Grapple Wizard

[Anderlith]

I want to make a transmuter grappler in 5e & would love some help. What spells/feats are best? How should I fight in combat? Etc.


Right now I am thinking

Variant Human
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 8

Soldier Background
Grappler feat

[Killer Angel]

I fear you posted this thread in the wrong forum section...

That said, I don't know well 5th edition, so i cannot help you, sorry.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Moved.

[bloodshed343]

Step one: multi-classing druid for wild shape
Step two: be an ape.
Step three: Profit.

The only wizard spell for grappling is Bigby's Hand.

[Luriant]

Make a Bard instead

Full Caster+Expertise for double proficency in Atletism+Cutting words or Second Attack (Lore or Valor)+Spells of all list.

For more info, see the Grapplers Manual.
Grappers Manual in WotC forums. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4142801)

More guides in this treath.
www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491-Guides-Tables-and-other-useful-tools-for-5E-D-amp-D

[Inevitability]

Dip rogue for Expertise (athletics).
Take the grappler feat. Probably take War Caster too.
Polymorph into grappling things.
Use buffs like Enhance Ability.

[bloodshed343]

Dip rogue for Expertise (athletics).
Take the grappler feat. Probably take War Caster too.
Polymorph into grappling things.
Use buffs like Enhance Ability.

Polymorph replaces your mental stats, so that tactic is up to your dm. Wild Shape is better.

[JoeJ]

Polymorph replaces your mental stats, so that tactic is up to your dm. Wild Shape is better.

Also, Polymorph is a 4th level spell. Do you really want to build your character around an ability that you won't get until 7th level?

[Person_Man]

5E Grapple Manual (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4142801)

For a Wizard, I would suggest that you use Find Familiar to get a little minion that can use the Help Action, then Conjure something with a high Grapple modifier. Don't use your own Actions to Grapple, and don't bother spending Feats on it (except maybe Warcaster, to maintain Concentration). When you get to be high enough level, Polymorph.

[bloodshed343]

5E Grapple Manual (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4142801)

For a Wizard, I would suggest that you use Find Familiar to get a little minion that can use the Help Action, then Conjure something with a high Grapple modifier. Don't use your own Actions to Grapple, and don't bother spending Feats on it (except maybe Warcaster, to maintain Concentration). When you get to be high enough level, Polymorph.

Again, druid is better at summoning creatures and wild shape is both better and more frequent than polymorph. Get a few levels of druid to get conjure animals and wild shape, then go wizard.

Alternatively, go pact of the chain warlock to get a free familiar that can attack. Use polymorph to turn your familiar into a bignasty mofo. At later levels, true polymorph it into a pit fiend to tank for your group.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Again, druid is better at summoning creatures and wild shape is both better and more frequent than polymorph. Get a few levels of druid to get conjure animals and wild shape, then go wizard.

Alternatively, go pact of the chain warlock to get a free familiar that can attack. Use polymorph to turn your familiar into a bignasty mofo. At later levels, true polymorph it into a pit fiend to tank for your group.

Of course using the parameters that the OP set down, Wizard, the proposed method works fine.

You don't need to be the best to be good or great at your job. Optimizing the Wizard for grapple is the name of the game.

OP:

You don't have the Dex or Cha to go Rogue or Bard. So those are out.

Fighter 3 (EK Knight)/ Wizard 17 (Transmuter) should work fine with above methods. Switch up levels however you see fit, Fighter 7 is nice.

Fighter 3 so you get some mileage out of the fighter, action sure, dueling style, a useful low level healing, and shield/armor profs.

Take as you feat, Tavern Brawler.

Main weapon hand? Spellbook
Offhand? Nothing.

Hit with spellbook, grapple the fool, beat more with spellbook. Any other time you can use spells.

Expertise is nice but you shouldn't need it. Cast spells that help out.

Edit: Shocking grasp cantrip is what my friend took for his EK fighter grappler... Cool factor you know.

[bloodshed343]

Of course using the parameters that the OP set down, Wizard, the proposed method works fine.

You don't need to be the best to be good or great at your job. Optimizing the Wizard for grapple is the name of the game.

OP:

You don't have the Dex or Cha to go Rogue or Bard. So those are out.

Fighter 3 (EK Knight)/ Wizard 17 (Transmuter) should work fine with above methods. Switch up levels however you see fit, Fighter 7 is nice.

Fighter 3 so you get some mileage out of the fighter, action sure, dueling style, a useful low level healing, and shield/armor profs.

Take as you feat, Tavern Brawler.

Main weapon hand? Spellbook
Offhand? Nothing.

Hit with spellbook, grapple the fool, beat more with spellbook. Any other time you can use spells.

Expertise is nice but you shouldn't need it. Cast spells that help out.

Edit: Shocking grasp cantrip is what my friend took for his EK fighter grappler... Cool factor you know.


The best way to optimize a wizard for grappling is:

Take levels in druid for wild shape and conjure animals.

Take the rest in wizard.

Cast Conjure Animals to get some low cr creatures.

Polymorph some of them into higher cr creatures with good athletics.

Wild Shape into something else.

Grapple/have your polymorph beasts grapple a creature, then beat it down/have your beast beat it down.

Another strategy is to have your summoned creatures grapple while you stay back and cast spells. The grappled creatures have disadvantage on dexterity saves so you can rack up some damage.


Of course, if you want to do the grappling yourself, do what he said.

Another way to do is with warlock 3 wizard 17. Get a familiar that can attack from pact of the chain. Use Shape Change to turn into something capable of grappling or use polymorph to make your familiar into something capable of grappling.

Or, make your natural wizard form capable of grappling and polymorph your familiar into a big nasty to beat on it while you hold it.

[JoeJ]

The best way to optimize a wizard for grappling is:

Take levels in druid for wild shape and conjure animals.

Take the rest in wizard.

Cast Conjure Animals to get some low cr creatures.

Polymorph some of them into higher cr creatures with good athletics.

Wild Shape into something else.

Grapple/have your polymorph beasts grapple a creature, then beat it down/have your beast beat it down.

Another strategy is to have your summoned creatures grapple while you stay back and cast spells. The grappled creatures have disadvantage on dexterity saves so you can rack up some damage.


Of course, if you want to do the grappling yourself, do what he said.

Another way to do is with warlock 3 wizard 17. Get a familiar that can attack from pact of the chain. Use Shape Change to turn into something capable of grappling or use polymorph to make your familiar into something capable of grappling.

Or, make your natural wizard form capable of grappling and polymorph your familiar into a big nasty to beat on it while you hold it.

What big nasty would you polymorph a familiar into that you couldn't just have as the familiar's form in the first place?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

The best way to optimize a wizard for grappling is:

Take levels in druid for wild shape and conjure animals.

Take the rest in wizard.

Cast Conjure Animals to get some low cr creatures.

Polymorph some of them into higher cr creatures with good athletics.

Wild Shape into something else.

Grapple/have your polymorph beasts grapple a creature, then beat it down/have your beast beat it down.

Another strategy is to have your summoned creatures grapple while you stay back and cast spells. The grappled creatures have disadvantage on dexterity saves so you can rack up some damage.


Of course, if you want to do the grappling yourself, do what he said.

Another way to do is with warlock 3 wizard 17. Get a familiar that can attack from pact of the chain. Use Shape Change to turn into something capable of grappling or use polymorph to make your familiar into something capable of grappling.

Or, make your natural wizard form capable of grappling and polymorph your familiar into a big nasty to beat on it while you hold it.

Wildshape really isn't worth it until later levels of Druid (10+) and if you are a moon druid due to the CR limitation. At this point you are a Druid with a splash of Wizard. You aren't really a wizard.

Why have the wizard at all if you aren't really going to use it?

[bloodshed343]

What big nasty would you polymorph a familiar into that you couldn't just have as the familiar's form in the first place?

I forgot how polymorph works, so ignore it.

[bloodshed343]

Wildshape really isn't worth it until later levels of Druid (10+) and if you are a moon druid due to the CR limitation. At this point you are a Druid with a splash of Wizard. You aren't really a wizard.

Why have the wizard at all if you aren't really going to use it?

Wizard blaster spells are good against grappled creatures. And for grappling, you don't need a high CR creature, you just need a high strength score. Brown bear is fine.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Wizard blaster spells are good against grappled creatures. And for grappling, you don't need a high CR creature, you just need a high strength score. Brown bear is fine.

Can't cast spells while wildshaped until like level 16 druid.

[bloodshed343]

Can't cast spells while wildshaped until like level 16 druid.
Oh. That changes things

[Anderlith]

Thank you Spawn of Morbo. Any particular reason to take Tavern Brawler over Grappler? & also, is a dip of fighter necessary? I would love the extra armor but I felt that the levels lost would slow me down too much. Especially since it seems a grapple wizard would be transmuting himself into things with inherent armor. Not that I'm opposed to just buffing myself without actual shapechange/polymorph.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Thank you Spawn of Morbo. Any particular reason to take Tavern Brawler over Grappler? & also, is a dip of fighter necessary? I would love the extra armor but I felt that the levels lost would slow me down too much. Especially since it seems a grapple wizard would be transmuting himself into things with inherent armor. Not that I'm opposed to just buffing myself without actual shapechange/polymorph.

Grappler doesn't actually do as much as one thinks... By RAW it just... Doesn't really work. Look into the grapple rules and then read grappler.

Tavern brawler for anything being a weapon. (Spellbook, fun!) and bonus action grapple.

Armor will help a lot.

Action: Spellbook attack
Bonus Action: Grapple

Round 2

Action: Spell or attack
Action Surge: Spell #2 or attack
Bonus action: grapple if they got out of the grapple

Rinse and repeat...

Depending on what level you start would determine if you start with a level of fighter or not. If you are starting level 20... Then yeah just transmute. But if you are starting at level 1 a level of fighter will be great.

Started out a normal brawler and then became enlightened with the ways of magic. That will help with your grappling.

Also, do you keep your feats while polymorphed or transmuted?

Dragon claws are unarmed attacks right? Bonus action grapple ftw.

[Anderlith]

I'll take tavern brawler then. Would I be able to use normal martial weapons in a grapple as well? I can't find anything that says otherwise.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'll take tavern brawler then. Would I be able to use normal martial weapons in a grapple as well? I can't find anything that says otherwise.

Tavern Brawler says it has to be an improvised weapon. Though an improvised weapon damage will be determines by your DM... A table leg may do club damage and a book may do club damage... Just depends on the DM.

[Anderlith]

So in light of all this & with a biy of research I have decided that by character will have point buy stats of

15
13
13
12
12
8

Adding the Tavern Brawler feat I can save points by not buying a 14 & make my dex a 12 which while wearing heavy armor won't really help it could at least help on initiative & such & if I am forced to go without armor

My idea is to start out Fighter then switch to wizard at level 2 I might go back to gain more but I want to gain the ability increase as soon as I can.

I plan on wielding a greatsword or long sword when not grappling. Heavy armor & buffs from wizarding

[hecetv]

^ need 13 int to multi into wizard

[Anderlith]

I apologize the stat line up was from highest to lowest. My stats will be

Str=14
Dex=12
Con=14
Int=16
Wis=12
Cha=8