Combos, Synergy, and Other DM Headaches

[Lord of Shadows]

Looking for suggestions (or a thread if this has already been done) on combos, synergy and other things that can create a significant advantage for a party in a Pathfinder rules campaign.

Things like: wearing Fogcutting Lenses (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/fogcutting-lenses) while Flying (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fly) inside an Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/obscuring-mist), or if high enough a Fog Cloud (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fog-cloud). A similar effect can be created using Darkness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/darkness), although Darkvision can defeat this version.

Thanks...
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[Barstro]

A Witch can use Waxen Image on a companion (rogue, for instance) to do a fastball special, since "This effect occurs on the witch’s turn and does not impede the creature’s actions on its turn", he can still do a full attack for lots of d6s.

A game I was just in had an Eidolon pouncing (full attack), Summoner recalling it to his side, and a Cavalier somehow granting the Eidolon another pouncing full attack.

Witch can use Magic Jar to take over the body of a strong melee PC (or NPC) and still use most hexes and many spells if she took eschew materials. DM fiat may allow; possession, spell of range: personal, de-possession, so that melee has spells he shouldn't have.

[Baroncognito]

The Headband of Ninjitsu (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/headband-of-the-ninjitsu) allows you to sneak attack enemies with total concealment. A Seeking weapon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/seeking) allows you to negate miss chances from concealment.

A Rogue using a bow can then drop a Smokestick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances#TOC-Smokestick) to gain total concealment and target the enemy with a seeking bow to do sneak attack damage.

This is really surprisingly helpful when enemies either have true seeing or see invisible (or are immune to illusions).

[Elricaltovilla]

Skalds give Barbarians, Bloodragers and anyone else with "rage" abilities free rounds of rage with no fatigue (plus free rage powers).

Stinking Cloud+Black Tentacles auto succeeds at grappling targets for the duration of the nausea effect.

If a target has multiple witch hexes on them at one time, cackle extends all of them, regardless of source. Meaning that if you have multiple witches, hexcaster maguses, or shamans you only need one of them to do the upkeep, allowing the others to spread the hurt further.

Butterfly's Sting lets a PC with a high crit chance (kukri, scimitar, anything with keen and 18-20 crit range) grant a crit to the next ally that attacks the same creature, such as the barbarian with scythe.

[CGNefarious]

I'm pretty sure rage song specifically says that rage powers cannot be used by allies who have been put into a rage by it. As a Bloodrager I had looked into that synergy and was disappointed by that ruling.

[Elricaltovilla]

I'm pretty sure rage song specifically says that rage powers cannot be used by allies who have been put into a rage by it. As a Bloodrager I had looked into that synergy and was disappointed by that ruling.

No, but you can use the Skald's rage powers that he gains by level up. Anyone benefitting from raging song gets access to them.

[CGNefarious]

Ah, I got you. That's actually a pretty cool mechanic.

[The Random NPC]

I'm pretty sure rage song specifically says that rage powers cannot be used by allies who have been put into a rage by it. As a Bloodrager I had looked into that synergy and was disappointed by that ruling.

I thought the rage song granted rage powers.

[Barstro]

If a target has multiple witch hexes on them at one time, cackle extends all of them, regardless of source. Meaning that if you have multiple witches, hexcaster maguses, or shamans you only need one of them to do the upkeep, allowing the others to spread the hurt further.

Nonsense.


A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

Unless that already broken hex has been errata'd.

[Lord of Shadows]

Stinking Cloud+Black Tentacles auto succeeds at grappling targets for the duration of the nausea effect.

This is nice, but is there any way to bump up the CMB? The spell uses the caster's level +5 (+4 STR and +1 Size), which isn't all that high. Only 13 for an 8th level caster.


Butterfly's Sting lets a PC with a high crit chance (kukri, scimitar, anything with keen and 18-20 crit range) grant a crit to the next ally that attacks the same creature, such as the barbarian with scythe.

That is a nice one.. team a Rogue up with a Tank (pick one) and watch the festivities begin.

[Lord of Shadows]

No, but you can use the Skald's rage powers that he gains by level up. Anyone benefitting from raging song gets access to them.


Ah, I got you. That's actually a pretty cool mechanic.

And Inspired Rage does not cause Fatigue when it ends.

[Abd al-Azrad]

This is nice, but is there any way to bump up the CMB? The spell uses the caster's level +5 (+4 STR and +1 Size), which isn't all that high. Only 13 for an 8th level caster.

The CMB becomes pretty close to irrelevant if an enemy is Nauseated. But you can't really boost your Tentacles' CMBs, you have to instead rely on reducing enemy CMDs. Fatigue wouldn't be a bad bet for lower levels. Dispelling their belt at higher levels would also be pretty powerful.

[Lord of Shadows]

The CMB becomes pretty close to irrelevant if an enemy is Nauseated. But you can't really boost your Tentacles' CMBs, you have to instead rely on reducing enemy CMDs. Fatigue wouldn't be a bad bet for lower levels. Dispelling their belt at higher levels would also be pretty powerful.

Hmmm... that makes pairing Black Tentacles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/black-tentacles) with Waves of Fatigue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-fatigue) sound interesting. And those are both on the Witch spell list, which could make things really interesting.
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[grarrrg]

I'm pretty sure rage song specifically says that rage powers cannot be used by allies who have been put into a rage by it. As a Bloodrager I had looked into that synergy and was disappointed by that ruling.I thought the rage song granted rage powers.

While under a Raging Song, you can ONLY use those Rage Powers granted by that Raging Song. You can NOT use your own Rage Powers unless you also spend Rage.
You CAN still use your normal STR/CON/whatever bonuses however.

[RolkFlameraven]

That is a nice one.. team a Rogue up with a Tank (pick one) and watch the festivities begin.

My wife and I are toying with a Swashbuckler using Butterfly sting combined with and a Brawler using pummeling style just for giggles. We haven't played it yet and will most likely forget about the whole idea by the time our current game is over but on paper is looks like fun.

[Extra Anchovies]

Alternately, pair Butterfly's Sting with Combat Reflexes and Seize the Moment to get a pile of AoOs against an enemy:

1. PC 1 hits, confirms critical hit
2. PC 1 passes critical on to PC 2
3. PC 2 makes AoO via Seize the Moment; AoO is critical hit; PC 2 passes critical on to PC 1
4. PC 1 makes AoO via Seize the Moment

Rinse and repeat until out of AoOs.

Butterfly's Sting is also good with TWF; carry a kukri and a pick. You are your own ally, after all.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Hmmm... that makes pairing Black Tentacles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/black-tentacles) with Waves of Fatigue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-fatigue) sound interesting. And those are both on the Witch spell list, which could make things really interesting.

The nice part about this tactic is that CMD is modified by both Str and Dex. So the Waves of Fatigue inflict a -2 penalty to CMD to all targets.

A more heavy-hitting, higher-level strategy is to use Waves of Exhaustion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-exhaustion), which of course you also likely noticed. -6 Str, -6 Dex, total -6 to CMD.

If you can somehow inflict the Entangled condition on an enemy as well (my ideal method, if you're planning to knock out an enemy in one turn with this tactic, would be to have your Familiar chuck a Tanglefoot Bag at them), that's another -4 Dex, so -2 CMD. Coupled with Exhaustion, you're managing -8 CMD, no save.

I was also slightly misleading when I said you can't boost your Black Tentacles' CMB. You have to do so by boosting your Caster Level, so Spell Specialization, possibly Spell Perfection, and other such CL-boosting tricks could further swing things in your favor.

[Lord of Shadows]

The nice part about this tactic is that CMD is modified by both Str and Dex. So the Waves of Fatigue inflict a -2 penalty to CMD to all targets.

A more heavy-hitting, higher-level strategy is to use Waves of Exhaustion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-exhaustion), which of course you also likely noticed. -6 Str, -6 Dex, total -6 to CMD.

If you can somehow inflict the Entangled condition on an enemy as well (my ideal method, if you're planning to knock out an enemy in one turn with this tactic, would be to have your Familiar chuck a Tanglefoot Bag at them), that's another -4 Dex, so -2 CMD. Coupled with Exhaustion, you're managing -8 CMD, no save.

I was also slightly misleading when I said you can't boost your Black Tentacles' CMB. You have to do so by boosting your Caster Level, so Spell Specialization, possibly Spell Perfection, and other such CL-boosting tricks could further swing things in your favor.

Yep, I noticed the higher level Waves also.

Looking at how to inflict the Entangled (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Entangled) condition, there are the following:


Attack with a Net (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/net) (Exotic ranged weapon) - Ranged touch attack, max range 10 ft., -4 on Dex, DC 20 Escape Artist or DC 25 Strength to escape

Spells: Entangle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/entangle) (of course), Fire of Entanglement (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fire-of-entanglement) (2nd level, Paladin only, Adv. Players Guide)

Feat: Shadow Grasp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/shadow-grasp-metamagic) (Metamagic) Any spell with the Darkness descriptor and an area of effect also entangles, allows Reflex save; Prerequisites: Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell

And as far as boosting the CMB of a spell through the caster level, there are these feats:


Spell Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-focus---final) - +1 to CL in one school of magic

Spell Specialization (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-specialization) - chose one spell in a Spell Focus school, +2 to CL for all level-variable effects of the spell; Prerequisite: Spell Focus

Heighten Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/heighten-spell-metamagic---final) - cast spell as though it were a higher level, thereby raising the DC

Spell Focus would certainly be useful, I'm not so sure about Spell Specialization. It only applies to one spell, and has to be taken again to apply to another spell.

[Abd al-Azrad]

...as far as boosting the CMB of a spell through the caster level, there are these feats:


Spell Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-focus---final) - +1 to CL in one school of magic

Spell Specialization (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-specialization) - chose one spell in a Spell Focus school, +2 to CL for all level-variable effects of the spell; Prerequisite: Spell Focus

Heighten Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/heighten-spell-metamagic---final) - cast spell as though it were a higher level, thereby raising the DC

Spell Focus would certainly be useful, I'm not so sure about Spell Specialization. It only applies to one spell, and has to be taken again to apply to another spell.

Not to be contrary, but I believe your interpretations of these feats are a little off.

First off, Spell Focus adds to the DC to save against spells of one school, which is typically great, but has no bearing on the CL-based variables of a spell - such as the CMB check of Black Tentacles and other grappling spells. Heighten Spell will similarly have no effect on the CL-based CMB check.

Second, Spell Specialization is lovely for this purpose if you are devoted to grappling, or CL-dependent spells. To quote,


Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that spell becomes your specialized spell.

So you can keep updating the feat to keep it relevant.

Other CL-boosters:

Mage's / Varisian Tattoo (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/feats/general-feats/varisian-tattoo) affects one school, +1 CL to that school.

Bloodmage Initiate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bloodmage-initiate) does the same, but forces you to live with a constant Medium load of encumbrance.

And again, Spell Perfection doubles the numeric bonuses from feats granted to one spell of your choice. So, all together, were you to pick up all four feats targeting Black Tentacles, or Telekinesis, or some other CL-dependent spell, you'd be enjoying (2+1+1)*2 = +8 to your CL (and CMB checks) for that spell.

Combo all that with the Exhaustion and Entangling effects described above, and you're looking at +8 to your check and -8 to the defender's CMD. It's a lot of work, but I think it's starting to look pretty terrifying for battlefield control.

[Lord of Shadows]

Not to be contrary, but I believe your interpretations of these feats are a little off.

Yes, you are right. I saw the +1 and glossed over the rest. That also led to thinking Heighten Spell would work. :smallcool:


Combo all that with the Exhaustion and Entangling effects described above, and you're looking at +8 to your check and -8 to the defender's CMD. It's a lot of work, but I think it's starting to look pretty terrifying for battlefield control.

Agreed. Coupled with a few other combos it could have a devastating effect on the battlefield.
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[Lord of Shadows]

I notice that Waves of Fatigue and Waves of Exhaustion are both in the Toil (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/artifice-domain/toil) domain (Sub-domain of Artifice (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/artifice-domain)), for those interested more in Divine casting than Arcane. The Toil domain also has an interesting 8th level power, Aura of Repetition: All enemies within this aura must make a Will save each round or repeat their action from the previous round (if possible).
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[Necroticplague]

Here's a fun combo I figured out:

Take the simple Extract, Touch Injection. On its own, its pretty 'meh'. Lets you get your own teamates with your extracts, but burns extra slots to do it with. Lets you target your enemies, but pretty much all of your extracts are buffs. However, then my devious mind found one exception: Skinsend. This extract is pretty much 'lesser astral projection'. One of the things that makes it lesser is that it reduces your to 0 HP, and you can't heal until your skin grows back. Normally, this is a bad thing. Combining these two? No save touch attack vs. being dropped to 0 HP. And since its a normal attack, it can be part of your full-attack routine, so your next few attacks can finish him off. Even if he survives (say, you whiff on your follow-up, despite probably having at least 3 attacks after this if you're an alchemist in melee), he still has to waste his standard returning himself to 50% HP. This combo get stronger as you level up without any more investment, and doesn't have any keywords or language to allow for immunity.

[Lord of Shadows]

Lemme see if I got this right...

You create an Extract of Skinsend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skinsend), and then cast Touch Injection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/touch-injection) to turn it into a touch attack? Then touch an enemy and the Skinsend affects them? It looks like you would have to hit fast, as it appears that the "target" can dismiss the spell, a standard action. Or, it also looks like if the skin/construct is killed while away the target is helpless at 0 HP.

That;s kinda... nasty.

I notice that Skinsend normally only affects the caster, not sure how that works with Touch Injection, have never played an Alchemist. Heard they can be a handful, though.
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[Necroticplague]

Lemme see if I got this right...

You create an Extract of Skinsend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skinsend), and then cast Touch Injection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/touch-injection) to turn it into a touch attack? Then touch an enemy and the Skinsend affects them? It looks like you would have to hit fast, as it appears that the "target" can dismiss the spell, a standard action. Or, it also looks like if the skin/construct is killed while away the target is helpless at 0 HP.

That;s kinda... nasty.

I notice that Skinsend normally only affects the caster, not sure how that works with Touch Injection, have never played an Alchemist. Heard they can be a handful, though.
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Yep, that's pretty much the long and short of it.A Hyde (close combat Alchemist) can have upwards of six natural attacks without even really trying, so getting in the 10 points of damage to kill the enemy after the Skinsend isn't that hard.

[Abd al-Azrad]

It's a well known trick, but Heroism + Rage (the spell) + a +2 Furious Courageous weapon gives you:

An effective +4 weapon
+4 Morale to attacks, saves and skill checks (more if you have Rage as a class feature)
+4 Morale to Strength and Con (further boosting your Fort save)

Total bonus of +10 to hit, +6 (or more THF) to damage, +4 all saves / +6 Fort, +2 HP/level. Pretty good for two 3rd-level buffs and a 32K weapon, particularly given Heroism's incredible duration. The whole combo activates with a single charge from a Wand of Rage.