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Dark Knight Renee
2007-03-26, 03:52 PM
Fishing around in the XPH and the SRD, I haven't been able to figure out whether Psicrystals gain abilities from a master's psionic PrCs or not.

Firstly, this entry from the Psicrystal text is both specific and vague:

Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities.

Now, most of the PrCs are fairly clear in mentioning that the character's psicrystal does not, in fact, improve.

Powers Known: At every level indicated on the table, the character gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of elocater to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

This makes no sense whatsoever, since Psionic PrCs are still psionic classes, and the Psicrystal comes from a feat, not a class feature linked to a specific class.
HOWEVER, the particular PrC I'm considering actually fails to include the statement about not gaining Psicrystal powers, and furthermore gains a new Psicrystal related power.


Powers Known: At every even-numbered level, a metamind gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of metamind to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

Cognizance Psicrystal (Ex): At 2nd level, a metamind masters the trick of storing excess power points in a psicrystal. The psicrystal is now treated as a cognizance crystal capable of storing 5 power points, in addition to its psicrystal abilities. At every even-numbered level, a metamind becomes able to store an additional 2 power points in his psicrystal, to a maximum of 11 points at 8th level.

Although I could assume that just because it failed to mention it doesn't mean the same rule doesn't apply, and therefore that the Psicrystal gains nothing at all from Metamind levels. However, I could also interpret the rules to mean that the Metamind does get Psicrystal progression, at least on the levels that increase manafester level. Is there any official ruling, or am I missing something? Because the RAW doesn't seem to agree, at least it doesn't look like it to me.

NEO|Phyte
2007-03-26, 03:55 PM
IIRC, in 3.0 the psicrystal was a class ability. My money is on shoddy 3.0 -> 3.5 conversion.

marjan
2007-03-26, 04:01 PM
It doesn't gain abilities since it falls under other benefits of the class. The fact that particular class doesn't mantion iy is just typo.

pestilenceawaits
2007-03-26, 04:12 PM
I would rule any psionic class that doesn't specifically disallow improvement does improve it by default.

NEO|Phyte
2007-03-26, 04:14 PM
It doesn't gain abilities since it falls under other benefits of the class. The fact that particular class doesn't mantion iy is just typo.
That doesn't change the fact that the Psicrystal is a feat, not a class ability.

A wizard's Summon Familiar ability is not improved by the majority (if not all) of the arcane PrCs. If that wizard were to take the feat Obtain Familiar (or whatever its named), it would look at all of his levels in arcane classes to determine abilities, not just the wizard levels.

:edit: Thinking about it, would you also prevent arcane PrCs from advancing the progression of an Obtain Familiar familiar? After all, they explicitly say they don't advance familiars, right?
edited this in while you posted, ignore

marjan
2007-03-26, 04:22 PM
Oh, right. I thought that Psicrystal was Psion's class feature. Sorry.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-26, 04:34 PM
Also note that the PrC Dark Knight Renee is considering requires Psicrystal Affinity as a prerequisite. So of course they caught that.

Anyway, I'm with NEO—it's shoddy conversion. Psicrystals are not a class ability anymore.

Dark Knight Renee
2007-03-26, 04:37 PM
'K. That does seem to be the most logical answer. Thanks!:smallsmile:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-26, 07:22 PM
'K. That does seem to be the most logical answer. Thanks!:smallsmile:
Okay. Sounds good, but you have to be sure your DM agrees with you if you're a player. If you are the DM, well you just have to agree with yourself. :smallwink:

Dark Knight Renee
2007-03-26, 09:29 PM
Lol. I'm the DM... but I'd better make a note somewhere so I don't forget.



Edit: Oh, another question, less urgent right now by still worth asking because I'm not entirely sure... Would the Psicrystal count all levels of the PrC, or just the ones which increase manifester level etc?

The Valiant Turtle
2007-03-26, 09:41 PM
The relevant text from the SRD:


Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities.

As this is the primary source, I would say it advances every level in any psionic class regardless of what that class says, since so many of them were extremely poor 3.0 -> 3.5 conversions.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-26, 09:43 PM
That's how I figured it. But what trips me up is:

What counts as a psionic class? Does it have to directly grant power points at some point, or could, say, granting Wild Talent as a bonus feat at first level qualify as a psionic class? I mean, the power points aren't exactly a class ability. They just stem from a feat.

storybookknight
2007-03-26, 10:29 PM
The difference is: If you are a Telepath 3/Wilder 3, you have the psicrystal of a 3rd-level telepath.

However, if you are a Telepath5/Metamind1 (or whatever would be appropriate for prereqs) you would have the psicrystal of a 6th level telepath. It's specifically based on manifester level in the table, so choose the character's maximum manifester level.

A class that does not grant psionic powers (and thus, a ML) does not qualify you for Psicrystal or grant you powers related to their use.

Dark Knight Renee
2007-03-27, 07:03 AM
Actually, I do believe a Psion/Wilder gets a 6th level Psicrystal, unless your refering to something other than the Psion Telepathy discipline...

My current question involves whether the levels of a PrC which grants only partial progression of powers (every other level) counts only on the levels where you get improved manifesting, or on all levels.