PF: So Organised Play, What is this thing? Pro's and Con's?

[Katana1515]

I see a lot of reference to PFS play in pathfinder discussion threads, particularly on my odd wander through the Paizo forums and some of the PF class guides. I am vaguely aware that this seems to involve GM's running PF adventure paths 'by the book' so to speak with very little variation. Why exactly is this a thing? What additional bonus do i get as a GM for running a premade adventure exactly as written rather than customizing it on the fly to suit my whims (If i didn't have slightly depraved whims that i wanted to inflict on my players why would i volunteer to GM in the first place XD) or on a more serious note, customize it to better suit the interests and play-styles of my players and there PC's. Am I missing something obvious? I am running Rise of the Runelords for my group at the moment and its a blast, but I could never JUST use the book without throwing in the odd extra encounter or rebuilding the odd villain. How much of this type of tinkering is 'too much' for organised play?

What are peoples experiences of this type of game? Were they Positive or Negative experiences and why?

Thanks for all responses in advance!

[Renen]

PFS is basically GMs who run things by the book for this reason: when you come in to play, its often a "one shot".
So you come in, do a 4-5 hour adventure and thats it. But your chatacter is "saved" in between those. So think of it like doing quests in an MMO game.
They cant customise, because then itll be unfair to others who run the same adventure path, due to the fact that next time you come in you can have 2 characters who ran same adventure, but one got an artifact from it due to DM fiat.

Also, since most times you will ve with different DMs they try to stick to all the rules to be consistent and now get into "but my previous DM..."

Positives: You can easily find people to play with.

Negatives: Half of PF content isnt allowed. Some "because reasons" and some because it really IS op. (Mostly the former)

[Katana1515]

Do I dare ask what gets banned most often?

If some of the things I have seen on the Paizo forums hold true, Arcanists probably get a free pass but Weapon Specialization is considered a bit much (okay I might be exaggerating but not by much).

In my games I allow just about anything as long as its on the SRD, because I am confident enough as a DM to deal with the consequences by tweaking the story/encounters. I suppose if you feel bound to a unalterable book you might be more afraid of optimised players, as you have no way to up the difficulty settings so to speak?

[Renen]

Oh no you dont quite grasp it.
its not "most often" its always.
Think of PFS as a... job union.
You enter, abide by same rules as everyone, and you get to socialize with other people that are in the union.

So for example like 1/2 summoner's archetypes are banned, buncha feats are banned,etc.

When you DM a PFS game, you arent as much a DM, as just the guy who reads the module and makes everyone follow the PF rules and the PFS rules.

Peraonally I hate PFS.

[Raven777]

You cannot be Evil in PFS. You cannot craft in PFS. You cannot acquire permanent minions in PFS. You cannot murder a quest NPC in PFS. You cannot have fun in PFS.

[9mm]

You cannot be Evil in PFS. You cannot craft in PFS. You cannot acquire permanent minions in PFS. You cannot murder a quest NPC in PFS. You cannot have fun in PFS.

you absolutely can kill the quest npc; it just will usually ends the scenario, with no XP, fame or prestige gained. you may also get your character dinged as evil and need to get an atonement to play the character again. so you get a terrible chronicle sheet all around.

Now onto what the OP is asking: basically PFS is a very structured version of pick up basketball.

When people talk about the DM's having to play it straight , what they are referring to is that the DM cannot modify the scenario in any way; which most long time dms chafe at, and murderous DMs scream at. For example, in one scenario the party quickly id'ed the cult's hide out and started to break in through the back wall; this breaks the scenario and the dm had to say "you are going beyond the scope of the scenario." most long time DM's would absolutely let you mine your way in instead of going through the initiation ritual. Murderous DM's however, hate the fact that if the Opfor has an evil cleric, that cleric will channel like it owes you money because that is what the tactics says it does.

for player options; all charcters are built the same way with this list of allowed content. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources) yes many decisions on what is on that list is, quite frankly, arbitrary.

also a note on scenarios; they ARE NOT ADVENTURE PATHS. A scenario is a single one time game that should last 3-4 hours. Also they are often stand-alone, and often only reference the season storyline at best. Others are connected but it is assumed that a different group of pathfinders was assembled for each one (even when the universe cracks as a result).

of course if you aren't reporting, keeping track of chronicle sheets, or just playing a home game; modify away.

[(Un)Inspired]

You cannot be Evil in PFS. You cannot craft in PFS. You cannot acquire permanent minions in PFS. You cannot murder a quest NPC in PFS. You cannot have fun in PFS.


you absolutely can kill the quest npc; it just will usually ens the scenario, with no XP, fame or prestige gained. you may also get your character dinged as evil and need to get an atonement to play the character again. so you get a terrible chronicle sheet all around.

Now onto what the OP is asking: basically PFS is a very structured version of pick up basketball.

When people talk about the DM's having to play it straight , what they are referring to is that the DM cannot modify the scenario in any way; which most long time dms chafe at, and murderous DMs scream at. For example, in one scenario the party quickly id'ed the cult's hide out and started to break in through the back wall; this breaks the scenario and the dm had to say "you are going beyond the scope of the scenario." most long time DM's would absolutely let you mine your way in instead of going through the initiation ritual. Murderous DM's however, hate the fact that if the Opfor has an evil cleric, that cleric will channel like it owes you money because that is what the tactics says it does.

for player options; all charcters are built the same way with this list of allowed content. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources) yes many decisions on what is on that list is, quite frankly, arbitrary.

also a note on scenarios; they ARE NOT ADVENTURE PATHS. A scenario is a single one time game that should last 3-4 hours. Also they are often stand-alone, and often only reference the season storyline at best. Others are connected but it is assumed that a different group of pathfinders was assembled for each one (even when the universe cracks as a result).

OMG I was just starting to get interested in checking out PFS!

I've seen Gulags more friendly than that.

[9mm]

OMG I was just starting to get interested in checking out PFS!

I've seen Gulags more friendly than that.

If you have reliable access to a home game, yeah PFS is EXTREMELY confining.

When you don't, it'll do.

[arkangel111]

9 mm had it right. My home game is just now starting to pick up on a regular basis and I am less excited for pfs. Still go for now but if I ever have to give one up it will be pfs.
There is very little room for imagination in pfs. Most races are banned unless you get a chronicle sheet (usually a reward for special events, like paizocon which costs money to go to) this includes races such as goblins which are not known for being overpowered. Mounts are restricted. Even what items you can purchase are limited. For awhile it was my only way to game. Now I go because I am the gm in the home game and I like making characters and adventuring.

[Renegade Paladin]

The main advantage is the ability to show up and just play a game. It doesn't matter if someone can't make it, it doesn't even matter if you're out of town and just dropped into the local shop's game day; you will have a game. And contrary to upthread, you are perfectly allowed to have fun. :smalltongue: If you have a regular play group that's running a continuous campaign and everyone always shows up every time, you have little use for PFS, but if you don't it's really handy. I play PFS because I'm usually the GM in the home games and I wanted to get some time on the other side of the screen.

Also, because of the modular nature of how adventuring groups are put together for PFS, it's a good way to try out new character concepts without having to commit to a whole adventure path or homebrewed campaign. It's not a great way because something you might want to use could be on the ban list, but if it isn't you're golden.

[Kraken]

The main advantage is the ability to show up and just play a game. It doesn't matter if someone can't make it, it doesn't even matter if you're out of town and just dropped into the local shop's game day; you will have a game.

This is pretty much why I do PFS sometimes. If given the option, I'd take a home game ten times out of ten, but PFS is still usually decent fun when scheduling for home games falls apart.

[Psyren]

It's no different than other sanctioned play forms like Living Greyhawk and Mark of Heroes Eberron. It's a way to show up at a convention or FLGS and just jump into a game with a bunch of strangers, with minimal concerns about things like houserules. If you find it too confining, don't play it, simple.

[(Un)Inspired]

Well it looks like paizo has taken the option out of my hands. According to their website, there's no PFS being run in the whole city of LA

[Gnome Alone]

Well it looks like paizo has taken the option out of my hands. According to their website, there's no PFS being run in the whole city of LA

Whaaat? That is just bonkers.

Are there not a lot of gaming stores in LA or something? Seems like somebody'd be running it somewhere. I mean, I live in the rather less populous city of Sacramento, and there's a PFS game here and 3 or 4 more within 50-60 miles, and that's not counting the Bay Area.

[(Un)Inspired]

Whaaat? That is just bonkers.

Are there not a lot of gaming stores in LA or something? Seems like somebody'd be running it somewhere. I mean, I live in the rather less populous city of Sacramento, and there's a PFS game here and 3 or 4 more within 50-60 miles, and that's not counting the Bay Area.

Ooof the bay is a bit of a schlep from Sacramento. I did a search for any games and no dice

[Kurald Galain]

You cannot be Evil in PFS. You cannot craft in PFS. You cannot acquire permanent minions in PFS. You cannot murder a quest NPC in PFS. You cannot have fun in PFS.

To be fair, several of those are also commonly forbidden in home games.

Pros of PFS,

The adventures are pretty well-written (especially when compared to LFR), and indeed are better than what most (but not all) DMs would come up with on their own.
It's easy to find regular games without requiring a fixed commitment to one time/date/group.
It really feels like a bigger world as there are multiple groups that may trade stories and occasionally characters. Also, there are special events with multiple tables that get to cooperate towards a shared goal.
The ruleset for organized play disallows DMs from making crazy houserules, playing DMPCs, or blatantly playing favorites. Or indeed, they prevent players from backstabbing or stealing from other players. Basically most of the "worst session ever" stories you see in these forums could not have happened in PFS.


Cons of PFS,

While there are attempts at larger plot arcs, they don't work too well; almost all adventures are one-shots with not much links between them.
Gameplay is relatively low-level; every character starts at level one, sessions above level 7 are rather rare, and sessions above level 11 are nonexistent.
There are some, just a few, really horrible players out there that for obvious reasons will never find a homegroup, but they are part of organized play.
Third-party books are not allowed, nor are most non-core races.

[Katana1515]

wow thanks for all the replies guys!

The general consensus seems to be that its a reasonable substitute if you have difficulties finding a regular game (I have always been lucky in this way I suppose), though I must be honest and say it doesn't sound like something I would be overly content DMing long term.

Was wondering if anyone had any illuminating anecdotes to share about their time in PFS play?

[Firest Kathon]

Well it looks like paizo has taken the option out of my hands. According to their website, there's no PFS being run in the whole city of LA
Unfortunately not all games are listed on Paizo's page. Google (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Pathfinder+Society+%22Los+Angeles%22) turned up several results, so try this as well.

I agree with the posters above, for me the greatest advantage of PFS is that I can just turn up for a game and play, and also do not have the commitment a regular gaming group requires. If you have not completely lost interest yet (and I hope you have not), then I recommend to check out the free Guide to PF Organized Play (http://paizo.com/products/btpy84k4), which is a good introduction to the rules of PFS.

One thing to keep in mind: Paizo is not doing this for fun but for profit. If you want to play anything outside of the Core Rulebook, you have to own the source book (physical or as PDF).


though I must be honest and say it doesn't sound like something I would be overly content DMing long term.
It really depends, I guess. I like that the scenarios are usually fairly well written and can be prepared in a short time, especially if you use the resources created by other GMs (http://www.pfsprep.com/). I think it is great if you are looking to GM sometimes, especially on cons, but do not want to start a regular gaming group.


Was wondering if anyone had any illuminating anecdotes to share about their time in PFS play?
Not really any anecdotes, but so far I always had fun when playing in a PFS round.

[Arutema]

Houston Venture Captain (PFS regional coordinator) weighing in here, so my opinions may be biased.


Ooof the bay is a bit of a schlep from Sacramento. I did a search for any games and no dice

Not all games that should be listed get listed, since it's up to the coordinators to list them there and the interface for doing so isn't very friendly. You may want to just email the Venture Captain nearest you (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/regionalCoordinators) and ask what games are being run locally.


wow thanks for all the replies guys!

The general consensus seems to be that its a reasonable substitute if you have difficulties finding a regular game (I have always been lucky in this way I suppose), though I must be honest and say it doesn't sound like something I would be overly content DMing long term.

The good news is that you don't have to commit to GMing it long term. The GM credit system (the GM's character gains XP, GP and other awards as if you'd played) means that it is very well-suited to rotating-GM format games. In fact several of the regular PFS groups in Houston have an "everybody takes a turn as GM" policy.

[Renegade Paladin]

Was wondering if anyone had any illuminating anecdotes to share about their time in PFS play?
Some Society scenarios are notable for being particularly deadly; you can usually find out which ones by reading the reviews for them on Paizo's site. Others are better or worse depending on which subtier you run them in (each scenario is written with alternate encounters for different average party levels so they can be used for two or even three APL ranges); for instance I was playing Perils of the Pirate Pact in the middle subtier for it, and one-shot the final boss with a fairly average-build greatsword paladin. I was told afterward by the GM that had we been one level higher, said villain would have gained four character levels rather than being sorcerer1/rogue1 and thus susceptible to dying in one go from 2d6+9 damage. :smalltongue:

[Gnome Alone]

Ooof the bay is a bit of a schlep from Sacramento. I did a search for any games and no dice

Ha, I wouldn't go to the Bay Area just for a PFS game, I was just comparing Sacramento to LA; didn't know that thing about how not all games are listed, so it seemed really weirdly disproportionate, and moreso if you exclude the Bay Area.

The funny thing is, my regular group lives in the Bay Area so I do end up going down there for gaming porpoises semi-regularly. Haven't actually done any PFS stuff but I keep looking into it; don't know any tabletop gamers locally so it seems like maybe it'd be worth it.