(Don't forget there's this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192151-Community-Based-Monster-Classes-VII); no point in reinventing the wheel.)

[(Un)Inspired]

I just reread Good Omens and I'd love to be able to play an unholy scion. Ugh LA 5 is such a tough pill to swallow that it might as well be a rusty-spiked suppository.

[atemu1234]

3.5 Catfolk. Reason 3,460 that I allow PF content in my games.

[Judge_Worm]

Awakened Battletitan, Giants (all), True Dragons (all), Elder Brain, Ethereal Filcher, Gargoyle, Chaos Beast, Inevitable (all), and Yrthak.

That's my shortlist that isn't double included in the other thread.

[Urpriest]

Making Monster Classes, are we? :smallsmile:

A Sithilar class would be pretty rad. Another awesome idea: Lilitu, a PrC for Succubi.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Semi-seriously: Saint. My DMs have an issue with me taking it. Only one who "didn't" hinted that an epic wizard would off me for taking Vow of Peace. I had finally gotten my fellow PCs to sign on board too...

Seriously:
Horned Devil (Cornugon)
The OA dragons (Specifically the typhoon dragon. DMs have an issue with 1/week 20 mile radius hurricanes)
Glabrezu

[Invader]

Angels and true dragons off the top of my head, especially angels in an epic heavens vs hells campaign.

[137beth]

Awakened Battletitan, Giants (all), True Dragons (all), Elder Brain, Ethereal Filcher, Gargoyle, Chaos Beast, Inevitable (all), and Yrthak.

That's my shortlist that isn't double included in the other thread.
While it is pathfinder, there is a PDF product called In the Company of Dragons, (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/133090/In-The-Company-of-Dragons-PFRPG?term=in+the+company+of+dr). It has a base true-dragon race, and an associated class which goes from levels 1-20 (but you can multiclass out of it and advance as a normal class). It is balanced against pathfinder races, though, which are about 1 LA stronger than 3.5 races.


Anyhow, for a request, I've been thinking about a playable Omnimental (MMIII/ECS). That and the Living Spell are the two Eberron creatures that I thought were interesting but were never really developed further.
(I don't think a living spell monster class is feasible, though.)

[Jeff the Green]

I just reread Good Omens and I'd love to be able to play an unholy scion. Ugh LA 5 is such a tough pill to swallow that it might as well be a rusty-spiked suppository.

It's in the compilation I linked above. Three levels, and basically everything the template has (with some modifications). The SLA table disappeared, but I think it's the same as in HoH.


Awakened Battletitan, Giants (all), True Dragons (all), Elder Brain, Ethereal Filcher, Gargoyle, Chaos Beast, Inevitable (all), and Yrthak.

That's my shortlist that isn't double included in the other thread.

Ooh, elder brain and ethereal filcher would be tricky. Gargoyles would be cool. Maybe with Kol Korran's reworking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?78129-Ode-to-the-Maligned-forgotten-(Gargoyles-more-than-a-roof-top-decoration)).


Making Monster Classes, are we? :smallsmile:

A Sithilar class would be pretty rad. Another awesome idea: Lilitu, a PrC for Succubi.

Silthilar's also there, though I'm not 100% certain whether it's balanced or not. Lilitu's an awesome idea, though.


Semi-seriously: Saint. My DMs have an issue with me taking it. Only one who "didn't" hinted that an epic wizard would off me for taking Vow of Peace. I had finally gotten my fellow PCs to sign on board too...

Seriously:
Horned Devil (Cornugon)
The OA dragons (Specifically the typhoon dragon. DMs have an issue with 1/week 20 mile radius hurricanes)
Glabrezu

Cornugon's also in the compilation. Glabrezu's doable; he's pretty basic, to the point I may need to come up with new things. I don't know much about the lung dragons. I'll have to look at them.


Angels and true dragons off the top of my head, especially angels in an epic heavens vs hells campaign.
Well, there's the Daeva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9734048&postcount=1033), which basically starts as an astral deva an works up to solar.


Anyhow, for a request, I've been thinking about a playable Omnimental (MMIII/ECS). That and the Living Spell are the two Eberron creatures that I thought were interesting but were never really developed further.
(I don't think a living spell monster class is feasible, though.)

I'll need to look at omnimental again. I disagree and think you could manage a living spell; it might take someone more creative than me to manage it, though.

(Note that I'm not necessarily averse to redoing something in that compilation that's bad, for some reason.)

[(Un)Inspired]

Do they need to be based on D&D monsters?

[Jeff the Green]

Do they need to be based on D&D monsters?

It helps give a baseline for how many HD, exactly what abilities it should have, and such, but not necessarily, no. I did a yee naaldlooshii (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?234642-3-5-PrC-With-This-I-Creep-on-All-Fours-The-Skinwalker-(PEACH)) (only sort of a monster) a while back, and have cu sith, leanan sidhe, baobhan sith, and huldra monsters knocking around in my hard drive somewhere, so I at least have some idea of how to go about making new things from myth/literature.

[137beth]

I'll need to look at omnimental again. I disagree and think you could manage a living spell; it might take someone more creative than me to manage it, though.

(Note that I'm not necessarily averse to redoing something in that compilation that's bad, for some reason.)

I could see doing a monster class for a specific living spell. That shouldn't be any harder than a normal monster class (obviously you'd have to remove the no-intelligence if you want it to be playable, but that is easy to do). It would also be fairly straightforwards to make a generic "living blaster spell", which can model a living spell of any direct damage spell.
Thinking about it again, you might be right, it might be possible to do a single living spell which can cover a wide range of spells. The only ability that really varies wildly is spell effect. The main obstacle is in successfully 'scaling down' high level spells which don't have obvious lesser versions.

[Urpriest]

Silthilar's also there, though I'm not 100% certain whether it's balanced or not. Lilitu's an awesome idea, though.


Ah I see, I had been searching for a misspelling. Nifty.

[Larrx]

I've always wanted to play a swarm of insects. Or a race that can become a swarm. Or a swarm that can masquerade as a single medium sized creature. I know that there are some (mostly 3.0) options to allow this, but they've always seemed cumbersome. If such a thing were written as a monster class it could open up a lot of unique mechanical and roleplay opportunities.

[kellbyb]

I've always wanted to play a swarm of insects. Or a race that can become a swarm. Or a swarm that can masquerade as a single medium sized creature. I know that there are some (mostly 3.0) options to allow this, but they've always seemed cumbersome. If such a thing were written as a monster class it could open up a lot of unique mechanical and roleplay opportunities.

There's a PrC called swarmlord that lets you do that. I believe it's in Savage species.

[Urpriest]

There's a PrC called swarmlord that lets you do that. I believe it's in Savage species.

I believe that was the cumbersome 3.0 option mentioned. :smallwink:

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Sirine
Shimmerling Swarm
Quickling
Verdant Prince
Ogre Mage
All the Genies
Hellcat
Awakened Dire Animals

[(Un)Inspired]

What about an ilithid tadpole?

Or like a male harpy? (Marpy?)

[Flickerdart]

Murderjacks (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040828a).

The sad thing is, they would actually make a pretty balanced assassin or anti-ranger class*. Fey HD, 2/3 Bard casting, 1 step behind a rogue in SA, Frightful Presence, always-on blur, and a nifty bit of evil fluff (these guys heal their victims to they can have fun torturing them longer, what's not to like?).

*Not to derail the thread, but there need to be anti-classes for more than just paladin!

[(Un)Inspired]

*Not to derail the thread, but there need to be anti-classes for more than just paladin!

Like an anti-wizard? We already have the barbarian.

What would an anti-bard be? Someone who plays music so poorly it debuffs their enemies?

[Malak'ai]

Like an anti-wizard? We already have the barbarian.

What would an anti-bard be? Someone who plays music so poorly it debuffs their enemies?

We already have the Dirgesinger :smalltongue:.

[Flickerdart]

Like an anti-wizard? We already have the barbarian.

What would an anti-bard be? Someone who plays music so poorly it debuffs their enemies?
I mean, in the same way that the various antipaladins are devoted to spreading evil and misery with the same tools that a paladin spreads law and good, the murderjack uses the ranger's tools (stealth, minor spellcasting) to terrorize humanoids and drive them out of its forests, whereas the ranger is more about taming nature.

So an anti-wizard would probably be more like a sorcerer or warlock in nature, spurning "fancy book learnin's" but still running around doing magic.

[Telonius]

Half-Elves. :smallbiggrin:

Gargoyles. Awesome flavor, but man - 4RHD and +5 LA, for a creature that's supposed to be CR4 out of the box?

[kaffalidjmah]

Arrow demon. Take my 25647 arrow in tha face! Double bow with different power up and situational arrow for everyone!

Maybe with the orizhon archer as prc (don't remember if is the correct name) and level in warrior for random sniping from 1300 meter and random storming when close. I have a new villain

[WhamBamSam]

Blink Dogs. The Cohort LA confuses and infuriates me. Also Beguilers and Tressym, because apparently I can't even masquerade as a Blink Dog as an actual PC, at least not with something so mundane as Alter Self.

A Gelatinous Cube templated to have at least 3 Int.

A Pie Fiend (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401a).

At least the ability to use the cool monsters (and give them class levels) adds a little incentive to DM.

[Malroth]

Mercury dragon swordsage

[Jeff the Green]

Lots of good ideas. Time to go look at their stats.


Like an anti-wizard? We already have the barbarian.

What would an anti-bard be? Someone who plays music so poorly it debuffs their enemies?

There's the Harbinger from Dragon 337.

[Lanson]

Mercury dragon swordsage
Dat tornado throw O.O

[StoneCipher]

A tendriculous druid.

[Nightraiderx]

gargoyle, which has been mentioned. There is also a lack of playable shadow-plane creatures, other than using the dark template.

[Xelbiuj]

Balor/Pit Fiend/Solar
Awakened construct on a permanently animated object, scarecrow. (this even a rules legal use of awaken construct?)
Vampire Lord
Troll

[Flickerdart]

Awakened construct on a permanently animated object, scarecrow. (this even a rules legal use of awaken construct?)
I've seen people try to argue that it is, but never convincingly.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'm partial to true dragons, mind flayers, and done outsiders. For the first case I at least got to play a tome dragon for a little bit before the boards went down for the big update.

For a decent chunk of aberrations, you can also play a druid with aberrant wildshape, but that's not the same.

[torrasque666]

I'd love to actually play as a Warforged Charger, rather than just be polymorphed into one. Why? Easier entry into Juggernaut. Only need two feats instead of three.

[Jeff the Green]

So I think I'm going to take on the murderjack, lilitu, and (some of) lung dragons. I think that's a fairly good mix.

I have a question I was hoping someone could answer for me. Lung dragons don't cast, right? I'm not overlooking something?

Edit:
Wait... I knew I'd seen a murderjack class. I don't know how I missed it. And by the very person who suggested it, too. :smallannoyed:

Maybe gargoyles instead. I really do like Kol Korran's take on them.

[Judge_Worm]

Another thing I'd like to see is a Half-Inevitable inherited template for constructs. Which could be a class instead, I suppose. The construct was made with a piece of an inevitable, or it could be an afflicted template if someone got an Inevitable graft. It would add the lawful subtype. Maybe the base creature would have it's (the inevitable's) memories but not it's programming or something.


And in kinda the same vein but completely different, a class that gives an SP or SU ability to do a mind switch with another creature (your mental stats, their physical stats) with some sort of thrall ability as well (yes I'm aware a Psion can do these things). So if you're playing an Aboleth or Brain in a Jar, or something else that is in extreme danger or highly inconvenienced(like a colossal creature in a halfling tent) by adventuring you can instead just snatch a body to make life easier and safer.

[NotScaryBats]

I think it would be great for Ethergaunts to be either updated to 3.5 or given a monster class. They are really cool.

Maurezhi are also from Fiend Folio and are kinda like Demon Ghouls that can turn into the things that they eat, which I think is just about the coolest power a demon ghoul could possibly have. Also, no yucky stench that debuffs your allies.

Draconians from Dragonlance are really super cool, but I don't have any Dragonlance books and the more hard-core ones would be neat to have access to without horribly gimping yourself with RHD and LA.

Nerubians from World of Warcraft are interesting spider creatures. The WoW RPG has a book (Dark Factions) that details stats for them, but it is either an awful 8 level monster class, or a 4RHD +4 LA creature :/ (or you could really gimp yourself and be a Nerubian Spiderlord for 14 RHD and +6 LA.)

[Madhava]

Equiceph would be at the top of my list. Yeah... those horse people from the Miniatures Handbook (probably elsewhere too).

I don't know what it is about them that I find so fascinating. Possibly the fact that theirs is an evil slaver culture (Evil? But... who doesn't like horses? Really, you guys are evil?).

But levels of monsterous humanoid ...bleh.

I also like the idea of playing a wight, juju zombie (I have this fondness for middle/lesser undead), satyr, treant, or nearly any type of awakened true golem.

[Shadowscale]

I would appreciate to be able to see these if at all possible.

Hill giant
Bugbear
Hobgoblin
Ogre
Merrow
Troll
Scrag
Titan
Pit Fiend
Merrilith

[Manly Man]

For me, Pathfinder's outer dragons would be awesome to see as a monster class. Both them and gem dragons; in one thread I'd suggested that the outer dragons get Psion manifester levels instead of the typical Sorcerer spellcasting, and someone else had also offered their own suggestion of the different types of dragons getting different disciplines based on whether they're more Far Realm-y or not.

[Jeff the Green]

I would appreciate to be able to see these if at all possible.

Hill giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360)
Bugbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9243419&postcount=143)
Hobgoblin
Ogre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8789542&postcount=758)
Merrow
Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10262043&postcount=191)
Scrag
Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9473369&postcount=145)
Pit Fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7976670&postcount=80)
Merrilith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8132375&postcount=246)

That leaves hobgoblin, merrow, and scrag. Scrag and merrow are easy; just slap the amphibious template on the troll and ogre. For hobgoblins, I prefer to make them actually LA +1. I seem to have deleted my notes, but I think I worked this out with a player:


+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Hobgoblins are tough and trained from birth as fighters and scouts, but their military regimentation means that they have a less well-developed sense of self.
+4 Move Silently, +4 Balance, +2 Intimidate
A free Iron Heart maneuver that can be changed each level. I think we said that IL is 3/4 their character level (not ECL) and it can't be recovered. If they have levels in Warblade it's basically a bonus maneuver known and must be readied (and can be recovered) as normal, and their IL is their Warblade IL if it's higher than 3/4 their character level. I dunno whether we said anything about Swordsages or Crusaders because the player wanted to be a Warblade anyway, but it's probably reasonable to treat them the same way, or to have them ready and recover as normal but IL is fixed at 3/4 level.
Treat all Iron Heart associated weapons as martial weapons.
Can sleep in any armor without becoming fatigued.


Put up against a half-ogre, it has a similar unique ability (maneuver vs. stomp SLA), though the hobgoblin's is someone better. Hobgoblin also has the edge in stats (net +4 instead of +2). On the other hand, powerful build is much better than being able to sleep in armor and some minor skill bonuses. Compared to goliath the analysis is much the same, with equal stats, powerful build compared to the maneuver, and some assorted minor abilities for each.

[Shadowscale]

Thank you very much Jeff, would slapping the amphibious template on those two races keep them balanced?

And just for the sake of seeing if anyone would do it one last one. Wyrmling White dragon (tiny) Less levels this way, with its own set of challenges and benefits.

[Jeff the Green]

Thank you very much Jeff, would slapping the amphibious template on those two races keep them balanced?

I'd say it's fine. The amphibious template says that in an aquatic campaign it should be worth +1 LA, but that's stupid.


And just for the sake of seeing if anyone would do it one last one. Wyrmling White dragon (tiny) Less levels this way, with its own set of challenges and benefits.

That's in the compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192151-Community-Based-Monster-Classes-VII) too, along with blue, bronze, fang, gold, green, red, purple, pyroclastic, silver, styx, and wing. I think it handles the true dragons fairly well.

Actually, a lot of the things people have mentioned are in that compendium.

[Bhu]

Pixie/Frenzied Berserker for very obvious reasons.

[Shadowscale]

I'd say it's fine. The amphibious template says that in an aquatic campaign it should be worth +1 LA, but that's stupid.



That's in the compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192151-Community-Based-Monster-Classes-VII) too, along with blue, bronze, fang, gold, green, red, purple, pyroclastic, silver, styx, and wing. I think it handles the true dragons fairly well.

Actually, a lot of the things people have mentioned are in that compendium.

Not a wyrmling though, and it doesn't start tiny.

[atemu1234]

I'd like to run a Lich, though it's not exactly impractical.

One of the joys of Lesser Aasimar is that you qualify for things that require you to be humanoid!

[Eldan]

Eladrin and Lillend. I just love them both for their fluff, but I've never seen a really playable Eladrin. Plus, a lot of their stats don't even seem to represent the fluff all that well.

Of course, I don't even like the monster classes all that much. They never felt to me as if I was really playing the monster, just a class imitating it.

Edit: and Osyluth. Hell's KGB/Stasi/SS need more love.