Best Nova set-up for melee

[Quantumshadow]

So I'm playing a paladin and just hit level 4, I do ok damage but I'm looking to output some major hurt. I use a morning star, with the dueling fighting style, I hit for d8+6, and with my smite I do another 2d8 and I have my thunderous that does 1d6. I plan on taking 3 levels in fighter after I hit level 5 in paladin, and I think so far I'm on the right path, but wanted to see what you all might have. My goal is to do a much as I can on my turn at least once, how does it look?

[Giant2005]

If you want to optimize your burst damage, you do so by getting as many attacks as possible as well as many spell slots as possible.
So your first thought needs to be about how much you are willing to lose about being a Paladin.
Some things that will help your burst Damage:
Fighter 2 for Action Surge.
Fighter 11 for a third attack.
Rogue 3 for Assassinate.
Monk 2+ for Flurry of Blows and as many Ki points as possible.
Sorcerer X for increased spell slots (Both from full casting as well as converting Sorc points into spell slots).

Of the above, the only one I'd rule out immediately would be Fighter 11. 11 levels is too much of an investment for a single extra attack.

[hecetv]

Of pure 20 classes paladin has the greatest burst. Paladin18/Fighter2 is probably the best possible.

For fighter 2 handed weapons wreck burst, for paladin ehhhh it's only like 16 less damage to take duelist since most of your burst will be from 2 smites and a smite spell.

Maybe assassin 3 could fit in somewhere but I'm not sure and idk if you're really into making a three way multiclass.

But really really paladin all the way won't hurt, you'll get all your ability increases, just to miss out on doing around 200 damage every once in a while by burning a ton of your spell slots and really as you're leveling up I think slowing your progression will probably hurt more than getting action surge overall.

[silveralen]

Personally I'd wait a little later on dipping fighter, till you get stronger smites and possibly the 1d8 per hit at lvl 11. Once you have a few spell slots to burn through, then it gets better.

Which type of paladin are you? Vengeance gains haste and hunter's mark, both of which offer more than a bonus action smite spell. Oath breaker has a nice damage boost as well.

[Atmosk]

If you where a level 20 18/2 paladin fighter with haste your maximum expected damage in a turn is:

(8.34+5+4.5)5+((22.5*4)+18)= 197

That is assuming you use a Greatsword, use an action surge and cast your five smites using all your fourth and fifth spell slots and one of your third level slots. You would also need a third level slot available to cast haste out of prior to attacking.

I haven't really looked that hard at the paladin yet tho, so i might have missed something.

Honestly i'm not very impressed given that it essentially takes six spell slots and a once per short rest ability to pull off. Especially considering a level 20 EK fighter could do 120 two turns in a row with just his action surges and haste.

(8.34+5)9= 120

EDIT: Pure paladin max's out at 121 per round, having to expend 4 spell slots btw.

(8.34+5+4.5)3+(22.5*3)= 121

[hecetv]

Sorry this is sort of unrelated to your question really but actually in terms of pure single class, 20 fighter has the highest possible single round melee damage 8 great weapon attacks all with +10 damage and 20 strength will wreck pure paladin in terms of single round burst. And probably overall out DPS a paladin in general....

18 paladin 2 fighter will however out burst pure fighter by a little bit, but you'll burn most of your spell slots. Or at least your 1 (all) 5th level, 2 (all) 4th level and 2 3rd level.

And actually revisiting assassin.... Well never mind but assassins don't do too bad and maybe do the most.... So basically I take it all back but paladin is still an insane melee dpser and can hold its own with the rest of them. Not to mention a lot of its damage will be radiant which isn't commonly resisted.... So that should be taken into consideration too.

[Giant2005]

And actually revisiting assassin.... Well never mind but assassins don't do too bad and maybe do the most.... So basically I take it all back but paladin is still an insane melee dpser and can hold its own with the rest of them. Not to mention a lot of its damage will be radiant which isn't commonly resisted.... So that should be taken into consideration too.

Thieves are awesome too - they can get up to 4 sneak attacks on a target before it even gets a hit in. They are less useful to dip with though...

[Mechaviking]

Thieves are awesome too - they can get up to 4 sneak attacks on a target before it even gets a hit in. They are less useful to dip with though...

Care to explain that one for me?

[Giant2005]

They ambush their victim and take two turns with two sneaks thanks to Thief's Reflexes, they then roll initiative and (Hopefully) win due to their higher Dexterity so they can attack again with another sneak and then on the enemy's turn they can get one more sneak in by attacking as a reaction (assuming they have a feat or multiclass ability that lets them attack as a reaction - or the victim does something stupid which triggers an Opportunity Attack).

[Easy_Lee]

One simple option is to take up polearm master with a quarterstaff (one handed versatile). That gives you a bonus d4 attack which adds dueling and attribute, as well as more opportunity attacks.

The math:
Morningstar: 2(1d8+5+2)=23 + 2 chances to smite
Quarterstaff: 2(1d6+5+2)+(1d4+5+2)=30.5 + 3 chances to smite

You already have the right build for it (STR dueling), so I think it's a no-brained.

[Z3ro]

They ambush their victim and take two turns with two sneaks thanks to Thief's Reflexes, they then roll initiative and (Hopefully) win due to their higher Dexterity so they can attack again with another sneak and then on the enemy's turn they can get one more sneak in by attacking as a reaction (assuming they have a feat or multiclass ability that lets them attack as a reaction - or the victim does something stupid which triggers an Opportunity Attack).

Remember, there is no surprise round any more. Surprised is a condition, one that applies on the first round of combat if you don't notice your attacker (or vice-versa).

ETA: To the OP - if you want fairly consistent nova damage, the best way to go is after paladin 5 take fighter 2 and rogue 3. Then you combine assassinate with action surge and smiting in round 1; even without the smites it's still deadly, but since smites double on a critical, that adds up quick.

[Person_Man]

I think you're probably going to get fairly similar melee burst damage results from Assassin Rogue, Battlemaster Fighter, and Paladin.

One option I haven't seen mentioned yet is Paladin 5/Cleric or maybe Bard 15. That gives you Smite, Extra Attack, and 1st through 9th level spell slots. More slots means you could use maximum Smite (+5d8) more often. And IIRC there is one Smite spell that can be cast out of higher levels slots to add more damage as a Bonus Action. Cleric also has some Channel Divinity and Domain abilities that add to damage, or Lore Bard can cherry pick the best buffs from any list.

I'm AFB at the moment, but if you put it all together, I think you end up with something like 2*[2d6 + 5 + 5d6 (Smite) + 7d6 (Smite spell cast out of high level slot) + 35 (Channel Divinity) + 10 (Great Weapon Master)] = 198ish damage.

[Tarvil]

Best nova? I think DEX 3Assassin/4Battlemaster/13Vengeance Paladin have best burst. But leveling it is painful.

[Vogonjeltz]

They ambush their victim and take two turns with two sneaks thanks to Thief's Reflexes, they then roll initiative and (Hopefully) win due to their higher Dexterity so they can attack again with another sneak and then on the enemy's turn they can get one more sneak in by attacking as a reaction (assuming they have a feat or multiclass ability that lets them attack as a reaction - or the victim does something stupid which triggers an Opportunity Attack).

Thief's reflexes happens inside the initiative count. You'd need to get a surprise round, then roll initiative beating your opponent's initiative by 11 (since the bonus turn from reflexes is at initiative -10). Then you'd have to have say, sentinel. This doesn't account for the sneak attack requirements however.


So I'm playing a paladin and just hit level 4, I do ok damage but I'm looking to output some major hurt. I use a morning star, with the dueling fighting style, I hit for d8+6, and with my smite I do another 2d8 and I have my thunderous that does 1d6. I plan on taking 3 levels in fighter after I hit level 5 in paladin, and I think so far I'm on the right path, but wanted to see what you all might have. My goal is to do a much as I can on my turn at least once, how does it look?

I would have picked a War pick because it's cheaper and lighter. Or more likely, a Sword (slashing) or Warhammer (bludgeoning). Aside from that, Paladins seem to focus on defensive attributes, rather than offensive ones.

[hecetv]

Is it worth mentioning radiant from smite is rarely resisted? Warlock with hurl through hell can really hurt and is also inherently not mundane damage? Just a rapier and hex with hurl through hell is almost what 90 average? And you could probably do better. A great sword and gwm could push that over 100 easy. Not too shabby.