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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Unseen Seer: Ideas for an Archetype



AetherShift
2014-12-04, 09:52 AM
The unseen seer prestige class was one of my all time favorites from 3.x. I have a lot of ideas, but no real experience in creating subclasses for 5th edition. Would anyone care to help me translate some of these ideas into a balanced rogue archetype?

First, a short narrative about a hypothetical high level Unseen Seer.
Note: There are a lot of ideas in here. I know not all of them will make the cut. This is just a flavor exercise.

As her senses lead her into the next room, she sees that it is a dead end. Her mark had disappeared. Closing her eyes, she sees with her mind’s eye, footsteps leading to the far wall, where they seem to vanish. She places her hand on the wall and concentrates. She extends her senses 5, 15, 30, 60 feet in all directions. She sees into a hidden room behind the false wall, as well as the concealed (and booby-trapped) door to her left. Somehow understanding exactly how the mechanism works, she slides her finger along a deep grove in the stonework, catching a switch that opens the door without setting off the trap. As she enters the room, she notices two hallways that branch of in opposite directions. The temporal impressions left by her mark’s footprints have faded. She’ll have to hurry if she is to catch him now. She sits on the floor and begins to weave her scouting spell, an Arcane Eye. She does so quickly and silently, unwilling to give away her position to even a seemingly empty room. The Arcane Eye darts down the left corridor as she takes the right. As she moves, quickly yet carefully, an image from the floating eye plays out in her mind’s eye. It is difficult to maintain concentration while moving, but she is running out of time. Her mark must not get away. Now running, she can feel herself growing closer. She dismisses her arcane eye as she rounds the corner. There she discovers her target waiting for her. He has foolishly fabricated illusory doubles of himself as he braces for her attack. Only one version of her mark radiates with the warm glow of life and the aura of enchanted items. Suddenly she vanishes. All goes quiet. The last thing the mark noticed was the cold thrust of a dagger in his side.

Next, here are some more mechanical ideas of how the subclass might work.

Unseen Seer 5.0
Stealth, Reconnaissance, Infiltration

Unseen Seer v3.5 prestige class characteristics
- Access to divination spells from all spell lists
- Silent spell casting
- Caster level bonus to divination spells
- Permanent nondetection

v5.0 Skills that might be important to an Unseen Seer
Arcana
Insight
Investigation
Perception
Stealth

v5.0 Feats that might be important to an Unseen Seer
Alert
Observant
Skulker

Possibilities for distinguishing Unseen Seer from Diviner
- Rogue related usage of divination
Stealthy Scrying / Silent Spellcasting
Detecting traps/hidden doors
See invisible creatures for purpose of sneak attacking them
Etc.
- No “Temporal” flavored abilities.
Unseen Seers see/know what’s happening right now, in the present
(Lots of detecting but not a whole lot of predicting)
Ex. True Seeing is fine. Foresight is not.
-Nondetection, Invisibility
Actively hide from mundane and magical detection
Adapt at shrugging of other divinatory powers

Unseen Seer structured as a Rogue Archetype (initial thoughts)
3: Spell casting (As arcane trickster except replace Enchantment/Illusion spell limitation with Divination spells from all class spell lists)
3: Some sort of stealth specific ability or maybe a bonus to Perception and/or Stealth under certain conditions. Maybe cast divination spells silently.
9: Limited invisibility or limited clairvoyant ability (see/hear behind touched walls/doors?) Access to scrying sensor, Minor “Portent” (1 dice) ability
13: Permanent Nondetection (as per the spell), Modified version of diviner “Third Eye” ability, “x-ray” vision
17: Some form of True Seeing

If anyone has other ideas, I would be glad to hear them!
(Also, first post!)

Leuku
2014-12-10, 01:07 AM
Hmm. So is an Unseen Seer a primary weapon user who augments her combat and utility with spells, or is she a primary spell user who augments her combat and utility with stealth?

Depending on which, it may be better to make this a Warlock subclass rather than Rogue.

Assuming its the former and thus a Rogue who uses magic, then I would begin with the base: What thing at level 3 should we expect to see the Unseen Seer using constantly, identifying her as thematically distinct, something that can be upgraded as she levels?

Is it the Arcane Eye? Is it being able to "See" things within a certain range of herself? Probably the see things.

So then we can begin with a mechanic that brings in her "En", so to speak - a Japanese word meaning "Circle" (http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Nen)

And I'd imagine that at High levels, perhaps the Highest level for a subclass, this Unseen Seer no longer needs to fulfill the Verbal component of any spell it knows.

AetherShift
2014-12-11, 08:46 PM
Yes, the “Arcane Eye” will probably be the defining feature of the Unseen Seer. (like mage hand is for the arcane trickster)

This divination power from the Pathfinder RPG is a decent summation of what it could look like:

“Send Senses (Sp): As a standard action, you place a scrying sensor at a point within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet/wizard level) that you can see and have line of effect to. You can see or hear (not both) through this sensor for number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairvoyance spell with a caster level equal to your wizard level.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.”

I could see this as the basic ability (or something similar). This would be combined with enhancements to the Unseen Seer’s perception. In other words, the eye itself remains relatively unchanged (maybe increasing in range and speed), but as the Unseen Seer gains levels they can perceive more (see invisibility, ignore concealment, detect magic, “x-ray vision”, true seeing, etc.) and therefore the eye becomes more useful as a result.

One thing I’m wondering about is if I should include spellcasting at all (like the Arcane Trickster) or simply give the Unseen Seer spell-like abilities. The divination spell list is rather sparse, so maybe the sub class just grants specific abilities that emulate the basics of Divination magic. Here are the spells I feel would make appropriate abilities:

Detect Magic (1st level)
Detect Thoughts (2nd level)
Locate Object (2nd level)
Clairvoyance (3rd level)
Nondetection (3rd level)
Arcane Eye (4th level)
Locate Creature (4th level)
Scrying (5th level)
True Seeing (6th level)

Nondetection is included here because it was one of the defining characteristics of the original prestige class. The Unseen Seer is not only skilled at using divinations, but also in evading them.

So what do you think? Should the subclass be a spell caster? Or should these spells be translated into class features?

As for the structure, I'm firmly committed to using the Rogue base, so levels 3, 9, 13 and 17 are what I'm trying to work with.

Leuku
2014-12-11, 10:01 PM
Yes, the “Arcane Eye” will probably be the defining feature of the Unseen Seer. (like mage hand is for the arcane trickster)

Alright, then let's start level 3 with a minor form of Arcane Eye.


This divination power from the Pathfinder RPG is a decent summation of what it could look like:

“Send Senses (Sp): As a standard action, you place a scrying sensor at a point within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet/wizard level) that you can see and have line of effect to. You can see or hear (not both) through this sensor for number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairvoyance spell with a caster level equal to your wizard level.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.”

I could see this as the basic ability (or something similar). This would be combined with enhancements to the Unseen Seer’s perception. In other words, the eye itself remains relatively unchanged (maybe increasing in range and speed), but as the Unseen Seer gains levels they can perceive more (see invisibility, ignore concealment, detect magic, “x-ray vision”, true seeing, etc.) and therefore the eye becomes more useful as a result.

Alright. Perhaps at level 3, You can cast the Eye up to 30 feet from. Each time you reach a rogue subclass level, this distance increases. At lvl 9, 60 feet. At lvl 13, 120 feet. At lvl 17, 300 feet.


One thing I’m wondering about is if I should include spellcasting at all (like the Arcane Trickster) or simply give the Unseen Seer spell-like abilities. The divination spell list is rather sparse, so maybe the sub class just grants specific abilities that emulate the basics of Divination magic. Here are the spells I feel would make appropriate abilities:

Detect Magic (1st level)
Detect Thoughts (2nd level)
Locate Object (2nd level)
Clairvoyance (3rd level)
Nondetection (3rd level)
Arcane Eye (4th level)
Locate Creature (4th level)
Scrying (5th level)
True Seeing (6th level)

So what do you think? Should the subclass be a spell caster? Or should these spells be translated into class features?

You could build it like the Elemental Monk, you can spend Ki points to use certain spells. That way you don't have to bother with spell casting, but can use spells. And maybe you can spend points to add features to your Eye, X-ray vision, see invisibility, and detect magic. And perhaps at some point the Arcane Eye becomes a permanent fixture for you, always cast, always ready, and always watching.