Fixing Dragonborn's Breath Weapon

[odigity]

Sure, 15' cone 2d6 with Save for half-damage is fun at level 1, but it quickly becomes irrelevent. Meanwhile, the other races get abilities, proficiencies, and even a feat that continues to deliver value.

Surely this needs to be fixed...

[BranMan]

Have it scale like cantrips? 4d6 at level 5, all the way up to 8d6 at level 17?

[Quarterling]

Have it scale like cantrips? 4d6 at level 5, all the way up to 8d6 at level 17?

this is by far the best option I'm not sure why this wasn't included in the book

[FadeAssassin]

this is by far the best option I'm not sure why this wasn't included in the book

It is:
"A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level."

[Easy_Lee]

It is:
"A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level."

I'd say 2d6, 4d6, 6d6, and 8d6. That makes it comparable to cantrips or a fighter's greatsword progression.

[Mechaviking]

Or it can be a bonus action again.

[GiantOctopodes]

I'd say 2d6, 4d6, 6d6, and 8d6. That makes it comparable to cantrips or a fighter's greatsword progression.

Yes, except those are single target, this affects everything in an area. At 8d6, it's the equivalent to Fireball (which hits *way* above its level as a 3rd level spell), which is fine, but it's once per short rest, so that's *quite* powerful at that point. If you're doing that, just be absolutely sure that the Dragonborn in question never gets their hand on a Dragon Mask.

[Jlooney]

Yes, except those are single target, this affects everything in an area. At 8d6, it's the equivalent to Fireball (which hits *way* above its level as a 3rd level spell), which is fine, but it's once per short rest, so that's *quite* powerful at that point. If you're doing that, just be absolutely sure that the Dragonborn in question never gets their hand on a Dragon Mask.

What does a dragon mask do?

[MadGrady]

What does a dragon mask do?

Makes you look scary.

I don't really know, I'm curious as well

[GiantOctopodes]

In addition to several other snazzy effects, it does this:
Dragon Breath: If you have a breath weapon that requires rest to recharge, it gains a recharge of 6.

A 15' cone fireball, usable once per 6 rounds? Now that's some serious firepower.

(Edited for formatting)

[Easy_Lee]

In addition to several other snazzy effects, it does this:
Dragon Breath: If you have a breath weapon that requires rest to recharge, it gains a recharge of 6.

A 15' cone fireball, usable once per 6 rounds? Now that's some serious firepower.

(Edited for formatting)

Edit: whoops, misread that. I still don't think it's too powerful at 8d6.

[MadGrady]

Seems not that much better than a 10 foot 4d12 poison cone, which is a cantrip. So the player gains an attack better than a cantrip, but only usable once per short rest/six rounds.

I thought recharge was when you roll a D6 - on a roll of recharge X it recharges. So couldn't this be way more than 6 rounds (with lucky rolls of course)

[odigity]

It is:
"A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level."

Wow, how did I miss that? Ok, given that it's also a cone, that's not terrible. Weird that it's not levels 5/11/17, though.

[GiantOctopodes]

Seems not that much better than a 10 foot 4d12 poison cone, which is a cantrip. So the player gains an attack better than a cantrip, but only usable once per short rest/six rounds.

What cantrip does that? You can't be referring to poison spray, as that says "You extend your hand toward a creature you can see within range and project a puff of noxious gas from your palm. The creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage." As it mentions nothing about a cone, and indicates you extend your hand towards a creature within range and that the creature (both singular) takes the poison damage, I can't see how anyone would read it as anything other than single target.

[Rallicus]

What does a dragon mask do?

Dragon mask is pretty OP, like pretty much everything else included in HOTDQ. I can't speak for Tiamat Lives, but HOTDQ has no idea what it's doing. Yet somehow it's still fun for players (though I can't offer my personal opinion, as I haven't run/played it).

Hazirawn? Lawd have mercy.

Anyway, Dragonborn's breath weapon doesn't need fixing. It's pretty solid. Not to mention that, according to Grandaddy Mearls, it can be used when shapeshifted.

Watch out for those fire-breathing mammoths.

[Easy_Lee]

What cantrip does that? You can't be referring to poison spray, as that says "You extend your hand toward a creature you can see within range and project a puff of noxious gas from your palm. The creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage." As it mentions nothing about a cone, and indicates you extend your hand towards a creature within range and that the creature (both singular) takes the poison damage, I can't see how anyone would read it as anything other than single target.

Whoops, misread that. Think I had it mixed up with an item.

[Koury]

Anyway, Dragonborn's breath weapon doesn't need fixing. It's pretty solid. Not to mention that, according to Grandaddy Mearls, it can be used when shapeshifted.

Watch out for those fire-breathing mammoths.

Wait, that's a thing? I have a Dragonborn Druid who asked about that and I went with no since she wouldn't have her Dragonborn-fire-making-bits when she was, say, a bear.

I actually don't have a major problem giving it to her though, if I should. Its 1/short rest.

[MadGrady]

Wait, that's a thing? I have a Dragonborn Druid who asked about that and I went with no since she wouldn't have her Dragonborn-fire-making-bits when she was, say, a bear.

I actually don't have a major problem giving it to her though, if I should. Its 1/short rest.

A wildshaped druid keeps all racial features. So yep, it's a thing by RAW.

Makes for a bad*** image though don't it :smalltongue:

[Koury]

A wildshaped druid keeps all racial features. So yep, it's a thing by RAW.

Makes for a bad*** image though don't it :smalltongue:

Cool, will make my player happy. Looking through my book now to see what made me think otherwise.

Hmm... Something something game stats replaced by creature something something can't take actions your form can't. I must have extrapolated that part about actions requiring hands being limited to what the new form can do to also include breath weapons. It does specifically say racial features are kept though, and I don't see it as a balance issue so... Yeah, player will be happy. :smallsmile:

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Increase damage once or twice, make it a bonus action , and/or take all those dragon breath feats and let them apply... Pick 1 or 2 per short or long rest... Breathing exercises to help you create a new breath ability.

Level 5: Damage 2d6, Learn 1 breath feature

Level 11: Bonus Action to activate, learn additional breath feature, may use both breath features.

Level 17: Damage 4d6, May use at-will w/1 breath feature


Breath Features

Shape: May change the shape of the breath weapon

Size: Increase Size of breath weapon

Healing: Breath weapon heals instead of harms (Positive Energy Dragons anyone?)

Conclusive: Push target 15' on failed save, 5' on save.

[Mellack]

What cantrip does that? You can't be referring to poison spray, as that says "You extend your hand toward a creature you can see within range and project a puff of noxious gas from your palm. The creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage." As it mentions nothing about a cone, and indicates you extend your hand towards a creature within range and that the creature (both singular) takes the poison damage, I can't see how anyone would read it as anything other than single target.

Another difference is poison spray is save and take they take nothing. The breath is save for half.

[bloodshed343]

Dragon sorcerers should get a feat to make their breath an arcane spell and let them apply metamagic to it.

Edit: and the feat also let's you cast a cantrip version of the breath. Half damage, no damage on a save, can be quickened, at-will.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Dragon sorcerers should get a feat to make their breath an arcane spell and let them apply metamagic to it.

Edit: and the feat also let's you cast a cantrip version of the breath. Half damage, no damage on a save, can be quickened, at-will.

I like to think that breath weapon isn't magical. Or at least I would prefer it that way. I need to read up on it though to see how 5e works it.

But no, that feat is way too specific for what 5e feats are. Maybe something like this.

Magical Breath
Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells, Breath Weapon

Effect: You may choose to use your breath weapon with a spell slot. The damage your breath weapon does is 2d6 if cast as a cantrip and +1d6 per spell slot level from 1st onward.

Any class features you have that effect spells (like the cleric or sorcerer has) can effect your breath weapon when you use a spell slot.

[bloodshed343]

Cantrips don't use spell slots. I would do it like this:

Magical Breath:
Prerequisite: ability to cast spells.

-You may use your breath weapon as a cantrip, at-will. When used as a cantrip, you cast it as normal, except it deals half damage on a failed save and no damage on a success. Any feature that affects cantrips affects your dragon breath when it's cast as a cantrip.Your dragon breath may be quickened.

-You may cast your dragon breath with a spell slot. It deals +1d6 damage per level of the spell slot used. Any feature that affects spells affects your dragon breath when cast this way.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Cantrips don't use spell slots. I would do it like this:

Magical Breath:
Prerequisite: ability to cast spells.

-You may use your breath weapon as a cantrip, at-will. When used as a cantrip, you cast it as normal, except it deals half damage on a failed save and no damage on a success. Any feature that affects cantrips affects your dragon breath when it's cast as a cantrip.Your dragon breath may be quickened.

-You may cast your dragon breath with a spell slot. It deals +1d6 damage per level of the spell slot used. Any feature that affects spells affects your dragon breath when cast this way.


Prerequisite needs to have "Breath Weapon", why? Because some people on this very forum would argue they can use a breath weapon they don't have because the ability doesn't say they need a breath weapon -_-...

But yeah, yours better reflects what I meant. I typed mine up a bit too fast.