Tricks for Whips

[Darksidebro]

Hello playgrounders! I had a character concept of a (mostly) martial based character who Dual-Wields Whips. With the 5e Whips dealing normal damage to creatures, being Finesse weapons, and having reach it seems like this could be an effective character build.

I was thinking that Ranger might be the best class for this, as it wouldn't need the extra protection that fighter provides from heavy armor, as I'd prefer to be at least 10 feet from enemies. Rangers also get access to Dual Wielding fighting style, as well as spells such as Hunter's Mark.

My question is this: Would this be an effective character? What tips or tricks can one pull off with double whips? Would there be any particular feats that would help out, and is Ranger the best option for this?

[Easy_Lee]

You'll have to take the dual wielder feat since whips are not light, so call that one a feat tax. You'll want pretty good stats, so you may not be able to pick up more feats than that. Let's just assume dual wielder since we know you'll need that.

The bad thing about whips is the low damage. You're losing 2 damage per hit vs a rapier, or 4.5 damage per hit vs a greatsword. With that in mind, I would think rogue might be the best for this build since you rely less on weapon dice and more on sneak attack. Unfortunately, you can't go rogue because they aren't proficient with whips. If your DM lets you, then it could be an interesting character. A whip + dagger might be best, since you can throw the dagger, make opportunity attacks at any distance just by "sheathing" your whip temporarily, and stay out of melee range most of the time while still sneak attacking. That said, crossbow expert rogue has more support.

Ranger would be okay. You get the TWF style and some interesting tactics from Hunter archetype. The downside is pretty much any way you could think of using this character would be better with a bow. Even whirlwind attack, which ought to give you a nice 10' radius attack, specifically specifies 5' in the text. Again, ask your DM how he feels about it.

Fighter would do fine damage, but would be better off with two rapiers or a polearm.

Currently, I don't think there's any way to optimize a whip character. It doesn't help that the whip's damage is low for its features.

[Naanomi]

They are not bad choices for a Battle Master, as they add extra damage (makes up for lower dice) and the reach helps the strategic value of many maneuvers. Best with shield I'd suppose.

Can also make some interesting moves with hordebreaker.

Outside of utility, there is something visually pleasing about a hasted EK flailing away 11 times with a pair of whips for a round.

[jkat718]

The idea of Ranger appeals to me thematically, in that the idea of a Beastmaster dual wielding whips makes me think of a ringmaster, and now I'm picturing a mustachio'd man running around the battlefield, yelling "Yah, yah! Have at ye, foul beasties!" while smacking everyone with his whips. :smalltongue:

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Paladin's Smites works well with whips to give extra oomph.

[odigity]

I was thinking that Ranger might be the best class for this, as it wouldn't need the extra protection that fighter provides from heavy armor, as I'd prefer to be at least 10 feet from enemies.

You may prefer that, but your enemies prefer to get closer. And unless you've got Polearm Master + Sentinel, they will.


They are not bad choices for a Battle Master, as they add extra damage (makes up for lower dice) and the reach helps the strategic value of many maneuvers. Best with shield I'd suppose.

That would be pretty dang awesome if you weren't limited to six Superiority Die. If it was more like 10-20, and if you could use more than one per turn, that would start to be real fun. Just stand in the middle with whip and shield and plate and be a melee battlefield controller with something other than another damn polearm.



Outside of utility, there is something visually pleasing about a hasted EK flailing away 11 times with a pair of whips for a round.

10 times:

Attack action (normal) -> 4 attacks
Attack action (Action Surger) -> 4 attacks
Bonus action (two weapon fighting) -> 1 attack
Special single-attack action (Haste) -> 1 attack

And yes, that'd be interesting if it did something other than a few pts of dmg each time.


Paladin's Smites works well with whips to give extra oomph.

Definitely amusing.

I Smite you! *crack*
And a Smite to you as well! *crack*

[Regulas]

Just because it bothers me. You should for fluff at least make your whips bladed or spike on the end or Urumi or something to explain how you are so readily killing people. Cause a plain regular whip isn't even really a weapon.

[Quarterling]

I'm thinking of a whip mastery feat giving people the option similar to great weapon master but instead of taking the -10 for more damage you take a -5 on an attack to trip someone or turn their speed to zero it'd probably be a contested roll thing

a dual wield assassin using this with an off-hand dagger or rapier could do massive damage by tripping them then running in due to the auto-crit feature and backstab

Does anyone else thinks the whip could use a feat of some type?

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

An opportunity attack added to such a feat would be nice.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Here, let's just make one:

Whip Master Feat:

-While you are wielding a whip, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
-Before you make an attack with a whip, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, and if the target is Large or smaller, it must make a Strength saving throw (DC is 8+ Proficiency+DEX or STR). On a failed save, you may choose to knock the target prone or grapple the target. As long as the target is grappled, the whip cannot be used to attack and the target may be knocked prone as a bonus action, STR saves.

Other possible adds: Increasing whip damage to 1d6, explicitly allow acrobatic maneuvers using the whip like swinging across pits.

[Laserlight]

Just because it bothers me. You should for fluff at least make your whips bladed or spike on the end or Urumi or something to explain how you are so readily killing people. Cause a plain regular whip isn't even really a weapon.

My understanding is that it wasn't hard to kill people with the Cossack knout; the first blow could be fatal, if the wielder so desired. Granted, that's against an unarmored victim.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Totally thought there would be more House of Cards references because of the title...

[Jws89]

Hello playgrounders! I had a character concept of a (mostly) martial based character who Dual-Wields Whips. With the 5e Whips dealing normal damage to creatures, being Finesse weapons, and having reach it seems like this could be an effective character build.

I was thinking that Ranger might be the best class for this, as it wouldn't need the extra protection that fighter provides from heavy armor, as I'd prefer to be at least 10 feet from enemies. Rangers also get access to Dual Wielding fighting style, as well as spells such as Hunter's Mark.

My question is this: Would this be an effective character? What tips or tricks can one pull off with double whips? Would there be any particular feats that would help out, and is Ranger the best option for this?


I like the idea of blade pact warlock. Yes you give up a D8 Raiper (just using one handed weapons with finesse in this logic) for a D4 Whip, that sucks. However by level 12 you can pick two invocations; the first will let you attack twice (5th level blade pact prerequisite), the second will let you add charisma (12th level blade pact prerequisite). You only need one hand and by level 12, no feats needed, you can do 1D4+5+5x2 (if you didn't throw off DEX). The cool thing is you have a free hand the whole time to cast your eldritch blast, still have four invocation left over to boost your eldritch and other techniques, and you stay out of the Frey with the whips reach feature. That needs zero DM approval. If you ask your DM you might be able to use the invocation that grants two attacks to attack once then disarm with the second or vice versa. Doing 1D4+2 then disarming a NPC in one turn by level 5 isn't too bad, especially if your rogue is about ready to jump in and strike.

The part that my DM is working with me one is a DEX base 10ft grapple. Hold down a leg or disarm a NPC. I make an attack against their DEX save, then the NPC makes strength checks to get out of it if I decided to grapple, with a +0 strength modifier I just disarm. His checks are at a disadvantage if he is in reach of another enemy's attack.

Just makes my warlock a little more versatile and entertaining. More than just shooting edlritch blast after eldritch blast. Your DM should work with you on using it to climb or comically grab something with the whip, preferably out of someones hand. Maybe that leads to a tavern brawl IDK.

Oh yeah there is also HEX!!! An extra D6 and disadvantage on the strength checks if and when I grapple, yes please.

[Fishyninja]

Just because it bothers me. You should for fluff at least make your whips bladed or spike on the end or Urumi or something to explain how you are so readily killing people. Cause a plain regular whip isn't even really a weapon.

Nit-picking a little here but if you look at the Oxford English Dictionary it states a weapon as being a A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

Yes a barbed whip or Urumi would do more damage than say a regular bull whipe but you could still use it as a improvised garrotte.

[gfishfunk]

They are not bad choices for a Battle Master, as they add extra damage (makes up for lower dice) and the reach helps the strategic value of many maneuvers. Best with shield I'd suppose.

Can also make some interesting moves with hordebreaker.

Outside of utility, there is something visually pleasing about a hasted EK flailing away 11 times with a pair of whips for a round.

My first tank was a Fighter Battlemaster + Rogue Dip, Shield Master Whip user. It gave me plenty of mobility, let me trip someone at 10' or do otherwise good stuff. The loss in damage is very slight when you are going to use a shield either way, about 2 per hit attack on average.

[tieren]

If you went with the UA primeval guardian ranger you could do it as a tree man with an extra 5 feet of reach and all enemies having to cover difficult terrain to get to or away from you.

The area you could effect with the large size and increased range would be massive.

[Newtonsolo313]

Shilleigh gives it a d8 damage die while retaining its reach characteristic
BTW i think whips are balanced weirdly IMO i think they should either bump the damge die up to d6 or make it a light weapon

[DivisibleByZero]

Before today, my daughter was three years old when last this thread was active.
She is five now.

[Newtonsolo313]

Before today, my daughter was three years old when last this thread was active.
She is five now.


huh didn't notice that it got necro'd

[SpawnOfMorbo]

huh didn't notice that it got necro'd

I, yet again, thought this thread was about a House of Cards type character...

DAMN YOUR NECRO EYES!!!!!*






(*no one in particular really, I just find this all to be hilarious).

[Finback]

I have to admit, I've been thinking of something similar using a Kor ranger, and spiked chains (since they are pretty much entirely about grapply-hook-fighting).

[tieren]

Shilleigh gives it a d8 damage die while retaining its reach characteristic
BTW i think whips are balanced weirdly IMO i think they should either bump the damge die up to d6 or make it a light weapon

Shillelagh only works on clubs and staves.

[Biggstick]

If you really want to utilize a Whip well, you need Spell Sniper and either GFB or BB.

Whips aren't a big damage die themselves, but they have reach and count as a melee weapon. You can utilize this in a big way with the Rogue chassis. You should be looking to be a primary Rogue who has somehow gained martial weapons proficiency (either by working it out with your DM or dipping into a class that has it) and the ability to cast spells (needed to take the Spell Sniper feat). Utilize the extra damage from the damage cantrips, Sneak Attack dice, and enjoy your coolness factor!

[Fishyninja]

If you really want to utilize a Whip well, you need Spell Sniper and either GFB or BB.

Whips aren't a big damage die themselves, but they have reach and count as a melee weapon. You can utilize this in a big way with the Rogue chassis. You should be looking to be a primary Rogue who has somehow gained martial weapons proficiency (either by working it out with your DM or dipping into a class that has it) and the ability to cast spells (needed to take the Spell Sniper feat). Utilize the extra damage from the damage cantrips, Sneak Attack dice, and enjoy your coolness factor!

Instead of spell sniper they could Archetype into an Arcane Trickster. If I recall BB and GFB are wizard cantrips so are valid. That way they can save an ASI or get a different feat.

[Biggstick]

Instead of spell sniper they could Archetype into an Arcane Trickster. If I recall BB and GFB are wizard cantrips so are valid. That way they can save an ASI or get a different feat.

See but BB and GFB have a range of 5'. We're wanting to utilize the reach on Whips, so to do that and still use the cantrips, we need Spell Sniper.

The reason we need Spell Sniper is it doubles the range on any spell in which we make an attack roll. Since BB and GFB are technically spells and we're making an attack roll, the 5' range is doubled to 10', which also happens to be the range of our Whip!

The Arcane Trickster archetype definitely lends itself to this play though. One of the requirements to take Spell Sniper is the ability to cast at least one spell. This means that if you're going any of the other Rogue archetypes, you have to be able to cast a spell from some other source prior to grabbing Spell Sniper. What's nice is Spell Sniper can be used to grab BB or GFB, so as long as you find some other way to be able to cast spells (certain racial abilities, or dipping into a spell casting class).

[Fishyninja]

See but BB and GFB have a range of 5'. We're wanting to utilize the reach on Whips, so to do that and still use the cantrips, we need Spell Sniper.
Of course I forgot the spell range. My apologies


The Arcane Trickster archetype definitely lends itself to this play though. One of the requirements to take Spell Sniper is the ability to cast at least one spell. This means that if you're going any of the other Rogue archetypes, you have to be able to cast a spell from some other source prior to grabbing Spell Sniper. What's nice is Spell Sniper can be used to grab BB or GFB, so as long as you find some other way to be able to cast spells (certain racial abilities, or dipping into a spell casting class).
High elf would work as you get a cantrip as a racial ability also if you dipped this with Rogue, technically you could benefit from Sneak Attack too.

[Quoxis]

Just because it bothers me. You should for fluff at least make your whips bladed or spike on the end or Urumi or something to explain how you are so readily killing people. Cause a plain regular whip isn't even really a weapon.

You obviously know nothing about "plain regular whip"s. ****'s dangerous if handled by someone who knows how.
Also we're talking about a reality where you can viciously mock monsters to death.

[Quoxis]

The bad thing about whips is the low damage. You're losing 2 damage per hit vs a rapier, or 4.5 damage per hit vs a greatsword. With that in mind, I would think rogue might be the best for this build since you rely less on weapon dice and more on sneak attack. Unfortunately, you can't go rogue because they aren't proficient with whips. If your DM lets you, then it could be an interesting character. A whip + dagger might be best, since you can throw the dagger, make opportunity attacks at any distance just by "sheathing" your whip temporarily, and stay out of melee range most of the time while still sneak attacking. That said, crossbow expert rogue has more support.

Ranger would be okay. You get the TWF style and some interesting tactics from Hunter archetype. The downside is pretty much any way you could think of using this character would be better with a bow. Even whirlwind attack, which ought to give you a nice 10' radius attack, specifically specifies 5' in the text. Again, ask your DM how he feels about it.

Fighter would do fine damage, but would be better off with two rapiers or a polearm.

Currently, I don't think there's any way to optimize a whip character. It doesn't help that the whip's damage is low for its features.

Just clearing this up:
"Proficiency" means you're good with something. It does not mean you can't use it if you're not proficient.
You can wear armor you're not proficient with, but suffer disadvantages (no casting for example), and with weapons it's even less severe: you can wield a whip, but you don't add your proficiency bonus. You can still sneak attack with it, you can't dual wield without the feat though.

[Potato_Priest]

One thing I have always wanted to do is build a charger feat rogue using a whip. Normally, charger sucks as a feat because most martials have limited options for gaining the benefits multiple times in a fight, and they have to sacrifice extra attack to use it. A rogue with a whip, however, can charge and disengage without penalty, and only gets one attack per round anyways.

[TripleD]

Didn't see this thread back in 2014, and I'm surprised to see that someone else had the idea of a whip wielding Paladin. I'm currently doing just that as a level 4 "Stealth" Paladin who duel wields a whip and dagger.

I maxed out DEX and, between studded leather, Defense fighting style, and the bonus from the Duel Wielder feat, I'm at 17 AC, which isn't too shabby. I went variant human and grabbed Sentinel, so there's been plenty of times they didn't even get close enough to hit me.

Damage is low. Hunter's Mark and Smiting help make up for that, but it's a small pool to draw from. But I don't focus on direct damage. The cool thing about whips is that you can shove from a distance, meaning on a failure you don't have to worry about incurring an attack of opportunity to run away. I have my character dart in and out of combat, using my proficiency with athletics to trip them so that my damage dealing allies can take full advantage.

[Quoxis]

Didn't see this thread back in 2014, and I'm surprised to see that someone else had the idea of a whip wielding Paladin. I'm currently doing just that as a level 4 "Stealth" Paladin who duel wields a whip and dagger.

I maxed out DEX and, between studded leather, Defense fighting style, and the bonus from the Duel Wielder feat, I'm at 17 AC, which isn't too shabby. I went variant human and grabbed Sentinel, so there's been plenty of times they didn't even get close enough to hit me.

Damage is low. Hunter's Mark and Smiting help make up for that, but it's a small pool to draw from. But I don't focus on direct damage. The cool thing about whips is that you can shove from a distance, meaning on a failure you don't have to worry about incurring an attack of opportunity to run away. I have my character dart in and out of combat, using my proficiency with athletics to trip them so that my damage dealing allies can take full advantage.

I feel like the whip deserves way more love than it currently does. It's a finesse weapon with reach, and, like you said, this opens up possibilities for Dex characters that only polearm- and lance wielders have aside from them, the main benefit being the ability to attack/shove/do whatever and slipping away without provoking opportunity attacks. Make a wood elf fighter (battle master) prioritizing Dex, give him light/medium armor, two whips and the mobile and dual wielder feats, and you have a hit&run character to be reckoned with. Disengage without having to take an action simply by moving, attacking twice, possibly using maneuvers with both hits, and then get the hell away out of melee range of the other guy. Your extra attack is at least as good as the one PAM gives, and though your main attack is less effective, you can make up for it with a higher AC and flavor points.

[cannonheads]

Hello playgrounders! I had a character concept of a (mostly) martial based character who Dual-Wields Whips. With the 5e Whips dealing normal damage to creatures, being Finesse weapons, and having reach it seems like this could be an effective character build.

I was thinking that Ranger might be the best class for this, as it wouldn't need the extra protection that fighter provides from heavy armor, as I'd prefer to be at least 10 feet from enemies. Rangers also get access to Dual Wielding fighting style, as well as spells such as Hunter's Mark.

My question is this: Would this be an effective character? What tips or tricks can one pull off with double whips? Would there be any particular feats that would help out, and is Ranger the best option for this?

it seems like your best bet is to 1 level variant human fighter with sentinel feat and do the rest rogue. don't worry about dual weilding. if you really want to do it at like lvl 8... if you really really want to try it at lvl 5(1 fighter/ 4 rogue).

the sentinel feat lets you actually use the whip pretty well. because you can cover a ~25' sphere in the middle of the battlefeild, you force opponents to take opportunity attacks and deal more sneak attack damage more regularly.

a weirder option that you might try, is bladesinger, again don't dual wield. you could continue down that weird path and start leveling arcane trickster. at 5th level you will be1 damage behind (using scag cantrips unless the target moves) and at higher levels you will be ahead.

a super weird option is human variant dual wielder, warlock, taking no more than 3 levels in warlock. you get up to the point where the 'lock lets you manifest magic weapons and ignore the need for proficiency. then you jump back into rogue. this will let you use darkness devil sight combo and use the arcane trickster/hex to catch up most of the damage. this *seems* a bit mad but its do able, the trick is remembering that you don't actually need either casting stat... if you want one for skill purposes knock yourself out but its not neccesary. sentinel works great for this one too, just, probably want to wait till after your asi @ lvl6-7 to get it at level 10 or 11 or later.

anyway, i realize this is late coming and people have probably answered similarly later in the thread but i didn't see this first page and thought it aught to be out there.

[seilland]

With the kensi monk available now it might be a good choice for them