Knowledge (Vampires) of the gnome clerics from #968

[VanaGalen]

I'm a bit confused by that strip. Previously, The Giant posted a detailed description of vampire modus operandi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17327934&postcount=236), in which he says that nobody in-universe knows about that evil spirit possession thing.

Now in #968 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html), some low-level gnome cleric seems to be perfectly well-informed about the contents of Durkon's head. If vampires are so rare that there has been no case of resurrecting any single one of them before, and even Durkon didn't know about it before he was turned, then how come this gnome acolyte is aware of that?

[Koo Rehtorb]

No he said it's not common knowledge and that people shouldn't make assumptions that any given person would know about it.

And his statement was intentionally misleading.

[gom jabbarwocky]

Huh. Good catch. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since personally, I never let external commentary (even by the creator themselves) of a text color my reading of a text too much - I'd just chalk it up to the Giant being fast and loose with the rules he established since he never explicitly stated that this fact was unknowable, just implied it.

[Keltest]

You will notice that "Some Gnome Cleric" is not the highest ranking priest in the temple. That is consistent with the Giant's statement. He presumably pursued a very specific line of knowledge (read: seemingly useless feats) to obtain that information.

[VanaGalen]

However, it was explicitly stated in the comic that Durkon doesn't possess such information (or at least he didn't before his death). I know Durkon's knowledge (religion) is rather low, but still he has 10 levels more than the gnome cleric.


You will notice that "Some Gnome Cleric" is not the highest ranking priest in the temple. That is consistent with the Giant's statement. He presumably pursued a very specific line of knowledge (read: seemingly useless feats) to obtain that information.

And I don't think it's probable. In that case a) he would've been presented to Roy as a specialist in vampirology by the high priest and b) even if he specializes in vampires, he still would have to learn about it from somebody. I think it's highly unlikely a low-level gnome cleric could learn something known only to vampires.

So I'm still puzzled how exactly this gnome knows so much about vampires. Unless he's shapeshifted Sabine, or a vampire himself, or some other impossible explanation :smallconfused:

[archon_huskie]

yeah reread that.
Giant does not say that no body knows. the giant says that a person coming back from vampirization AND giving a detailed account the process AND that entering into common knowledge is not a thing that has happened.

so a level 5 gnomish cleric with skill focus Knowledge religion +3, access to a library +2, maximizing skill points for 5 levels +8, an 18 Int +4, could roll a 13 on skill check and make a DC30 check on vampires. and magic items to boost intelligence and he could hit 40.

[Jasdoif]

You might be interested in the much more recent quote about the subject:
My intended implication was that even among the clerics, this was not common knowledge; only 1 out of 4 knew. Maybe that one had Skill Focus (Knowledge (Religion)) or something.

[VanaGalen]

You might be interested in the much more recent quote about the subject:

Oh, I see. It seems then it's not so rare after all and Durkon was simply too lazy to learn it (which still is a bit strange, given his obsession with undead).

[Keltest]

Oh, I see. It seems then it's not so rare after all and Durkon was simply too lazy to learn it (which still is a bit strange, given his obsession with undead).

It has nothing to do with laziness. The information is such that you would basically have to specifically seek it out, and how many clerics are going to spend their feats trying to learn about the inner workings of vampires rather than, say, anything more likely to come up?

[NerdyKris]

Oh, I see. It seems then it's not so rare after all and Durkon was simply too lazy to learn it (which still is a bit strange, given his obsession with undead).

You're assuming that learning it is as simple as saying "I'm going to go check that book out of the library", when it's more like "I'm going to happen upon the ONE library in the entire world that happened to have a book that contained this information in it, and that library is located in this trading post".

Vampires are incredibly rare. This minor fact about them is not likely to be repeated and taught all over the world because who really cares? When are you ever going to see a vampire? It's more like something someone might have discovered and mentioned off hand in a book, and that gnome cleric happened to read that book at some point in his life.

People can't know everything, and in a world without the internet, information needs to be copied by hand. Information contained in a book is limited to the geographic vicinity of that book.

[zinycor]

You're assuming that learning it is as simple as saying "I'm going to go check that book out of the library", when it's more like "I'm going to happen upon the ONE library in the entire world that happened to have a book that contained this information in it, and that library is located in this trading post".

Vampires are incredibly rare. This minor fact about them is not likely to be repeated and taught all over the world because who really cares? When are you ever going to see a vampire? It's more like something someone might have discovered and mentioned off hand in a book, and that gnome cleric happened to read that book at some point in his life.

People can't know everything, and in a world without the internet, information needs to be copied by hand. Information contained in a book is limited to the geographic vicinity of that book.

Life without internet is hard

[NerdyKris]

Just imagine, not being able to simply google "How does Vampire work?"

[Porthos]

The answer here is really simple, in the case of Durkon. He has an abysmal Knowledge (Religion) score. That's it. That's why he didn't know, even though he had a lot of levels on the random archivist. One can be obsessed with undead and yet not be very good at finding out how they tick in the more obscure areas. Maybe Durkon is more concerned with Practice than Theory.

Or maybe he was just a bad student. :smalltongue:


Just imagine, not being able to simply google "How does Vampire work?"

Even having access to Google isn't everything. Knowing how to best use Google is what separates the wheat from the chaff. For example:

Google, how do Vampires work?
*gets 400 hits about how vamps suck blood*
*gets 100 hits about Vampire discrimination in the work force*
*gets 1000 hits about really yucky Vampire erotic fiction*

To put it another way, the trick to using Google is knowing the right question to ask and to be able to ignore all the crud out there.

Which can still be simulated by a Knowledge check. :smallwink:

[littlebum2002]

I think it's highly unlikely a low-level gnome cleric could learn something known only to vampires.


It's also highly unlikely that Qarr would be able to summon a demon which was strong enough to challenge the Order and that Haley would roll a natural 20 to hit Nale.

Isn't that interesting that unlikely things still happen?

[Darth Paul]

Oh, I see. It seems then it's not so rare after all and Durkon was simply too lazy to learn it (which still is a bit strange, given his obsession with undead).

Still not that strange; you don't have to know how their inner minds work in order to bash their inner minds out with a big hammer. Durkon's obssession is with destroying, not any other facet.

[DaggerPen]

We get more on that particular gnome here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18435881#post18435881), if you're curious.

[factotum]

Hold on a sec. Apart from the early joke strip where Durkon kept mis-hearing anything anyone said as being some sort of undead attack, when has Durkon shown himself to be obsessed with undead? Obsessed with *trees*, maybe, not undead.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Durkon, from nearly the beginning, has shown poor knowledge (religion), and hasn't be shown to be any more interested in it. In addition, he really doesn't have that much if a focus on undead theory, so he doesn't have much of a non-religious reason to take it. The gnome cleric is clearly someone who wants to know a lot about vampires and has spent skill points and feats to do so. It is natural that he would know more than most. To be fair, The Giant's original statement misled me too, but his reasoning for this gnome having extra knowledge is sound.

[VanaGalen]

Still not that strange; you don't have to know how their inner minds work in order to bash their inner minds out with a big hammer. Durkon's obssession is with destroying, not any other facet.

You're right, Durkon is a dwarf of action. Probably clerics of Thor aren't encouraged to devote their time to study anyway.


Hold on a sec. Apart from the early joke strip where Durkon kept mis-hearing anything anyone said as being some sort of undead attack, when has Durkon shown himself to be obsessed with undead? Obsessed with *trees*, maybe, not undead.

Well, until Malack happened, Durkon hasn't really had a chance to encounter any undead. He was away with Hinjo during the Azure City arc, so he didn't have a chance to show it.
However, his attitude towards Malack changes drastically when he learns the truth. He goes from "we're best buddies, even though you worship some creepy deity" to "I'm so going to destroy you now, and I'm not listening to anything you might have to say about it". Imagine what it would be like if not Durkon, but somebody else had been turned. Durkon definitely wouldn't be so cool with it as the rest of the party is now, in fact he would be much worse than Belkar.


It's also highly unlikely that Qarr would be able to summon a demon which was strong enough to challenge the Order and that Haley would roll a natural 20 to hit Nale.

Isn't that interesting that unlikely things still happen?

One-in-a-million-chance things do and should happen to main characters, however if they happen to NPCs, it's deux ex machina, which isn't so great.


We get more on that particular gnome here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18435881#post18435881), if you're curious.

And the story about the gnome is just adorable, thank you for posting it here :smallsmile:

[littlebum2002]

One-in-a-million-chance things do and should happen to main characters, however if they happen to NPCs, it's deux ex machina, which isn't so great.



There are (presumably) millions of NPC Clerics in the world. The fact that ONE of them would know about vampires is pretty much a certainty. Therefore, it is a one-in-a-million chance that the Order just happened to talk with the one cleric in a million who knows about vampires.

The main characters lucked out. The Cleric is just a statistic.

[Jay R]

Oh, I see. It seems then it's not so rare after all and Durkon was simply too lazy to learn it (which still is a bit strange, given his obsession with undead).

A. It is not true that in a pre-Internet society every bit of knowledge is available to every person. Eratosthenes was able to accurately measure the Earth, because the library at Alexandria had a description of a specific well in Syene. Without that specific item of knowledge, he could not have done it. There is no encyclopedia Vampirica in which one could look up how vampires work.

B. Can you show one bit of evidence from any strip at all in which Durkon shows knowledge of undead not shared by everybody? I don't remember him being shown to have above-average knowledge in this area.

[Emperordaniel]

However, his attitude towards Malack changes drastically when he learns the truth. He goes from "we're best buddies, even though you worship some creepy deity" to "I'm so going to destroy you now, and I'm not listening to anything you might have to say about it". Imagine what it would be like if not Durkon, but somebody else had been turned. Durkon definitely wouldn't be so cool with it as the rest of the party is now, in fact he would be much worse than Belkar.

*sigh*

Durkon wasn't angry at Malack because he was undead, Durkon was angry at Malack because he was drinking the blood of someone who - as far as he knew - was innocent, and because he then admitted to basically manipulating the judicial system just to benefit his own ends. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14785214&postcount=197)

[Niknokitueu]

Imagine what it would be like if not Durkon, but somebody else had been turned. Durkon definitely wouldn't be so cool with it as the rest of the party is now, in fact he would be much worse than Belkar.

:Roy: "Oh noes, Elan has been turned into a vampire!"
:Durkon: "Right. You lot hold him down so I can stake him, and I'll raise him back as Elan."

Not really worse than Belkar, then.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[factotum]

However, his attitude towards Malack changes drastically when he learns the truth. He goes from "we're best buddies, even though you worship some creepy deity" to "I'm so going to destroy you now, and I'm not listening to anything you might have to say about it".

As EmperorDaniel points out, that was nothing to do with Malack being undead. If Malack had not been a vampire, and Durkon had stumbled onto a scene of him pricking the helpless Belkar with a knife to cause him to slowly bleed to death, do you seriously imagine that his reaction would have been any different?

[Koo Rehtorb]

Conversely if Durkon had found out that Malack was a vampire without Malack currently being in the middle of doing something evil do you really think his reaction would have been, "Oh you're a vampire? Sure that's fine, I guess."?

[Keltest]

Conversely if Durkon had found out that Malack was a vampire without Malack currently being in the middle of doing something evil do you really think his reaction would have been, "Oh you're a vampire? Sure that's fine, I guess."?

Frankly I doubt Durkon would have reacted with anything more than minor unease, and maybe not even that once he gets past the vampire stereotypes. It is quite obviously possible for a Vampire cleric to live without marauding around villages at night, killing people and seducing women.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Frankly I doubt Durkon would have reacted with anything more than minor unease, and maybe not even that once he gets past the vampire stereotypes. It is quite obviously possible for a Vampire cleric to live without marauding around villages at night, killing people and seducing women.

Well, in my own opinion, I think that's radically misinterpreting the character. Durkon may not have attacked him on the spot over it, but I'm pretty sure that he'd completely reevaluate Malack and anyone who associates with Malack. I believe he'd also launch a thorough investigation to uncover any midnight marauding trips Malack might happen to be performing, time permitting, of course.

[littlebum2002]

Conversely if Durkon had found out that Malack was a vampire without Malack currently being in the middle of doing something evil do you really think his reaction would have been, "Oh you're a vampire? Sure that's fine, I guess."?

According to the writer of the story, yes. And considering it is impossible for Durkon to do ANYTHING unless Rich decides he is going to do it, then I'd say that's exactly what Durkon would have done. Of course, he would have probably had to make sure Malack wasn't evil, because even though it is "wrong" to hate someone just for being a vampire, it isn't "wrong" to hate them for being evil.

[Jay R]

:Roy: "Oh noes, Elan has been turned into a vampire!"
:Durkon: "Right. You lot hold him down so I can stake him, and I'll raise him back as Elan."

Not really worse than Belkar, then.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

But they would have believed that he was Elan, and who knows what troubles the High Priest of Banjo would have been able to cause first?

[Keltest]

But they would have believed that he was Elan, and who knows what troubles the High Priest of Banjo would have been able to cause first?

Something youre forgetting is the staff. That removes a massive penalty to vampires: their inability to operate in the sunlight. Even if vampires were actually the same person, just consumed with bloodlust, that would be a big reason to return them to normal, no matter who they were. Otherwise Durkon would be unable to help in any outdoor fights in the daytime, and even travel could become quite complicated, since you could only do it at night, and you have to find a campsite with an area that wont be exposed to sunlight.

[NerdyKris]

Durkon can raise Elan. Elan can't raise Durkon. There's a big difference between staking and raising Elan while Durkon is there and capable of immediately rectifying the situation, and killing their only cleric when they're in a hurry and might not run into another cleric of sufficient level for weeks or possibly months.

[Koo Rehtorb]

According to the writer of the story, yes.

That's not what he said, though? What he said was that that wasn't happening in that specific scene, not that Durkon would not do it if the scene had been a different one.

"If Durkon had done X it would be racism but Durkon did not happen to do X" does not imply "Durkon would not do X."

[Grey Watcher]

Or maybe [Durkon] was just a bad student. :smalltongue:

I took this to be the case, given that, in the flashback to the lesson on Domains (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0954.html), he looks bored to the point of falling asleep. (And, of course, that he has so few ranks in Knowledge (Religion), that a priestess of his god's arch-rival doesn't even register as noteworthy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html).)

[factotum]

"If Durkon had done X it would be racism but Durkon did not happen to do X" does not imply "Durkon would not do X."

Maybe not, but the fact the writer of the comic went to the trouble of posting a rebuttal to a comment that Durkon was racist suggests said writer does not *want* Durkon to be seen that way--so, perforce, he wouldn't write him doing a racist thing. Since X is racist by your own admission, therefore, Durkon would not do X.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Maybe not, but the fact the writer of the comic went to the trouble of posting a rebuttal to a comment that Durkon was racist suggests said writer does not *want* Durkon to be seen that way--so, perforce, he wouldn't write him doing a racist thing. Since X is racist by your own admission, therefore, Durkon would not do X.

Rich has made misleading comments plenty of times.

For example, suggesting that no one in the world knows how vampires work. Or that Malack and vampire-spirit Malack aren't different beings.

[Jay R]

Something youre forgetting is the staff. That removes a massive penalty to vampires: their inability to operate in the sunlight. Even if vampires were actually the same person, just consumed with bloodlust, that would be a big reason to return them to normal, no matter who they were. Otherwise Durkon would be unable to help in any outdoor fights in the daytime, and even travel could become quite complicated, since you could only do it at night, and you have to find a campsite with an area that wont be exposed to sunlight.

I'm not "forgetting" it. It just has nothing to do with a silly joke that the vampire spirit that took over Elan's body would be a High Priest of Banjo.

[VanaGalen]

I don't think Durkon's greatest concern about Malack is that he attacked Belkar. When they start fighting, Durkon doesn't say anything like "how could you attack one of my allies?", but he does instead say "I can't believe you never told me you're undead". Also, Malack immediately leaves Belkar and offers a peaceful solution. Durkon says no to all Malack's attempts at negotiations, and what reason he gives for his denial? "Because you're a vampire!"
The only solution Durkon is willing to accept is to kill and resurrect Malack.

So no, Durkon wasn't OK with it when his friend turned out to be a vampire, and he wouldn't be OK if one of his group were turned into vampire.

Also, since turning Durkon into vampire eventually was planned and a fixed thing since strip #2, I think it makes sense he hates them. It makes the event more fun after all.


As for Elan being turned into vampire, wouldn't it be Banjthulhu who sends him the spirit?

[DaggerPen]

I don't think Durkon's greatest concern about Malack is that he attacked Belkar. When they start fighting, Durkon doesn't say anything like "how could you attack one of my allies?", but he does instead say "I can't believe you never told me you're undead". Also, Malack immediately leaves Belkar and offers a peaceful solution. Durkon says no to all Malack's attempts at negotiations, and what reason he gives for his denial? "Because you're a vampire!"
The only solution Durkon is willing to accept is to kill and resurrect Malack.

So no, Durkon wasn't OK with it when his friend turned out to be a vampire, and he wouldn't be OK if one of his group were turned into vampire.

Also, since turning Durkon into vampire eventually was planned and a fixed thing since strip #2, I think it makes sense he hates them. It makes the event more fun after all.

Malack being a vampire may have had something to do with it, but remember that he followed it up with "Yer a danger ta everyone livin' on this continent! An' e'en if'n I ignor'd tha, ye still cannae be 'llowed ta seize this place!"

To bring back an old favorite of mine, even if Durkon had just kind of shrugged off Malack's vampirism, I'd have expected something more like this:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Not true! I source my blood only from convicted criminals!
:durkon:: Well, I s'ppose I find nothin' suspicious about tha', even though ye helped set up th' courts in tha first place. But vampirism is still unnatural!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Really, Brother Thundershield, I'm hurt. I know my condition can be unsettling for the living, but I'm as civilized as any other being, living or undead. You had no objections to me before you knew I was a vampire - why should this change anything?
:durkon:: I... guess tha's true. I ne'er really thought about it. Perhaps... I haf been a bit quick ta judge.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: I appreciate your taking the time to reconsider, Brother Thundershield. You know, we undead aren't all bad.
:durkon:: I unnerstan'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ...
:durkon:: ... of course, there's still tha matter of tha part where ye just tried ta kill me teammate.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Ah. Yes, that.
:durkon:: And o' tha flamestrike ye hit my team wit'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: And that.
:durkon:: An' tha fact that ye're workin' wit' Nale.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Well, I get to kill him after the mission is over.
:durkon:: What, after ye've killed me friends?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: In fairness, Tarquin will probably let most of them live.
:durkon:: Oh, so after ye've ruthlessly crushed me team, taken us prisoner an' seized control of tha prison sealing in a god-killing abomination, and prevented us from tryin' ta defend tha Gate from an evil sorceror who wants ta use it ta take over tha world?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Is there an answer to this that doesn't end with us fighting?
:durkon:: Depends. Are any o' them "Oh, ye're right, Durkon, I'll take my team an' leave right now!"
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ... no.
:durkon:: Then no.

So yeah. While I don't doubt Durkon's opinion on vampires before this was "Kill it! Kill it!", I don't think it's fair to say that it was his primary motivation for turning down Malack's glorified requests for surrender.

[Porthos]

@DaggerPen: A+, 5/5, Would Read Again. :smallsmile:

===

To dust off what I've said before, I don't think one can ignore the feelings of betrayal, either. Durkon had just moments ago, from his perspective, strongly defended Malack going as far as to say he'd never be a part of a scheme like this. He probably even considered Malack a friend. To then see this newly found friend treating Belkar like a McFlurry? And be a part of (from his perspective) a scheme to take over the world (why else would Malack be after the Gate)?

Well... Let's just I can see why he might have been a tad cranky. :smallwink: It might not be the same as "a lover, scorned". But it's not entirely different, either. Throw in some guilt at "not seeing the truth about Malack" as an added twist of the dagger and it's a wonder that Durkon was as level headed about this as he was.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Malack being a vampire may have had something to do with it, but remember that he followed it up with "Yer a danger ta everyone livin' on this continent! An' e'en if'n I ignor'd tha, ye still cannae be 'llowed ta seize this place!"

To bring back an old favorite of mine, even if Durkon had just kind of shrugged off Malack's vampirism, I'd have expected something more like this:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Not true! I source my blood only from convicted criminals!
:durkon:: Well, I s'ppose I find nothin' suspicious about tha', even though ye helped set up th' courts in tha first place. But vampirism is still unnatural!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Really, Brother Thundershield, I'm hurt. I know my condition can be unsettling for the living, but I'm as civilized as any other being, living or undead. You had no objections to me before you knew I was a vampire - why should this change anything?
:durkon:: I... guess tha's true. I ne'er really thought about it. Perhaps... I haf been a bit quick ta judge.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: I appreciate your taking the time to reconsider, Brother Thundershield. You know, we undead aren't all bad.
:durkon:: I unnerstan'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ...
:durkon:: ... of course, there's still tha matter of tha part where ye just tried ta kill me teammate.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Ah. Yes, that.
:durkon:: And o' tha flamestrike ye hit my team wit'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: And that.
:durkon:: An' tha fact that ye're workin' wit' Nale.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Well, I get to kill him after the mission is over.
:durkon:: What, after ye've killed me friends?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: In fairness, Tarquin will probably let most of them live.
:durkon:: Oh, so after ye've ruthlessly crushed me team, taken us prisoner an' seized control of tha prison sealing in a god-killing abomination, and prevented us from tryin' ta defend tha Gate from an evil sorceror who wants ta use it ta take over tha world?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Is there an answer to this that doesn't end with us fighting?
:durkon:: Depends. Are any o' them "Oh, ye're right, Durkon, I'll take my team an' leave right now!"
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ... no.
:durkon:: Then no.

So yeah. While I don't doubt Durkon's opinion on vampires before this was "Kill it! Kill it!", I don't think it's fair to say that it was his primary motivation for turning down Malack's glorified requests for surrender.

That was wonderful. Headcannoned. :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

Meanwhile, the topic of the thread is how widespread the knowledge of vampires is.

I suspect that the likelihood of a priest knowing about vampires is determined by one of the most crucial universal laws, as explicated by a twentieth century philosopher:

“No, not any time. Only when it was funny (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5mU0HfI2jQ).”

[Cizak]

Also, Malack immediately leaves Belkar and offers a peaceful solution. Durkon says no to all Malack's attempts at negotiations, and what reason he gives for his denial? "Because you're a vampire!"

Durkon says no to all of Malack's "compromises" because they weren't really compromises at all. They were all downsides for the Order.

"The two of us do not attack each other." Oh how nice, so if you start biting the heads off of my teammates I'll just ignore that instead of trying to stop you.
"The two of us do not partake in battle." Sounds nice and even! The Order loses it's (second?) most powerful member and goes down to one-half fighting power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html) while the Guild still has Tarquin who has proven to be able to hold his own against five of us.
"Abandon your quest and let Tarquin have the gate." Do I even need to state the reason why this isn't an option?

While walking corpses who feed on the living are horrifying, what truly frightened me most when #872 was uploaded was how many posters sided with Malack.

[breathandpaper]

But they would have believed that he was Elan, and who knows what troubles the High Priest of Banjo would have been able to cause first?

High Priest Of Giggles The Clown?

Now someone please draw vampire Elan worshippIng Giggles.

[BaronOfHell]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Not true! I source my blood only from convicted criminals!
:durkon:: Well, I s'ppose I find nothin' suspicious about tha', even though ye helped set up th' courts in tha first place. But vampirism is still unnatural!
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Really, Brother Thundershield, I'm hurt. I know my condition can be unsettling for the living, but I'm as civilized as any other being, living or undead. You had no objections to me before you knew I was a vampire - why should this change anything?
:durkon:: I... guess tha's true. I ne'er really thought about it. Perhaps... I haf been a bit quick ta judge.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: I appreciate your taking the time to reconsider, Brother Thundershield. You know, we undead aren't all bad.
:durkon:: I unnerstan'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ...
:durkon:: ... of course, there's still tha matter of tha part where ye just tried ta kill me teammate.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Ah. Yes, that.
:durkon:: And o' tha flamestrike ye hit my team wit'.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: And that.
:durkon:: An' tha fact that ye're workin' wit' Nale.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Well, I get to kill him after the mission is over.
:durkon:: What, after ye've killed me friends?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: In fairness, Tarquin will probably let most of them live.
:durkon:: Oh, so after ye've ruthlessly crushed me team, taken us prisoner an' seized control of tha prison sealing in a god-killing abomination, and prevented us from tryin' ta defend tha Gate from an evil sorceror who wants ta use it ta take over tha world?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: Is there an answer to this that doesn't end with us fighting?
:durkon:: Depends. Are any o' them "Oh, ye're right, Durkon, I'll take my team an' leave right now!"
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png: ... no.
:durkon:: Then no.


Well written and a joy to read. Thanks!