Ex-Antipaladin: How can you make it not go to waste?

[Xuldarinar]

For sake of example; suppose you had an antipaladin who had a change of heart and now seeks redemption. Without converting antipaladin levels to paladin, what can be done here so that he has a bit more to work with from those lost levels aside from proficiencies, saves, attack bonus, and a bad reputation?


Worst comes to worst, I'll get no feedback that evidences a way to put those levels to use and perhaps i'll brew something to fit the niche.

[Snowbluff]

Well you can always go into Blackg- ... wait. :l

[Xuldarinar]

Well you can always go into Blackg- ... wait. :l

Yeah.. it needs an update and power boost in a serious way, and doesn't fit with them starting on a path to redemption. Throwing that out and allowing for minor conversions since 3.5 is comparable with PF.. it is something, I will give you that. Then again, bone knight could do much the same if I am not mistaken.

[facelessminion]

Convert them into levels of Warpriest.

[Xuldarinar]

Convert them into levels of Warpriest.

Is there a precedent beyond retraining?

[Snowbluff]

Yeah.. it needs an update and power boost in a serious way, and doesn't fit with them starting on a path to redemption. Throwing that out and allowing for minor conversions since 3.5 is comparable with PF.. it is something, I will give you that. Then again, bone knight could do much the same if I am not mistaken.

Well, Blackguard is actually a power boost if you're an 11th level paladin. Since it was a 3.5 base PrC, it has a bunch of spell support in the Fiendish Codex, BoVD, Spell Compendium, etc. You can also get yourself a draconic mount from the Draconomicon. Paladin1/Blackguard10 is a great build.

Now, my concern is that there is no Good variant. Of course, if there was every single paladin would take it. It's a straight upgrade. You get to level, turn in your levels for the same abilities and faster spell progression. Oh, and your servant scales off of Character level rather than Class level. You are also no longer held to a Code of Conduct.

[Abd al-Azrad]

I can't find anything RAW that allows dead Antipaladin levels to be put toward another purpose. The best an Antipaladin can really do is atone for their mis-misdeeds. Paladins can convert to Antipaladins, but not vice versa.

There are loads of options, of course, for reflavouring existing classes or PrCs to accommodate this sort of change. I imagine converting lost Antipaladin levels into Low Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/low-templar), Gray Warden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/gray-warden) or Inquisitor would be a fun modification.

[Psyren]

I can't find anything RAW that allows dead Antipaladin levels to be put toward another purpose.

Retraining is RAW actually, and it fits this both mechanically and thematically. Inquisitor, Cleric, Fighter and Warpriest should all have synergy.

[Baroncognito]

Retraining is RAW actually, and it fits this both mechanically and thematically. Inquisitor, Cleric, Fighter and Warpriest should all have synergy.

Except that anti-paladins don't necessarily have good Wisdom scores. Depending upon the base stats (which cannot be retrained) Bard or Eldritch Scion might be a better fit.

[Psyren]

Except that anti-paladins don't necessarily have good Wisdom scores. Depending upon the base stats (which cannot be retrained) Bard or Eldritch Scion might be a better fit.

True, though if they at least started close to one another, you can retrain your level-based ability score increases from Cha to Wis and then swap out your items.

[Baroncognito]

But since antipaladins get good will saves and charisma to all saves, I imagine most of them don't really focus on having a wisdom score higher than 10.

[Psyren]

Indeed, this is very likely. So you may have to retrain to a Cha-based class and take the synergy hit.

[ericgrau]

Well you can always go into Blackg- ... wait. :l
Homebrew whitestriker PrC? Fluff: assaults the evil it once supported, uses inside contacts, knowledge of weaknesses and general knowledge of them.

Should probably be str and cha based whatever you go into ya.

[NightbringerGGZ]

You could talk to your GM about a side quest that pushes you towards becoming a Paladin. Perhaps one that involves a mountain and some ordeals.

[Blackhawk748]

Allow him to become an Ordained Champion and do what Paladins get to do with Blackguard levels?

[Spore]

Give him a template? If it's not a PC because then a good template is too powerful at first but scales too poorly. He is not divine nor mundane. His soul is rejected by the good planes and he is actively trying to escapes the evil planes he swore allegiance too.

1) Maybe some sort of immortality or at least an incredibly increased life span? Eternal fits that purpose. He cannot die yet finds his immortality a curse. This option isn't for players (or at least not inexperienced DMs).

2) Make him Advanced. He trains a lot to recoup from his power loss. After all he still has to fight his inner demons (as well as literal ones). +4 to all attributes is a huge boon to a mundane fighter but still a terrible bargain for an Antipaladin.

3) Make him Soulless. He bargained his soul for power and now he is nothing without the offered power OR his soul.

Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates

Or give him a favored enemy (Evil outsiders) with a Ranger level at his total HD.

[Snowbluff]

Allow him to become an Ordained Champion and do what Paladins get to do with Blackguard levels?

They get to trade the levels for all four levels of casting in 10 levels. After that, you get LoH based on your character level if you have 3 Paladin levels after that, which is better for the PF Paladin.

[Baroncognito]

The Evangelist class has been brought to my attention. It's an interesting way to make any class somewhat divinely inspired.

You could definitely role play a character rededicating (appropriate pronoun)self to a different god using Eldritch Scion or Bard as a base and then going the Evangelist Prestige class.

[Bob of Mage]

I like the idea of a homebrew anti-Blackguard. You can reflavour the stuff it gets to good versions. It would also need some work to be up to the Pathfinder level of course.

It would be best if such a class was only open to those who really once evil, but became good. This would also lead to neat flavouring with things like sneak attack. You could keep it to show how the PC/NPC fights to win and gives no mercy to evil doers, since he/she knows they give none in return. There could be an option to do non-lethal damage with the sneak attack, or a replacement attack, to show how he/she has found it in there heart to have mercy even for a hated foe.