Is my homebrew race balanced enough?

[dukeofwolfsgate]

So I'm currently building my own campaign setting with somewhat less Tolkienesque feel. I want to use 5e, and have decided to use some race options that either aren't available yet, or probably won't appear at all. One of these is a feline race, and I'm wondering if it is balanced enough for play. There aren't going to be elves in this setting, and I have liberally stolen from their base stats in the PH, and the 3.5e catfolk race. Here are the stats, under the placeholder name of "Catfolk".:smalltongue:

Catfolk Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
Age. Catfolk mature at 14 years of age and live for around 70 or 75 years.
Alignment. Most Catfolk are naturally more chaotic. Some do settle down for the quieter life but the tribe is always the Catfolk’s home. Most lean towards neutral on the other axis, having no interest in the affairs of state and the people in the lands they travel through, but some have a cruel streak, resulting in evil alignments.
Size. Catfolk stand between 4 and 5 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 35 feet, and base climb is 30 feet.
Darkvision. Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Keen Senses. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.
Claw Weapon. Your Unarmed Melee Attacks do 2 slashing damage plus Strength bonus (instead of 1 bludgeoning damage).
Superior Reflexes. You have resistance to bludgeoning damage taken from falling, and land on your feet if you did not drop below 1 hit point (as opposed to falling prone).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common. You can also speak the Catfolk language known as Feline (each tribe speaking a dialect), although there is no written from of this language.
Subrace. Catfolk commonly break down into two subraces: tribal and city.

Tribal Catfolk
Ability Score Increase. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Mask of the Wild. You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena.

City Catfolk
Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Mask of the City. You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by crowds, revealing fences, smoke, and other urban phenomena.


I'm worried that I may have given them too many traits to be balanced. What do you think?:smallsmile:

[Rallicus]

Seems okay. I don't think the base speed increase is really necessary though, even if it was a feature of the 3.5 catfolk.

Everything else seems cool, but it's hard to tell if it's overkill. Drop the city/tribal ability bonus, for sure. Maybe have the tribals have the perception bonus (indicating some sort of predator, like a lion) whereas the city one has the superior reflexes (indicating a housecat, or something along those lines). But not both.

[pwykersotz]

I think it looks fine for balance, but I might suggest removing a couple of the passive abilities and providing a few active ones. Humans with a feat, Elves with a Cantrip, Dragonborn with a Breath Weapon, these races have draw because they allow players to do something new. Try giving them a unique active ability. :smallsmile:

[Celcey]

They look fine to me.

[Triclinium]

Only thing I would suggest is differentiating the subraces more. At the moment they are virtually identical, and the choice of one over the other seems largely dependent on the setting.

[dukeofwolfsgate]

@pwykersotz
What if if replaced the subrace feature with this? Or made it the trait for the wild subrace rather than the Mask trait?

Pounce. When you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature right before hitting it with an unarmed attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC = 10 + your Str modifier) or be knocked prone.

That would be more in line with big cats in 5e. Would that be enough of an active ability? Should it have a rest restriction?

@Triclinium
I'm having trouble coming up with non-fluff differences between the two. Any ideas for the city subrace?

[Triclinium]

I think your pounce idea is a fantastic plan for the wild subrace, as a replacement for the mask ability. In terms of the city subrace, I'm kind of drawing a blank. Maybe something allowing movement through occupied squares unhindered as a result of superior agility? Perhaps something punny related to cats having 9 lives?

[Human Paragon 3]

I think your pounce idea is a fantastic plan for the wild subrace, as a replacement for the mask ability. In terms of the city subrace, I'm kind of drawing a blank. Maybe something allowing movement through occupied squares unhindered as a result of superior agility? Perhaps something punny related to cats having 9 lives?

The ability to move through non-hostile creature's squares without spending extra movement would be awesome.

The race seems well balanced to me. I would take a hard look at it next to wood elf to see how it stacks up. If it seems the same or a little weaker, keep the 35 foot movement. If it seems maybe a little stronger, drop it back down to 30. The 30 foot climb speed is a big boon BUT the phrasing should be "It does not cost extra movement to climb."

[dukeofwolfsgate]

Ok, here is a slightly revised version.

Catfolk Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
Age. Catfolk mature at 14 years of age and live for around 70 or 75 years.
Alignment. Most Catfolk are naturally more chaotic. Some do settle down for the quieter life but the tribe is always the Catfolk’s home. Most lean towards neutral on the other axis, having no interest in the affairs of state and the people in the lands they travel through, but some have a cruel streak, resulting in evil alignments.
Size. Catfolk stand between 4 and 5 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 35 feet, and base climb is 30 feet.
Darkvision. Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Keen Senses. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.
Claw Weapon. Your Unarmed Melee Attacks do 2 slashing damage plus Strength bonus (instead of 1 bludgeoning damage).
Superior Reflexes. You have resistance to bludgeoning damage taken from falling, and land on your feet if you did not drop below 1 hit point (as opposed to falling prone).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common. You can also speak the Catfolk language known as Feline (each tribe speaking a dialect), although there is no written from of this language.
Subrace. Catfolk commonly break down into two subraces: tribal and city.

Tribal Catfolk
Pounce. When you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature right before hitting it with an unarmed attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC = 10 + your Str modifier) or be knocked prone.

City Catfolk
Nine Lives. You can take the Disengage or Hide action as your bonus action on your turn.


Is the Nine Lives trait too much? Having played as a Shield Dwarf Fighter (Champion), I always found it frustrating when Goblins would deny me my AoO when they fled melee combat. Seems only fair that the players should have a retreating-attack option.

[Madfellow]

Is the Nine Lives trait too much?

Yes, it is. It's basically giving away a Rogue class feature. The other thing that concerns me is the climb speed, another Rogue class feature.

I liked the original version of the race just fine (minus the climb speed).

[Ghost Nappa]

The original Catfolk seems to be a re-fluffed Wood Elf with a few custom modifications.

I say give Tribal Catfolk proficiency in Perception and City Catfolk proficiency in a Charisma or Intelligence Skill. Tribal can get +1 CON (they're the more warrior type) and City should be either INT or CHA.

Definitely remove the climb speed, but you could totally give them a jumping bonus.

[badintel]

What about a scent ability? If I'm not mistaken there are some creatures that can treat scent like blindsight, I'm AFB or I could provide specifics...

[Felvion]

I don't always comment on homebrew threads but when i do...
I suggest you swap the standard 2 slashing unarmed damage into 1d4.
It just feels better to me.:smallcool:

[Madfellow]

I don't always comment on homebrew threads but when i do...
I suggest you swap the standard 2 slashing unarmed damage into 1d4.
It just feels better to me.:smallcool:

That's basically handing out the Tavern Brawler feat for free. As it stands, the ability is flavorful but not overpowered.

[Triclinium]

Since 9 lives is going a bit overboard, perhaps go with a bonus to charisma or advantage/proficiency on diplomacy checks? Something to do with feline grace?

[Ghost Nappa]

That's basically handing out the Tavern Brawler feat for free. As it stands, the ability is flavorful but not overpowered.

Actually, I'm not sure it's that bad an idea. Halfling essentially gets Lucky for free. Half-Elf essentially gets Skilled for free. It could work.

[Felvion]

That's basically handing out the Tavern Brawler feat for free. As it stands, the ability is flavorful but not overpowered.

He handles it out either way. I mean the difference between 2 and 1d4 is insignificant. It just feels more dnd to me rolling a dice to deal damage instead of having a fixed number.

[KiltieMacPipes]

If you made the Wild ones proficient with Perception, then I think the City ones should get Investigation. Same hunters, different hunt.

[Grayson01]

Ok, here is a slightly revised version.

Catfolk Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
Age. Catfolk mature at 14 years of age and live for around 70 or 75 years.
Alignment. Most Catfolk are naturally more chaotic. Some do settle down for the quieter life but the tribe is always the Catfolk’s home. Most lean towards neutral on the other axis, having no interest in the affairs of state and the people in the lands they travel through, but some have a cruel streak, resulting in evil alignments.
Size. Catfolk stand between 4 and 5 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 35 feet, and base climb is 30 feet.
Darkvision. Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Keen Senses. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.
Claw Weapon. Your Unarmed Melee Attacks do 2 slashing damage plus Strength bonus (instead of 1 bludgeoning damage).
Superior Reflexes. You have resistance to bludgeoning damage taken from falling, and land on your feet if you did not drop below 1 hit point (as opposed to falling prone).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common. You can also speak the Catfolk language known as Feline (each tribe speaking a dialect), although there is no written from of this language.
Subrace. Catfolk commonly break down into two subraces: tribal and city.

Tribal Catfolk
Pounce. When you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature right before hitting it with an unarmed attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC = 10 + your Str modifier) or be knocked prone.

City Catfolk
Nine Lives. You can take the Disengage or Hide action as your bonus action on your turn.


Is the Nine Lives trait too much? Having played as a Shield Dwarf Fighter (Champion), I always found it frustrating when Goblins would deny me my AoO when they fled melee combat. Seems only fair that the players should have a retreating-attack option.

I would change the Pounce DC to DC 8+STR MOd)

[unwise]

What about mad parkour skills for the city folks? An ability that lets them ignore urban terrain and maybe get climb speed for a turn every short rest. This would allow them to do a double move and avoid persuers or catch people easily. Leaping up fire escapes and diving from balcony to balcony etc.

[dukeofwolfsgate]

Well, here is what I think I'm going to go with. It incorporates a lot of the ideas you all had! I would like to thank everyone for their input, even if I didn't end up using it!:smallsmile:

Catfolk Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
Age. Catfolk mature at 14 years of age and live for around 70 or 75 years.
Alignment. Most Catfolk are naturally more chaotic. Some do settle down for the quieter life but the tribe is always the Catfolk’s home. Most lean towards neutral on the other axis, having no interest in the affairs of state and the people in the lands they travel through, but some have a cruel streak, resulting in evil alignments.
Size. Catfolk stand between 4 and 5 feet tall and have slender builds. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 35 feet. It does not cost you extra movement to climb.
Darkvision. Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Claw Weapon. You are proficient in Unarmed Melee Attacks and do 1 slashing damage, instead of bludgeoning damage.
Superior Reflexes. You have resistance to bludgeoning damage taken from falling, and land on your feet if you did not drop below 1 hit point (as opposed to falling prone).
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common. You can also speak the Catfolk language known as Feline (each tribe speaking a dialect), although there is no written from of this language.
Subrace. Catfolk commonly break down into two subraces: tribal and city.

Tribal Catfolk
Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 1.
Hunter. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.
Pounce. When you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature right before hitting it with an unarmed attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your Str modifier) or be knocked prone.

City Catfolk
Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Curious. You have proficiency in the Investigation skill.
Elusive. You may move through a hostile creature's space as though it were an ally, treating the space as though it were not difficult terrain. You still provoke attacks of opportunity when you leave that creature's reach.

[dukeofwolfsgate]

@unwise: That's a really cool idea! I think Elusive plus the new wording of the Speed will allow for pretty much that, even though it isn't spelled out.

[pwykersotz]

Cool, I hope you have fun with it!

[Ghost Nappa]

Pounce. When you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature right before hitting it with an unarmed attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your Str modifier + your Proficiency Bonus) or be knocked prone.


I would change Pounce to this, to make it consistent with most other effects given by classes like Fighter and Monk as well as Spell DCs.

Other than that, it looks very flavorful and everything makes a lot of sense. Very tempted to run it in a game.

[MaxWilson]

Actually, I'm not sure it's that bad an idea. Halfling essentially gets Lucky for free. Half-Elf essentially gets Skilled for free. It could work.

Halfling in no way gets Lucky feat. It's more like a global +1 all rolls, whereas Lucky gives advantage on the most important rolls (e.g. Failed saves).