Duergar starting race

[Regulas]

So I was wondering what Duergar should get for a starting race. I would assume to base it off Drow essentially along with the Duergar excerpt from the PHB, of cource I don't even have my book on me atm so kind of just guessing so far. EDIT: updated the stats.

Dwarf traits as base of course with sub-race:

Duergar:
Stat bonus: +1... still unsure about this one personally I like Int since Wis is already covered for dwarves, but maybe Dex to be sneakier.
Superior Darkvision: 120ft
Low Light sensitivity
Duergar spell casting: At level 3 1/ day Invis, at level Five 1/day Enlarge, both self only.
Tool Proficiency: With Poison kits/application
Proficiency: On saves against illusions/enchantments

[Easy_Lee]

They're stated to have some natural abilities in psionics and were once enslaved by illithids. So I'd give them resistance to psychic damage in lieu of bonus proficiency.

[Regulas]

They're stated to have some natural abilities in psionics and were once enslaved by illithids. So I'd give them resistance to psychic damage in lieu of bonus proficiency.

By traditional lore yes, though 5e unless there is something else in one of the other books doesn't have any of that yet, as all I've seen is that one excerpt.

[Gwendol]

It's a dwarf subrace, so should be based on dwarves and add sunlight sensitivity, and a CHA penalty (but keep the CON bonus). They have the ability to grow in size once per short rest, and become invisible once per short rest. Duergar are resistant to attacks on the mind and so have advantage on a bunch of saves (in addition to dwarven traits).

The duergar entry in the MM have the above listed spell-like abilities and some saving throw advantages.

[Inevitability]

It's a dwarf subrace, so should be based on dwarves and add sunlight sensitivity, and a CHA penalty (but keep the CON bonus).

No penalties in 5e!

[Regulas]

It's a dwarf subrace, so should be based on dwarves and add sunlight sensitivity, and a CHA penalty (but keep the CON bonus). They have the ability to grow in size once per short rest, and become invisible once per short rest. Duergar are resistant to attacks on the mind and so have advantage on a bunch of saves (in addition to dwarven traits).

The duergar entry in the MM have the above listed spell-like abilities and some saving throw advantages.

5e doesnt use penalties, and given all comparisons would have a stat bonus +1 at minmium.

Could give it proficiency on mind-affecting saves but that could be too strong on top of everything else.

Also racial spell-like abilities (for starting races at least) are per long rest. And the level difference is to make ti so you are not getting too many too strong spells right away.

[Selkirk]

i love duergar :smallcool:. good starting point might be how they handled eladrin vs regular elves in dmg. http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/DMG_286.pdf 'The elf subraces in the Player’s Handbook include
an ability score increase, a weapon training feature, and two or three additional traits.'

+ to intelligence sounds like a good start to me...but probably would want to keep some con bonus. +1 to hit with crossbows or something flavorful with weapons. poisoning would be a good trait for duergar.

[Gwendol]

The Duergar are specifically called out living a life of toil. A low charisma fits with their close to automaton way of life.
Their ability to grow in size and to become invisible is part of the lore, so can't see how to get away from that.

[Regulas]

The Duergar are specifically called out living a life of toil. A low charisma fits with their close to automaton way of life.
Their ability to grow in size and to become invisible is part of the lore, so can't see how to get away from that.

Well I included those two as racial spells from the get-go

As for the charisma, as has been noted 5e just doesn't do penalties. I mean just avoid char classes or keep it low will suffice in any event.

[Easy_Lee]

As for the charisma, as has been noted 5e just doesn't do penalties. I mean just avoid char classes or keep it low will suffice in any event.

To add to this, if races can optionally include penalties, it follows that they would get something nice in exchange for that penalty. That would encourage people to create optimal races (for instance, int and str penalties mean nothing to most classes). I'd just as soon not have people start munchkinning their custom races.

[burninatortrog]

Dwarf Subrace: Duergar
Ability Score increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 1.
Superior Darkvision
Sunlight Sensitivity
Duergar Magic: You can become enlarged as in enlarge/reduce for one round or become invisible as in invisibility for one minute. Once you use this ability, you can't use it again until you complete a short or long rest.

[Gwendol]

Ok, another try then.

Duergar, Dwarf subrace.
In addition to the traits shared with other dwarves, Duergar gain the following:
Ability score increase: WIS +1
Duergar resilience: in addition to the advantage on saving throws vs poison shared with other dwarves, duergar also have advantage against charms and illusions, and resistance vs charms and paralyzation
Superior darkvision
Sunlight sensitivity
Duergar do not receive dwarven weapons training
Duergar are proficient with smith's tools or mason's tools

Enlarge: as an action the duergar can grow in size to become Large for one minute, gaining advantage on strength checks and saving throws and doubling strength-based weapon attack damage

Invisible: as an action the duergar can turn invisible. This invisibility lasts for one hour, or until the duergar attacks, casts a spell, enlarges, or until its concentration is broken.

The above abilities are useable once per long rest.