[PrC] Daggerveil

[Fax Celestis]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97134.jpg

Daggerveils find that the best defense is a good offense, and have chosen to specialize in a unique and particular spell: cloud of knives. The spell creates a field of small daggers darting around the caster, each of which fires off at a nearby target once per round.

Daggerveils, unlike most other spellcasters, have spent time researching the powers of this spell and have learned to better manipulate it towards their own purposes.

Requirements
Feats: Smiting Spell, Weapon Focus (Dagger)

Spells: Ability to cast Cloud of Knives

Caster Level: Fourth

Class Features
HD: d4

Class Skills (2+Int): Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Profession, Spellcraft

Spellcasting: When a new daggerveil level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class in which he possessed before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a daggerveil, he must decide to which class he adds each level of daggerveil for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Threatening Knives (Su): A daggerveil maintains some control over the normally dormant levitating knives. He threatens the area around him as if wielding a weapon even if he is not and may make attacks of opportunity as normal. An attack of opportunity made using this ability is made at an attack bonus equal to the spellcaster's caster level + his key ability modifier and deals damage as normal for a knife from the cloud of knives spell. This ability is only functional when the daggerveil has an active cloud of knives spell.

Malleable Form (Ex): A daggerveil's knives are usually steel (occasionally silvered). However, a daggerveil of sufficient expertise learns to form his knives from different materials. He may use a knife made of a different material when casting a cloud of knives spell. All the knives generated by that casting are of that material and overcome the appropriate types of damage reduction. If the knife used as the material component of the spell is poisoned, all of the daggerveil's knives are poisoned as well. If the knife is enhanced with the returning property, a daggerveil no longer uses the knife as a material component, but instead as a focus for the spell.

Surefire Summoning (Su): A daggerveil of second level who prepares spells (such as a wizard) gains the ability to spontaneously convert an existing prepared spell of third or higher level into a cloud of knives spell at no cost. This functions identically to a cleric's spontaneous healing, except that it creates a cloud of knives effect instead of a curative spell.

Daggerveils who do not prepare spells (such as a sorceror) instead gain the ability to apply metamagic to a cloud of knives spell at one level less cost. This is for the total cost, not per metamagic, so that a silent still cloud of knives would increase the spell slot needed by 1, instead of by 2. Should this result in a net level adjustment of +0, the daggerveil may cast the spell without increased casting time.

Knife Damage (Su): A daggerveil's knives are sharper and more precise than the average caster's. Starting at second level, knives from the caster's cloud of knives spells deal an additional 1d6 points of damage. This damage increases to 2d6 extra at fourth level.

Doubleshot (Su): At third level, through careful manipulation of the arcane energies inherent in the spell, the daggerveil summons twice the number of knives needed for the duration of the spell and may fire them two at a time. Firing a second knife is exactly the same as firing the first, except that it uses an attack bonus equal to one-half the caster's caster level plus his key ability modifier.

Improved Smiting Spell (Ex): At third level, daggerveil is so in tune with his knives that when he imbues them with magical energies, he does so more efficiently than other spellcasters. When preparing a spell with Smiting Spell metamagic, the spellcaster can choose to make it able to target only one his knives (instead of any weapon). If he does this, he does not need to increase the level of the slot to prepare the spell in. If the daggerveil casts spells spontaneously, he does not increase his casting time when using Smiting Spell nor does he use up a higher spell slot when he casts a spell with Smiting Spell metamagic applied to one of his knives.

Chain Through The Cloud (Su): At fourth level, the daggerveil understands that his knives are things of might, and has learned that each knife is inexorably bound to the others through the power of his magics. When he casts a spell onto his knives (such as greater magic weapon, but not one altered by Smiting Spell), he can choose to have it affect all of his knives instead.

Class Progression
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Threatening Knives, Malleable Form | +1 level of existing spellcasting class
2nd |+1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Surefire Summoning, Knife Damage +1d6 | +1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Doubleshot, Improved Smiting Spell | +1 level of existing spellcasting class
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Chain Through The Cloud, Knife Damage +2d6 | +1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

[Rama_Lei]

This is a very sexy prestige class. Very sexy. Well done.

[The Demented One]

Neat. Has a very bad-ass, anime-ish feel without succumbing to the many flaws that wrack anime prestige classes. I'd give them the ability to cast it spontaneously, to help out wizards and so on.

[Tim4488]

Rock on. Sweet, simple, to the point, but tasteful with new ideas and good execution.

[AmberVael]

Rock on. Sweet, simple, to the point, but tasteful with new ideas and good execution.
The Knifeclouder is to the point?
*dies of noticing every horrible pun there is*

But yeah, this is a pretty cool class. I liek the idea of a mage flinging knives everywhere.
Makes me want a mage who actually can use Telekinesis effectively, unlike that one PrC which was kinda dull.

[Fax Celestis]

Neat. Has a very bad-ass, anime-ish feel without succumbing to the many flaws that wrack anime prestige classes. I'd give them the ability to cast it spontaneously, to help out wizards and so on.

Ooh, yeah. But I hate giving something to wizards and clerics when I don't give it to sorcerors.

EDIT: Perhaps:


Surefire Summoning (Su): A knifeclouder who prepares spells (such as a wizard) gains the ability to spontaneously convert an existing prepared spell of third or higher level into a cloud of knives spell at no cost. This functions identically to a cleric's spontaneous healing, except that it creates a cloud of knives effect instead of a curative spell.

Knifeclouders who do not prepare spells (such as a sorceror) instead gain the ability to apply metamagic to a cloud of knives spell without increasing the casting time of the spell.

...but where do I put it?

Also, another one that didn't make it in:


Malleable Form (Ex): A knifeclouder's knives are usually steel (occasionally silvered). However, a knifeclouder of sufficient expertise learns to form his knives from different materials. He may select a material when casting a cloud of knives spell. All the knives generated by that casting are of that material and overcome the appropriate types of damage reduction.

Hm.

What if I made it a four-leveler?

[Sage in the Playground]

Woooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[ampcptlogic]

I'm actually vaguely confused that it's only a 3-level PrC. Add a fourth level, or even a 5th, if there's cool stuff you think it should be able to do.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm actually vaguely confused that it's only a 3-level PrC. Add a fourth level, or even a 5th, if there's cool stuff you think it should be able to do.

I was thinking about doing more, but I couldn't think of anything beyond a fourth level.

Besides, PrCs that focus on one spell shouldn't bee too big.

[TheOOB]

I like the idea, it's much better then WotCs single spell focused classes (master of the unseen hand, mindspy). One thing I noted that I really dislike is that a caster really doesn't lose anything by taking this class. A caster level is obviously too much to take away for this classes abilities, but there should be some reason why taking this class isn't always better then just continuing your normal base class progression, be it a tough prerequisite, or a lose of ability in some other area, or something.

[AmberVael]

While I like the idea of giving the wizards the ability to cast it spontaneously, giving the sorcerers the "no extra casting time for metamagic" just seems like tossing them a bone.
I mean, we have a feat for that, for all spells.
We have a sorcerer variant for it, for all spells.
In all likelihood, a sorcerer will have one of those two already. I mean, I know I would.
It might be better to think of something else, (though I honestly have no suggestions at this time).
Plus, its alot less benefit than spontaneously having this spell.

[Fax Celestis]

I was actually thinking a reduced skill list, perhaps removing the Knowledges. That'd make it difficult to qualify for a variety of PrCs after this one.

[Rama_Lei]

Sorcerers should get something....

[crazedloon]

I like the class well thought out

My suggestion is make it a 5 level PrC drop 1 or 2 caster levels to make it more of a choice to take (though you may want to keep it as is)

Also if you ask me there should be a way to make a machine gun like attack. perhaps a strafe where you can make a number of attacks on strait line equal to your caster level + modifier /2 however you can not hit the same square twice and takes a full round action. That or be able to dump all your knives into one target (ok that would be too powerful unless you take a major loss to hit but it gives me a cool image in my head)

[Starsinger]

This is a very sexy prestige class. Very sexy. Well done.
Speaking of sexy, Hennet looks really good in that picture. I'm sure Mialee is terribly jealous.

On topic, this is a nice prestige class. I liked Cloud of Knives before, but found it a little.. meh. But if I took levels in this? I'd love that spell.

[knightsaline]

just one question, what book is this spell from? I can't find it in the spell compendium.

[The Demented One]

Speaking of sexy, Hennet looks really good in that picture. I'm sure Mialee is terribly jealous.
Agreed. Poor Mialee; I guess someone had to get stuck with the mutant cricket face.

[ajkkjjk52]

Sorry to be clueless, but what is cloud of knives? I can't find it in any of the books I have.

[Fax Celestis]

Cloud of Knives appears in the PHB-II. Also, adding level 4.

[Catch]

Too much damage. Instead of adding damage, increase the die size, so in this case, a d6 and then a d8.

[Fax Celestis]

Agreed. Poor Mialee; I guess someone had to get stuck with the mutant cricket face.

One would think that would have been, oh, the thri-kreen?

[Fax Celestis]

Too much damage. Instead of adding damage, increase the die size, so in this case, a d6 and then a d8.

Compare to a fireball. A second level knifeclouder's knives will deal 2d6+2 a piece, and he can hit up to two targets per round. The same knifeclouder can cast a fireball and deal 3d6 to everything in a 20' radius.

A fourth level knifeclouder's knives will deal 3d6+3 a piece, and he can hit up to two targets per round. The same knifeclouder can cast a fireball and deal 4d6 to everything in a 20' radius

[Starsinger]

Possibly, for a fifth level, some incentive to use Heighten Spell with it? Or maybe Sudden Extend 1/day for Cloud of Knives only?

[Fizban]

Wow Fax, you really, reaaaaly like that combo don't you?

Since cloud of knives says nothing about how many it summons, I would suggest removing the reference to summoning twice as many and just say that they can fire an extra knife each round. Presumably the spell either creates so many knives it won't realistically run out, or it summons new ones every few moments.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Delicious synergy with smiting spell, I must yoink it, om nom nom nom.

Seems balanced opportunity-wise with the loss of the knowledge skills, since very gorram wizard PrC demands them.

I'm fond of spell-based prestige classes (with some exceptions....) and this is the best I've seen.

Unreserved yoink, very classy work.

[Imrix.]

Damn good class, I've been entertaining concepts on classes based around single spells myself... I'll probably never get around to it, like usual. Yours is inspiring, however.

[flawed.Perfection]

Great PrC indeed; kudos.

But I would make it a 5 level PrC to keep the consistency there. Just spread the current abilities out over the 5 levels, and maybe have the first level not get a spellcasting level, to show the dedication needed to learn the PrC.

[SpartacusThe2nd]

I think you should make it a five levels PrC add the ability you left out (in the cold :X) and gieve the class +1 level of existing spellcasting class only in level 1, 3 and 5.

except that, its a very cool PrC but I never seen this spell :D


edit: after raeding...flawed perfection(?) reply I think he is right and maybe giving spellcasting level at level 2 and 4.

[flawed.Perfection]

I actually meant that the spellcasting progression should start at 2nd and each level after that (so 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th).

But all the odd levels works as well.

[The Demented One]

I'd put limits on the malleable form ability, maybe level restrictions. The thought of a level 5 spellcaster creating a cloud of thianun knives is just nasty.

[jjpickar]

Nice class, have you thought about letting someone poison the knives by using poison as a material component?

[Fax Celestis]

I was about to say there's no reason you can't, but that'd be individually. Poisoning all of them...Perhaps I'll add that to Malleable Form.

[Brazeku]

I don't think this PrC should lose any caster levels, frankly- its abilities are cool but certainly not overpowered.

If you want to restrict it somewhat, you should make weapon focus- dagger a required feat. You also, as mentioned above, may want to restrict the dagger materials you can choose from.

[Kioran]

I´d add that to use malleable form, you would simply have to use a knife of the appropriate kind as material component, for example a cold iron knife for cold iron knives in the cloud. You´d still have to come prepared, but can fight creatures with DR using your cloud.

Edit: Argh, to slow again. Prerequisite: Weapon Focus dagger is a very nice Idea, essentially having 1 feat as a cost for this PrC.

[Brazeku]

Total jinx, yo!

[Fax Celestis]

I´d add that to use malleable form, you would simply have to use a knife of the appropriate kind as material component, for example a cold iron knife for cold iron knives in the cloud. You´d still have to come prepared, but can fight creatures with DR using your cloud.

Edit: Argh, to slow again. Prerequisite: Weapon Focus dagger is a very nice Idea, essentially having 1 feat as a cost for this PrC.

Added and altered.

[crazedloon]

I really like the small alterations this class is getting and it just seams to get more powerful but in a balanced way. Very cool :smallbiggrin:

Though dropping 1 dose of poison from BoVD can be very deadly to nearly anyone if you can gain a whole bunch of uses out of it via malleable form. (Something I find annoying with my master thrower is the cost of poison.) Then add in the poison that reduces SR this becomes a nice way to boost casters effectiveness nice (though potentially broken)

[The Demented One]

I'm liking the changes to Malleable Form. Nicely done.

[knightsaline]

Malleable form + Calm ravage = barbarian stopper

[Fizban]

Hmm, I don't think you should be able to multiply poison like that. Using a dagger as a material component works since it's normally infinite uses, but poison is a one shot ability. I'd suggest only letting the poison apply to the first attack, or having it apply to one attack of the caster's choice.

OTOH, such materials as the Morguth Iron in AaEG, that's inherently infinitely poisoned would be great, and I like the idea of say using a Rimefire dagger to get a +1 cold to all of them.

[ExHunterEmerald]

VERY nice. I'll be using this in my games, I will...

Hey, D1, I've been meaning to ask...is that Tacgnol in your avatar?!

[Holocron Coder]

I like this :) Very flavorful.

The only bug I have with this is, incidentally, the name o.O Knifeclouder doesn't sound so great, but I can't think of an alternate name.

Random name-thought: "Spell Dervish". But that prob doesn't fit.

[Kioran]

One should also be able to save cost in regular summonings by using a returning Dagger, which then functions as a Focus instead of a component. Wouldn´t lower the cost by much, but if you were up against some supernatural enemies regularly, burdening the Mage with the cost of several silver daggers per Session simply because he uses Cloud of knives instead of, say, scorching ray doesn´t seem to fair. Granted, the spell is quitepowerful later on, but not gamebreakingly so.

[crazedloon]

One should also be able to save cost in regular summonings by using a returning Dagger, which then functions as a Focus instead of a component. Wouldn´t lower the cost by much, but if you were up against some supernatural enemies regularly, burdening the Mage with the cost of several silver daggers per Session simply because he uses Cloud of knives instead of, say, scorching ray doesn´t seem to fair. Granted, the spell is quitepowerful later on, but not gamebreakingly so.

I think you are confused you summon a cloud of knive you only need 1 to start the cloud.

Also by the point in time when you gain this PrC you will probably have a bag of holding.

[Fax Celestis]

I think you are confused you summon a cloud of knive you only need 1 to start the cloud.

Also by the point in time when you gain this PrC you will probably have a bag of holding.

The spell requires a dagger as a material component, not a material focus.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Really? I could've sworn it was a focus.

At any rate, I agree that "Knifeclouder," while accurate, isn't a terrific name. Anything else we can do with that? Steel Swarmer, maybe? Also, another potential idea.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85467.jpg
Ring of Blades, CArc.

[Fax Celestis]

Oooh. Nifty. I'll see what I can do.

As for a name...I have no idea.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Oooh. Nifty. I'll see what I can do.

As for a name...I have no idea.

Nimbus of Steel
" of Blades
" of Daggers
" of Knives

Knife Nimbus
" Storm

Thousand-Blades

Veil of daggers
Daggerveil
Etc!

[Fax Celestis]

Daggerveil it is.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Daggerveil it is.

A winrar is me!

[Fax Celestis]

4tehWinRAR.exe!

[ExHunterEmerald]

4tehWinRAR.exe!

O lawd, is dat sum force dragon stacking?

[The Demented One]

O lawd, is dat sum force dragon stacking?
Symmetrical docking?

[Merlin the Tuna]

Dynamic entry!

[Fizban]

Huh, I read it as "Daggerdevil", Daggerveil is much nicer though.

I'd still like to hear the rationale behind letting the caster get a bunch of free poison through multiplication.

[Fax Celestis]

Huh, I read it as "Daggerdevil", Daggerveil is much nicer though.

I'd still like to hear the rationale behind letting the caster get a bunch of free poison through multiplication.

1. He doesn't get Use Posion as a class ability, so he could potentially poison himself.

2. The poison goes away at the end of the spell, so he can't sell it or use it again later.

3. Poison is resistable by a great many things; most monsters have good Fort saves (through heritage or otherwise), while others are immune completely.

[Merlin the Tuna]

4.) It's really nifty, and Wiz/Sorcs can do way more dangerous things with Fort saves.

[Fizban]

Hmm, I suppose it's not that bad then. I concede.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I really like this class.

[Latronis]

4 level PrC is just well Odd

apart from that i like it

also I like the new avatar

truly hated the last one

[Fax Celestis]

4 level PrC is just well Odd

apart from that i like it

also I like the new avatar

truly hated the last one

You didn't like Silence?

EDIT: Also: Look at the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (7 levels), or the Void Disciple (13 levels). There are strangely leveled PrCs.

[Latronis]

Aye i know they exist I don't like it, but that's alright i can't have the tv volume with if it's numbered at certain numbers either.

And silence just rubs me the wrong way, which i guess is a credit to the artist

[Fax Celestis]

Aye i know they exist I don't like it, but that's alright i can't have the tv volume with if it's numbered at certain numbers either.

And silence just rubs me the wrong way, which i guess is a credit to the artist

Silence is supposed to rub you the wrong way. She's very abrasive.

[crazedloon]

1. He doesn't get Use Posion as a class ability, so he could potentially poison himself.

Really easy ways around this via alchemic capsules which don’t invoke the poison (I’m pretty sure)


2. The poison goes away at the end of the spell, so he can't sell it or use it again later.

Obviously but the idea is you can "splurge" on 1 dose of high power poison (you have obviosly not seen BoVD poison) with fort saves in the 30s which do 2d6 dex or 2d8 str damage (with dc 54) (i.e. encounter stoppers if used correctly and often enough) so you are allowing a mage with this class to buy 1 dose for the large cost but get (at max level of this as is) 16 shots of it. which can end a "fair" encounter quickly.


3. Poison is resistable by a great many things; most monsters have good Fort saves (through heritage or otherwise), while others are immune completely.

The immune completely is reasonable but that is outsiders mostly so at level 5 you wont be running into much. As far as fort with the propper poison it realy wont help much.

[knightsaline]

Ravages only work on Evil monsters, so you don't get poisoned if you mess up. you could even have your whole party standing in front of you while you cast this spell while it is poisoned and they wouldn't get poisoned.

question, if the dagger is enchanted, does the knives the spell produces have the enchantment? I can imagine a flaming burst dagger being used, hitting something and then exploding.

[Eighth_Seraph]

That would be pretty interesting, and a good reason to take this class. A sorcerer (for extra spells per day) with a belt containing a +1 Holy Returning, +1 Flaming Burst Returning, +1 Brilliant Energy Returning and +1 Distance (not sure about this one) Returning daggers, maybe Anarchic or Axiomatic depending on the campaign.

This is a really interesting PrC, I must admit, but it would be pretty awesome if the Daggerveil could manipulate the cloud in some way, perhaps to form a defensive wall? Might unbalance it, though.

[Hario]

One question I'm unsurabout, you make an attack roll with cloud of knives, does this mean you can sneak attack with that spell? if so I'd be gravely afraid of a rogue/wizard gestault build with that, hell even 1 level of rogue in a normal build and go arcane trickster with this PrC in there would be pretty deadly. Also you could get that spell that allows you to count as flanked on your other threatened area and mod a whip-dagger for the purpose of this spell and voila, instant kills! ;P I think this is all correct, though some might not be.

[Fax Celestis]

One question I'm unsurabout, you make an attack roll with cloud of knives, does this mean you can sneak attack with that spell? if so I'd be gravely afraid of a rogue/wizard gestault build with that, hell even 1 level of rogue in a normal build and go arcane trickster with this PrC in there would be pretty deadly. Also you could get that spell that allows you to count as flanked on your other threatened area and mod a whip-dagger for the purpose of this spell and voila, instant kills! ;P I think this is all correct, though some might not be.

Spells that make attack rolls are eligible for sneak attack, yes, this one included. As for lashknives, that'd take DM Fiat, and the spell and this class pretty specifically specify only daggers.

Third, the Rogue/Wizard/Daggerveil/Arcane Trickster build you speak of would essentially be a Warlock.

[Fizban]

As for the BoVD poisons, I tend to ignore them. And the ravages, though I ignore them because it's just a dumb idea (poison is evil unless it only hurt evil people, yay!).

But yeah, that was my general thinking, buying a single dose of poison and affecting multiple people with it.

Which reminds me of the irony that the poison spell is actually weaker than many of the DMG poisons (though you can't normally increase their DC's).

[Latronis]

As for the BoVD poisons, I tend to ignore them. And the ravages, though I ignore them because it's just a dumb idea (poison is evil unless it only hurt evil people, yay!).

But yeah, that was my general thinking, buying a single dose of poison and affecting multiple people with it.

Which reminds me of the irony that the poison spell is actually weaker than many of the DMG poisons (though you can't normally increase their DC's).

i tend to ignore the BoED because its just cover to cover of dumb ideas :P

Still even something like Dragon Bile can be nasty with it

[Aramil Liadon]

Wow. Very cool. I just wish I played a wizard or sorc.
*cry in a corner*
I wish bards got this spell.

[Eighth_Seraph]

Well, using Iames' redux of the Bard, they get their spells from any spell list, but of course more slowly and only up to sixth level.

[Lord Iames Osari]

The redux which still isn't finished, that is.

[Eighth_Seraph]

uh-huh. Lookin' good so far, though. What's missing, some more performances?