Sorcadin Build Advice

[atemu1234]

My player asked for help building a Gish Sorcerer, when he realized his Battle Sorcerer kind of... sucked. So I gave him build advice. I advised the following build:

Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 2 / Eidoloncer 2 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist X. (we're at 15, so currently Sacred Exorcist 3)

What does the playground think, and how can I improve it?

[Nightraiderx]

Why sacred exorcist? Why no Jade Pheonix Mage? What's an Eidolancer?

what books are available?

(edit) wait eidolancer is for ghost spellcaster's isn't it? what does he plan on using ghost for?

[(Un)Inspired]

What about something super simple like sorcerer 10/rainbow servant 10?

[Optimator]

Seems like a good Sorcadin to me.

[(Un)Inspired]

Seems like a good Sorcadin to me.

The best sorcadins don't actually have any paladin levels.

[Synar]

What about something super simple like sorcerer 10/rainbow servant 10?

Excellent idea on how to be a great sorcadin ... at level 20. I would pass. Seriously, I find the Rainbow Servant is actually mostly nice on paper.

[(Un)Inspired]

Excellent idea on how to be a great sorcadin ... at level 20. I would pass. Seriously, I find the Rainbow Servant is actually mostly nice on paper.

Well, obviously you can finish your RS levels before 20th level. the 10/10 build is just for formatting simplicity.

[Petrocorus]

My player asked for help building a Gish Sorcerer, when he realized his Battle Sorcerer kind of... sucked. So I gave him build advice. I advised the following build:

Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 2 / Eidoloncer 2 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist X. (we're at 15, so currently Sacred Exorcist 3)

What does the playground think, and how can I improve it?

What's an Eidoloncer?
Do you use 3.5, PF or 3.P?

What are your book restrictions?

[atemu1234]

What's an Eidoloncer?
Do you use 3.5, PF or 3.P?

What are your book restrictions?

3.5 chassis, but all materials allowed. Sources, however, would be useful.

[Nightraiderx]

Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurrant champ 4.

loose 4 caster levels (so you won't get 9ths until lvl 21 OH NO THE HORROR)

Swiftblade is a web enhancement.
Abjurrant champ is from Complete Mage.

move fast, attack fast, swift action abjuration buffs, an extra standard action to play around with.
and burn spell slots for extra damage/attack/resist.

Bab will be 17, so there you have 4 attacks and a slightly better chasis than a battle sorcerer.

[Solaris]

The best sorcadins don't actually have any paladin levels.

Which would then make them not sorcadins. You really meant to say "The best gishes don't actually have any paladin levels".


What's an Eidoloncer?
Do you use 3.5, PF or 3.P?

What are your book restrictions?

Eidolancer is from Ghostwalk.

[Extra Anchovies]

The best sorcadins don't actually have any paladin levels.

What if they want Divine Grace? They'll need to go into one of the paladinesque classes/PrCs, and Paladin, conveniently enough, grants the ability at level 2 with no requirements other than alignment.

[Nightraiderx]

So.... he's an undead ghost that is granted himself turning for what reason exactly?

What flavor is the character using?

[atemu1234]

So.... he's an undead ghost that is granted himself turning for what reason exactly?

What flavor is the character using?

Fun fact; if you're resurrected, they actually give you a choice about the 'life epiphany'. So he can have the levels and be alive, but he had to have been a ghost for two levels.

[(Un)Inspired]

What if they want Divine Grace? They'll need to go into one of the paladinesque classes/PrCs, and Paladin, conveniently enough, grants the ability at level 2 with no requirements other than alignment.

I suppose it's a matter of the difference better sorcadin flavor and actually needing to mechanically have both classes but I see your point.

[Petrocorus]

I suppose it's a matter of the difference better sorcadin flavor and actually needing to mechanically have both classes but I see your point.

You can make many other gish bit, some clearly better. But how many would have the same flavor without using the Pally. Maybe a Crusadin. What else?

[(Un)Inspired]

You can make many other gish bit, some clearly better. But how many would have the same flavor without using the Pally. Maybe a Crusadin. What else?

By playing a character that can kick arse in melee, has access to some divine spells and follows a rigorous code of law and righteousness.

[Petrocorus]

By playing a character that can kick arse in melee, has access to some divine spells and follows a rigorous code of law and righteousness.

Yes, but if you use divine spells instead of arcane, you don't really have the same flavour than the sorcadin. Any Cleric or FavSoul can be a better Pally than the Pally, there's no question about that.
I meant do you have a build that really have the same flavour that the Sorcadin (righteous melee character, charismatic, with a code and using arcane) but better and without using Pally levels. Out of my mind, the only replacement i see would be using Crusader instead of Pally and Sha'Ir instead of Sorcerer.

[(Un)Inspired]

Yes, but if you use divine spells instead of arcane, you don't really have the same flavour than the sorcadin. Any Cleric or FavSoul can be a better Pally than the Pally, there's no question about that.
I meant do you have a build that really have the same flavour that the Sorcadin (righteous melee character, charismatic, with a code and using arcane) but better and without using Pally levels. Out of my mind, the only replacement i see would be using Crusader instead of Pally and Sha'Ir instead of Sorcerer.

Ahhhh I see what you're saying. Well if the code has to be mechanically part of the build then ya you seem to be right.

[Petrocorus]

Ahhhh I see what you're saying. Well if the code has to be mechanically part of the build then ya you seem to be right.

Not forcibly an actual feature of the class. The Crusader has an alignment requirement, but not a code. I just feel that if you build something from a Barbarian / Fighter, even if you add background stuff like a code of conduct and holy warrior stuff, that still don't feel the same. In addition, the emphasis on Charisma has an actual influence on the flavour of the character.

My question was not rhetorical, anyway. What build were you thinking about? I'm really interested, i'm collecting Paladin-like builds.

[(Un)Inspired]

Not forcibly an actual feature of the class. The Crusader has an alignment requirement, but not a code. I just feel that if you build something from a Barbarian / Fighter, even if you add background stuff like a code of conduct and holy warrior stuff, that still don't feel the same. In addition, the emphasis on Charisma has an actual influence on the flavour of the character.

My question was not rhetorical, anyway. What build were you thinking about? I'm really interested, i'm collecting Paladin-like builds.

I believe a bard fits all you're other requirement. They can be righteous, ruin people in melee and are certainly charismatic.

[Optimator]

My question was not rhetorical, anyway. What build were you thinking about? I'm really interested, i'm collecting Paladin-like builds.
I dunno if this helps, but I found this a while back.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i108/Lairdboy/paladinbuilds.jpg

[Petrocorus]

I dunno if this helps, but I found this a while back.

You found this? In my sig, maybe. This is my Excel worksheet.
You'd better look at the original, there are more builds.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Why sacred exorcist? Why no Jade Pheonix Mage? What's an Eidolancer?

what books are available?

(edit) wait eidolancer is for ghost spellcaster's isn't it? what does he plan on using ghost for?

Sacred Exorcist is 10/10 casting and 3/4 BAB, just enough to hit 16 BAB and caster level 18 for sorcerers if you go the standard Paladin 2/Sorc 4/ Abj Champ 5 build. It also gives Turn undead, which means access to Divine/Devotion feats, Law Devotion and Divine Might are pretty good, or if you want to be somewhat cheesy Divine Metamagic (needs Southern Magician or Alternative spell source to work though).

[(Un)Inspired]

You found this? In my sig, maybe. This is my Excel worksheet.
You'd better look at the original, there are more builds.

Hahahaha that's pretty great.

[Optimator]

You found this? In my sig, maybe. This is my Excel worksheet.
You'd better look at the original, there are more builds.

Haha I had a feeling. Yeah, someone posted it in a thread some time ago and I just saved it.

[Nightraiderx]

I just feel that the Knight Phantom Prc would be much more fitting thematic wise than (or on top of) Abjurrant champ.
It allows you to wear light armor spell-casting (mithral breastplate) some cool (per round) abilities and your very own
Ghost Horse to ride into the night on. I am AFB so I don't remember the prequisite exactly but I think it's just as easy to enter
as Abjurrant. I know Knight Phantom is from Eberron: 5 Nations I believe.

Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 2 / Eidoloncer 2 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist X/ Knight Phantom X

[darksolitaire]

When building optimized Gishes, it's pretty much unwritten rule that characters are supposed to get 9th level spells pre-epic (unless you're going full Swiftblade). First level of Knight Phantom loses caster level, so that means that Sorcerer based Gish misses out on 9th level spells.

[Extra Anchovies]

When building optimized Gishes, it's pretty much unwritten rule that characters are supposed to get 9th level spells pre-epic (unless you're going full Swiftblade). First level of Knight Phantom loses caster level, so that means that Sorcerer based Gish misses out on 9th level spells.

Eh. 8ths are fine for most games. Besides, most games don't even go to 20, so if he's losing three caster levels it's fine if he wants to spend another.