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Tabris92
2014-12-04, 08:25 PM
I have never played a caster in DnD ever, so this is new territory for me. I figure wizard should be easy enough to understand but I wanted to try and make my first caster a good one.
Was looking to remake a character for a campaign, and I stumbled onto ultimate magus in Complete Mage.
Now, from what I read on a forum, if you take wizard 4 sorcerer 1 and take practiced spell caster on sorcerer...well, ill just put in an excerpt.

"The determining factor of what is the lower caster level is your caster level (not the level of spells you can cast). Practiced Spellcaster allows you to raise the caster level of any of your spellcasting classes by 4, though you can't use it to cast spells above your HD. Thus in the above example

Sorc 1/Wizard 4/UM 10/X 5
if you were to take as your 3rd level feat Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) your sorcerer caster level would be 5 at level 3 (though since you only have 3 HD, it is limited to 3). When your about to enter Ultimate Magus at level 6 your caster level is 5 sorcerer, 4 wizard; thus your wizard side is progressed in both a caster level and a spell known level. When you are about to get Ultimate Magus 4, your cl for sorcerer and wizard are tied at 7, thus you get to choose which side you want to progress and lets say you choose wizard. Now when you are about to enter UM 7 your CL for Sorcerer is 9 and your CL for Wizard is 10 thus your sorcerer side will progress for a CL and SKL.

Makes Sense?

Thus in this above example a

Sorc 1/Wizard 4/UM 10/X 5
Who takes Practiced Spellcaster at lvl 3 will have a Spells Known of a 18th level wizard, the spells known of a 9th level sorcerer, the actual caster level of a 22th level wizard and the actual caster level of a 17th level sorcerer."

this is of course provided you take 5 more levels of wizard or anything that would boost wizard level (he did not specify what, ima assume just wizard)

Now, while I dont exactly understand all this, I showed this page to my DM and me and him tried to figure out what in the hell hes talkin about, and he said that this makes no sense.
Ive seen this forum post on various other boards and no one has contested that this is bs. So I naturally assume theres something here we just dont understand.
There was also how in the hell practiced spell caster made a difference at all, as it doesnt increase anything but caster level for the sake of spell penatration and doesnt affect spells/day or spells known. so even though at level 3 you take the practiced spell caster feat....and thats where i get lost.

All im looking for is an explanation of how this all works, how exactly did he get to casting as a 18th level wizard and 9th level sorcerer, and what is exactly the meaning of "caster level" in the case above.

Jeff the Green
2014-12-04, 08:34 PM
No, it works pretty unambiguously. "Caster level" is a unique number that is usually equal to your level in a spellcasting class + the levels in prestige classes that increase it, but it can be moved up or down by items, effects, or feats. Practiced Spellcaster increases caster level for all effects, not just spell resistance; the fact that it doesn't affect spells per day or spells known is irrelevant as Ultimate Magus specifically says it's based on caster level.

Tabris92
2014-12-04, 09:03 PM
No, it works pretty unambiguously. "Caster level" is a unique number that is usually equal to your level in a spellcasting class + the levels in prestige classes that increase it, but it can be moved up or down by items, effects, or feats. Practiced Spellcaster increases caster level for all effects, not just spell resistance; the fact that it doesn't affect spells per day or spells known is irrelevant as Ultimate Magus specifically says it's based on caster level.
So then, the caster level being higher before going into Ultimate Magus makes it so that when that Ultimate Magus increases it, you effectively just skip some caster levels? like, for example practiced spell caster makes you a level 4 sorcerer at level 3 (I think) so when you hit the first level of Magus, it makes you a sorcerer level 5.
Am I on the right track?

Oneris
2014-12-04, 09:05 PM
I've played this character before. Lemme try to organize this for you



Character Level
Spontaneous SpellsKnown/ Caster Level
Prepared SpellsKnown/ Caster Level
Ultimate Magus
Comments


3
Sorcerer 1/3
Wizard 2/2
-
Practiced Spellcaster Taken, applied to Sorcerer, Caster level raised to 3 (capped by character level)


4
Sorcerer 1/4
Wizard 3/3
-
Another level of Wizard Taken, Caster level of Sorcerer rises to 4 (still capped by character level)


5
Sorcerer 1/5
Wizard 4/4
-
Another level of Wizard Taken, CasterLevel of Sorcerer rises to 5, Practiced Spellcaster has no more effect


6
Sorcerer 1/6
Wizard 5/6
UM 1
UM increases SpellsKnown and CasterLevel of only the class with lower caster level. 4<5, so Wizard gets increased. UM then increases CasterLevel of both classes by +1


7
Sorcerer 2/7
Wizard 6/7
UM 2
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes. Sorcerer and Wizard are tied at CL7


8
Sorcerer 3/8
Wizard 7/8
UM 3
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes. Sorcerer and Wizard are tied at CL8


9
Sorcerer 3/9
Wizard 8/10
UM 4
UM only increase SpellsKnown and CasterLevel of class with lower CL. They're both tied at CL8, so you choose Wizard. UM then increases CL of both classes by +1


10
Sorcerer 4/10
Wizard 9/11
UM 5
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes. Sorcerer CL 10 < Wizard CL 11


11
Sorcerer 5/11
Wizard 10/12
UM6
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes. Sorcerer CL 11 < Wizard CL 12


12
Sorcerer 6/13
Wizard 10/13
UM7
UM only increase SpellsKnown and CasterLevel of class with lower CL. Sorcerer CL 11 < Wizard CL 12, so Sorcerer gets increased. UM then increases CL of both classes by +1


13
Sorcerer 7/14
Wizard 11/14
UM 8
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes.


14
Sorcerer 8/15
Wizard 12/15
UM 9
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes.


15
Sorcerer 9/17
Wizard 13/17
UM 10
SpellsKnown and CasterLevel +1 for both classes. UM then increases CL of both classes by +1


Then you take 5 more of a Prestige Class increasing prepared side only, for Prepared Spells known of 18, CL 22 and Spontaneous known of 9, CL 17

Tabris92
2014-12-04, 09:08 PM
Oneris, you are a life saver! having that organized like that really helps.
I get it a lot better now.
What would you propose as a another prestige class to take then?

ZamielVanWeber
2014-12-04, 09:09 PM
Practiced Spellcaster doesn't let your caster level exceed your character level.
A wizard 4/ sorcerer 1 with practiced spellcaster would have Wizard caster level 5 and sorcerer caster level 5.

Edit: ultimate ninja'd

Jeff the Green
2014-12-04, 09:11 PM
Practiced Spellcaster doesn't let your caster level exceed your character level.
A wizard 4/ sorcerer 1 with practiced spellcaster would have Wizard caster level 5 and sorcerer caster level 5.

Edit: ultimate ninja'd

It only applies to one class, so they'd have a Wizard CL of 4 (class level) and a sorcerer CL of 5 (class level + 4, capped at character level).

ZamielVanWeber
2014-12-04, 09:13 PM
This is what I get for being AFB. Sorry.