Wand of Frog

[CyberThread]

Deals one frog on touch

[pwykersotz]

But is it subject to Toad Resistance? RAW Frog is stated to be a green lump that says Ribbit. Toad meets this qualification, but there's no specification.

Also, is the Frog consumed in the creation of the wand?

[Rallicus]

But is it subject to Toad Resistance? RAW Frog is stated to be a green lump that says Ribbit. Toad meets this qualification, but there's no specification.

Also, is the Frog consumed in the creation of the wand?

DM discretion. Mearls says yes to all of the above, but also notes that the DM makes the final call.

I personally feel Wand of Frog is a much needed boost to low-end martials. Deal the one frog on touch with your bonus action, followed by your regular attack actions at advantage. The frog is a great means to force advantage with no saving throw once per turn.

Casters make say that it makes certain advantage/disadvantage spells useless, like Faerie Fire, but nobody cares what casters have to say. You had your edition(s), chumps. Step aside.

[Human Paragon 3]

Wand of Frog is a trap. It requires attunement and uses up your bonus action? Most martials have something better to do on their bonus action than deal one frog, and advantage is easy enough to get anyway. Whether it counts on toads is irrelevant.

[Gnomes2169]

Ah, but if it counts with toads, then they inflict the poisoned condition as well, and nothing excludes a toad as a unit of frog. In fact, if you look on twitter, Mearls said that toad is supposed to be a subtype of frog, and that the difference is flavor text! (Though it's still up to DM discretion)

So I think it's absolutely vital to know if the wand of frog can inflict one frog (toad) of damage, or if it is limited to just frog (treefrog) instead.

[Yorrin]

Wand of Frog is a trap. It requires attunement and uses up your bonus action? Most martials have something better to do on their bonus action than deal one frog, and advantage is easy enough to get anyway. Whether it counts on toads is irrelevant.

This is a common misconception- Wand of Frog gives huge utility to non-casters in noncombat situations that they sorely need. One Frog is fine when fighting, but imagine one Frog on touch to a shopkeeper or prison guard or the like. Casters have other options for these situations, but mundanes without expertise don't have an answer outside of Wand of Frog.

[bloodshed343]

You're forgetting the Wand of Frog's interaction to the oft overlooked toad expert feat, which allows a free action ribbit upon dealing toad. This potentially is more powerful than a 9th level Scorching Ray for a 20th level fighter who can use his remaining attack actions at advantage with +2 hops to damage.

[JAL_1138]

You're forgetting the Wand of Frog's interaction to the oft overlooked toad expert feat, which allows a free action ribbit upon dealing toad. This potentially is more powerful than a 9th level Scorching Ray for a 20th level fighter who can use his remaining attack actions at advantage with +2 hops to damage.

With Toad Expert, can it deal Giant Frog? If so, it can potentially remove a Small creature from combat until it escapes the Giant Frog's stomach. Even if it can't deal Giant Frog, it could deal Bullfrog, which is fantastic against Pixies.

[bloodshed343]

With Toad Expert, can it deal Giant Frog? If so, it can potentially remove a Small creature from combat until it escapes the Giant Frog's stomach. Even if it can't deal Giant Frog, it could deal Bullfrog, which is fantastic against Pixies.

It can deal both Giant Toad and Giant Frog by RaW, although Mearls tweeted that only Giant Toad is intended, which is still effective against goblins.

However, it explicitly can do Horny Toad, which is better than the charm spell for seduction.

[Cazero]

This is a common misconception- Wand of Frog gives huge utility to non-casters in noncombat situations that they sorely need. One Frog is fine when fighting, but imagine one Frog on touch to a shopkeeper or prison guard or the like. Casters have other options for these situations, but mundanes without expertise don't have an answer outside of Wand of Frog.

Concerning out of combat utility, the DMG does not explicitly state if dealing a Frog is considered an hostile action. If it is the case, the actual results of the options you suggest would be drastically different, especially with a range of touch.

[Naanomi]

This is a common misconception- Wand of Frog gives huge utility to non-casters in noncombat situations that they sorely need. One Frog is fine when fighting, but imagine one Frog on touch to a shopkeeper or prison guard or the like. Casters have other options for these situations, but mundanes without expertise don't have an answer outside of Wand of Frog.
Like everything, casters can do that better and have their regular option. Necromancer zombifying a free frog? Warlock thrall a frog? Mundane characters just dont have tricks like that.

BTW can you guys help me balance my homebrew Lore of Frogs bard subclass?

[Freelance GM]

Like everything, casters can do that better and have their regular option. Necromancer zombifying a free frog? Warlock thrall a frog? Mundane characters just dont have tricks like that.

BTW can you guys help me balance my homebrew Lore of Frogs bard subclass?

You forgot to mention the Frog Bloodline for Sorcerers, and the Druid Circle of the Frog. Not only do they get all the perks of being full casters, but they can also deal out more Frogs than any mundane build.

[Justin Sane]

Wait, I'm froggin' confused. What's this about?

[Anderlith]

Not to mention a now sorely needed "Way of the Frog" style for the monk. It would allow them to Flurry of Frog & help them stay on the same power level as those with Wand of Frog

[Jeraa]

Wait, I'm froggin' confused. What's this about?

There is a picture of a wand in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Its a frog tied to a stick. (Wand of Polymorph, I believe.)

[Naanomi]

Not to mention a now sorely needed "Way of the Frog" style for the monk. It would allow them to Flurry of Frog & help them stay on the same power level as those with Wand of Frog
Hopefully future splats will give us Oath of the Toad and Amphibean Pact that were promised to be in the DMG but never made an appearance.

[bloodshed343]

Hopefully future splats will give us Oath of the Toad and Amphibean Pact that were promised to be in the DMG but never made an appearance.

The Amphibean pact is focused on very large beans rather than the small, green, amphibians. You're thinking of the Small Warty One.

[Fra Antonio]

Not to mention a now sorely needed "Way of the Frog" style for the monk. It would allow them to Flurry of Frog & help them stay on the same power level as those with Wand of Frog
I don't know what this frog whining is all about - all this mundane frog synergy options will no doubt come with the Complete Frogdealer splatbook. I'm especially hyped for Frog Knight. The freaking FROG KNIGHT!!!
http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/chronotriggerelite/pics/glenndrawsmasamune.jpg

[Kerrin]

Ah, but the Rod of Toad, now THAT'S a magic item!

[Gnomes2169]

... This is why this is my favorite subforum. :smallbiggrin:

[Celcey]

Ah, but the Rod of Toad, now THAT'S a magic item!

Of please, that thing only does poison damage, and literally EVERYTHING has resistance to poison. The WoF does piercing damage, but it's counted as magical in regards to overcoming resistance, AND it can do Toads.

[Anderlith]

Don't forget that Wand of Frog. also has reach sure WoT has poison but WoF 's reach come in more handy.

Though to be fair Tome of Toad does have its merits

[bloodshed343]

Don't forget that Wand of Frog. also has reach sure WoT has poison but WoF 's reach come in more handy.

Though to be fair Tome of Toad does have its merits

The staff of salamander however is clearly underpowered for an artifact.

[Celcey]

The staff of salamander however is clearly underpowered for an artifact.
Staff of Salamander does have its benefits, though. It may only deal a little bit of fire damage (again, a common resist), but they're useful for short range-spying, even if they don't last long. And you can have more than one at once, which is nice. It also helps if you're playing in a desert (or any hot, dry climate), because they last longer, but they're useful anywhere.

[Dalebert]

I get the feeling that the way this thread reads to me is how just about any thread on these forums would read to anyone who doesn't play D&D. :smallbiggrin:

[Naanomi]

Though to be fair Tome of Toad does have its merits
Only if you didn't bother to take the feat, otherwise they don't stack.

Although... with the wording on the Tome could a Grippli or Bullywug use themselves to trigger the toad instead of needing the wand at all? If so, time to figure out their stats as a PC race!

[unwise]

With no touch AC in 5e it is hard to determine what really constitues a touch to summon the frog.

Effectively a PC can 'touch' somebody even without beating their AC, that means this is...

FROG ON A MISS and it IS DESTROYING THE GAME!

Also, I'm so sick of all you power gamers using the frog just as a set of stats. In my game we explore the hopes and dreams of the summoned frog, it is not just a set of stats, it is a ROLEplaying game people, not ROLLplaying, sheesh.

[bloodshed343]

With no touch AC in 5e it is hard to determine what really constitues a touch to summon the frog.

Effectively a PC can 'touch' somebody even without beating their AC, that means this is...

FROG ON A MISS and it IS DESTROYING THE GAME!

Also, I'm so sick of all you power gamers using the frog just as a set of stats. In my game we explore the hopes and dreams of the summoned frog, it is not just a set of stats, it is a ROLEplaying game people, not ROLLplaying, sheesh.

Wand of Frog doesn't summon a frog. It deals one frog on touch. This is significantly more powerful, since it could also deal toad if you need it to.

Dealing frog on a miss is potentially the most game-breaking exploit in the history of D&D. It makes Pun-pun look balanced.

[Sir_Leorik]

But is there anything in the DMG about the Eye of Kermit?

[pwykersotz]

But is there anything in the DMG about the Eye of Kermit?

(Hahahahaha, finally lost it at Eye of Kermit :smallbiggrin:)

[Safety Sword]

I can already hear the whinging that will come because martial characters can't use the Wand of Frog.

[Kane0]

... This is why this is my favorite subforum. :smallbiggrin:

+1
/10char

[Gnomes2169]

For a more martial spin to things, how about the bolts and of newt? I think the ability to potentially deal the equivalent of two frogs and a toad in one shot goes a long way towards taking the power back from casters, and the fact that the ammunition isn't expended (the newt ties itself back on, after all) makes it border-line game breaking.

As well, with bewts being so potent, how will enemies get better? I think WotC needs to sit down and rethink their "uncommon" magical ammunition a little more.

[JAL_1138]

I can already hear the whinging that will come because martial characters can't use the Wand of Frog.

They totally can by RAW though. It doesn't have charges, require frog to be on your class' spell list, or use your action to cast it--if you can touch with it, it deals one frog. Mearls and Crawford both confirmed this was intended. Mearls also tweeted it could really help martial classes in amphibian-heavy adventures like Temple of the Frog from Supplement II: Blackmoor.

[Kerrin]

Ah, but in The Amphibians of Blackmoore book it clearly states that the Rod of Toad can have all of its daily charges expended to summon a Hypnotoad which will immediately initiate a psionic duel with a target of the weilder's choosing.

Besides, the Tome of Toad may be nice, but it does have its warts.

[Dalebert]

Ah, but in The Amphibians of Blackmoore book it clearly states that the Rod of Toad can have all of its daily charges expended to summon a Hypnotoad which will immediately initiate a psionic duel with a target of the weilder's choosing.

Now see, this is why I think the Wand of Frog is OP. No one item or spell should be capable of dealing both frog and psychic damage.

[unwise]

This is what I love about 5e, you simply deal a frog to somebody, it could not be simpler or cleaner than that. It can't get more obvious how that plays out in practice.

In 3.5 you had to worry about what type of frog it was, was it poisonous, what stage of its life cycle it was, was it hibernating or not...and don't even get me started on the rules for Tadpole infliction (bloody splat books). I have seen so many fights over whether or not that even counted as an enfrogenation.

[JAL_1138]

Ah, but in The Amphibians of Blackmoore book it clearly states that the Rod of Toad can have all of its daily charges expended to summon a Hypnotoad which will immediately initiate a psionic duel with a target of the weilder's choosing.

Besides, the Tome of Toad may be nice, but it does have its warts.


Now see, this is why I think the Wand of Frog is OP. No one item or spell should be capable of dealing both frog and psychic damage.

Rod of Toad =/= Wand of Frog, though, they're completely separate items. Rod of Toad is definitely OP though, Hypnotoads are absurdly powerful even if you have to burn all its charges at oncALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

[pwykersotz]

Rod of Toad =/= Wand of Frog, though, they're completely separate items. Rod of Toad is definitely OP though, Hypnotoads are absurdly powerful even if you have to burn all its charges at oncALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081007151100/aliens/images/0/0b/Hypnotoad.gif

[Mrmox42]

I still believe Wand of Frog was nerfed in 5E. If you played a Bard in AD&D, and the Bard had a Wand of Frog, you ruled big time. Now, it's meh.

[Yoroichi]

I can already hear the whinging that will come because martial characters can't use the Wand of Frog.

Im sorry, i am a lvl 7 barbarian with path of the frog hermit, which allows for one use of toad/ 8 hour rest as a ritual and practically is identical with the ability of WoF and also consistent with my class and RP.

Why wouldnt i be able to use it?

[TheOldCrow]

I still believe Wand of Frog was nerfed in 5E. If you played a Bard in AD&D, and the Bard had a Wand of Frog, you ruled big time. Now, it's meh.

I agree. Sure, in 5e the Wand of Frog still deals a frog, but if you even look at it funny, it croaks.

[Naanomi]

Im sorry, i am a lvl 7 barbarian with path of the frog hermit, which allows for one use of toad/ 8 hour rest as a ritual and practically is identical with the ability of WoF and also consistent with my class and RP.

Why wouldnt i be able to use it?
Well of course RaI you should be able to use it but it falls in the 'ask your DM' territory as to whether your toad ability counts.

The best mundane for this stuff would be a rogue/thief; with their UMD ability they could combine the Tome of Toad, Wand of Frog, and even some of the other minor frog-boosting items without having to Multiclass at all.

[Leon]

Bufo's Hex Scroll

[Ghost Nappa]

The Utility of the Wand of Frog is directly proportional to how much poison you squeeze out of the little buggers.

When in use, stick to yellows, blacks, and reds for your frogs. The odds of them rolling "Venomous" onto the Poisonous Frog table is much higher than other colors, making your blatant attempts to kill the livers of other sentient beings almost infinitely higher.

Or you can risk it all and roll on the Lime Green table which has the 1/10000 chance of spawning the deadly dragon frog, whose venomous bite terrifies even the Tarrasque.

[The_Ditto]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u92/Legendary_Fury/Avatars/thd999b355.gif
(http://media.photobucket.com/user/Legendary_Fury/media/Avatars/thd999b355.gif.html)

Brain.
Hurts.
So.
Much.

[Gnomes2169]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u92/Legendary_Fury/Avatars/thd999b355.gif
(http://media.photobucket.com/user/Legendary_Fury/media/Avatars/thd999b355.gif.html)

Brain.
Hurts.
So.
Much.

And our job is done. :smallbiggrin:

[Kerrin]

enfrogenation

:smallsmile: Okay, I laughed really hard at this ... word. :smallsmile:

P.S. I hope you stay enfrogenated!

[Dalebert]

Rod of Toad =/= Wand of Frog

Oops! That was a brain-fart. You can understand how I'd be confused though as I haven't gotten my DMG. It ships tomorrow.

Anyhoo, do you happen to know if the Rod of Frog doubles as a mace or if the frog dampens the blows too much?

Also, do either of them make a squeaky noise or a croak, or can you use them stealthily? And please don't say "DM's call" because I'm just tired of hearing that for every question in 5e.

[Kerrin]

Interesting wearable amphibian magic items...

Frogger Flip-Flops allow the wearer to leap out of the way of / on to speeding chariots. Very handy if your character spends a lot of time chariot racing.

The necklace known as the Croaker Choker has a vague description that merely says, "As soon as the wearer puts on this necklace they croak." I'm unsure how to interpret this one. Do they simply make a croaking sound or do they die?

[Kerrin]

Anyhoo, do you happen to know if the Rod of Frog doubles as a mace or if the frog dampens the blows too much?

Is a Rod of Frog the same as a Wand of Frog?

[Joe the Rat]

Also, do either of them make a squeaky noise or a croak, or can you use them stealthily? And please don't say "DM's call" because I'm just tired of hearing that for every question in 5e.

I'm pretty sure the Wand of Frog croaks. There was an article about an article on a site where someone said they heard from an unnamed WotC employee in a bar that one of the artificer formulas combines it with a crossbow to make a Ribbit Gun.

Apparently it can be used to repair constructs, but that makes no sense at all...

[Sartharina]

Is a Rod of Frog the same as a Wand of Frog?

No. There isn't a Rod of Frog. I think he got it confused with the Rod of Toad.

[Inevitability]

Pfff. When true optimization comes on the table, nothing can stop the true power of the WoF.

A 17th-level wizard can create a single WoF a day with True Polymorph. This number increases with Dominated Gated in Archmages or endless Simulacra. Now, you can hire a few NPC's (or polymorph some rocks into slaves) to wield those and you got yourself a wand-wielding army of doom. And even better; it can be amplified with everything mentioned above.

[Fra Antonio]

Pfff. When true optimization comes on the table, nothing can stop the true power of the WoF.

A 17th-level wizard can create a single WoF a day with True Polymorph. This number increases with Dominated Gated in Archmages or endless Simulacra. Now, you can hire a few NPC's (or polymorph some rocks into slaves) to wield those and you got yourself a wand-wielding army of doom. And even better; it can be amplified with everything mentioned above.
Again with this True Polymorph and Wish Simulacra cheese. If your DM allows it, everyone in the world should have a WoF by the time you even start playing: one god/wizard whoever starts mass producing WoF's, and all the others counter it by doing the same - a textbook arms race. The game should probably start after the Frogocalypse.
Because if you can create a WoF, why wouldn't you? Nothing in the entire game can duplicate its effect. Yes, casters can summon frogs, burn them, freeze them - whatever; they can't deal frogs even on self!

[JAL_1138]

I still believe Wand of Frog was nerfed in 5E. If you played a Bard in AD&D, and the Bard had a Wand of Frog, you ruled big time. Now, it's meh.

I dunno. In 2e it scaled with level (hence why it was so good with any bard--the Rogue group had the fastest leveling in the game) and synergized great with the Calaveras Charlatan kit from Complete Bard's Handbook that gave you a decent boost to frog and toad, plus the ability to train amphibians, in exchange for a hit to all your thief skills except pickpocket and a few other restrictions. But the 2e WoF had charges that could be expended pretty quickly and allowed a save, plus certain races and classes had a 20% failure chance with it. The 5e version is less overtly powerful but much, much more reliable.

[Sudokori]

Little unclear on the dealing frog damage. Does this bypass damage resistance or do some monsters require Frog Resistance to avoid damage?

On a different note. Can you create different frog related magic items? Like decanter of endless toads, bag of frogging, frog flails, and the (undoubtably gonna be) feared necklace of the hypno toad.

[GorinichSerpant]

Little unclear on the dealing frog damage. Does this bypass damage resistance or do some monsters require Frog Resistance to avoid damage?

On a different note. Can you create different frog related magic items? Like decanter of endless toads, bag of frogging, frog flails, and the (undoubtably gonna be) feared necklace of the hypno toad.

What do you mean? Your talking like those items don't exist?

[eastmabl]

Little unclear on the dealing frog damage. Does this bypass damage resistance or do some monsters require Frog Resistance to avoid damage?

On a different note. Can you create different frog related magic items? Like decanter of endless toads, bag of frogging, frog flails, and the (undoubtably gonna be) feared necklace of the hypno toad.

Five level wizard with Wand of Frog could kite the tarrasque to death in less than 10 minutes.

Also, Bupu did it better in AD&D with wand of rat.

[Dalebert]

Little unclear on the dealing frog damage.

Now I see why you're confused. It doesn't deal frog damage. It deals one frog.

[Mrmox42]

I seem to remember a Random Frog Generation Table, right next to the Random Harlot Table in the AD&D DMG.

Does anybody have a copy? I want to build a character around this item.

[Asylum]

The Wand of Frog seems really OP to me. All the (maybe even non-stopp) frogging...

Though it has given me an idea for my next BBEG:

A huge army of bullywugs equipped with Wand of Frogs causing havoc to the ecosystem, led by a half-toad half-primordial Deepfrog invading the kingdom of flies sprites and pixies in need of food.

http://cache.osta.ee/iv2/auctions/1_1_9653286.jpg



PS: This thread finally forced me to make an account.

[unwise]

The Wand of Frog seems really OP to me. All the (maybe even non-stopp) frogging...

Though it has given me an idea for my next BBEG:

A huge army of bullywugs equipped with Wand of Frogs causing havoc to the ecosystem, led by a half-toad half-primordial Deepfrog invading the kingdom of flies sprites and pixies in need of food.

http://cache.osta.ee/iv2/auctions/1_1_9653286.jpg



PS: This thread finally forced me to make an account.

Why bother with that BBEG when the sneak peak excerpt of MM2 already has Tidalick statted out?

For the non-Australians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiddalik

P.S. Welcome to the asylum Asylum

[Inevitability]

Again with this True Polymorph and Wish Simulacra cheese. If your DM allows it, everyone in the world should have a WoF by the time you even start playing: one god/wizard whoever starts mass producing WoF's, and all the others counter it by doing the same - a textbook arms race. The game should probably start after the Frogocalypse.
Because if you can create a WoF, why wouldn't you? Nothing in the entire game can duplicate its effect. Yes, casters can summon frogs, burn them, freeze them - whatever; they can't deal frogs even on self!

I disagree. It would require a 9th-level spell, and the world may not have them! What if this is a low-magic world? What if people don't know about the WoF yet? After all, those who know of their existence would probably lock them away in uberguarded dungeons on other planes or somesuch.

[TheOldCrow]

The lack of Frog Resistance in 5e might be a problem, but the WoF still looks way nerfed to me. In 3e, Dealing Frog often got the ban hammer, since with Splats it was too awesome.

[Heartspan]

But wasn't there some cheese involving dual wielding wands of frog to deal two or three frogs per round?

[Mrmox42]

But wasn't there some cheese involving dual wielding wands of frog to deal two or three frogs per round?

This would require a Feat in 5E.

[Ghost Nappa]

I think that the Wand of Frog is best held by a Kuo-toa Monster PC.

Your natural evil frogginess amplies the magical power of the Wand to a degree not seen since Simulacrum abuse.

[TheOldCrow]

I think that the Wand of Frog is best held by a Kuo-toa Monster PC.

Your natural evil frogginess amplies the magical power of the Wand to a degree not seen since Simulacrum abuse.

RAW Frog Cheese.

[Inevitability]

Wait wait wait. How would one respond to a druid wildshaping into a giant octopus, then wielding 8 WoF's at once? I really hope WOTC was wise enough to include a rule invalidating this.


Or otherwise... :smallamused:

[Mrmox42]

Wait wait wait. How would one respond to a druid wildshaping into a giant octopus, then wielding 8 WoF's at once? I really hope WOTC was wise enough to include a rule invalidating this.

This is the character that I want to build! Imagine the power!

[Kerrin]

Wait wait wait. How would one respond to a druid wildshaping into a giant octopus, then wielding 8 WoF's at once? I really hope WOTC was wise enough to include a rule invalidating this.

Wait wait wait. I thought the ancient amphibian/octopod war of 789 ended with all amphibian artifacts carrying a curse against any octopod ever being able to use them.

I think it was in that book ... Ancient Slimy Wars by Miry Viscous.

[Heartspan]

Wait wait wait. I thought the ancient amphibian/octopod war of 789 ended with all amphibian artifacts carrying a curse against any octopod ever being able to use them.

I think it was in that book ... Ancient Slimy Wars by Miry Viscous. you're getting your history mixed up, it was the DRAGON/amphibian planes war that your thinking about. The octopods didn't even come into play in that war.

[MadGrady]

I know this also might be highly situational, but if a wild sorcerer activates the wand of frog, it is possible to obtain a wild fairy princess kiss, which then grants the condition: Princely to the character. This condition is easily identifed by the character's sleeves becoming poofier, their hair wavier, and their looks becoming more dashing. Of course the downside is that characters with the Princely condition within 30ft of a Fey Fairy Princess are forced to roll percentage dice against the following table:

0-25% - Evil Witch
26-50% - Magic coma
51-75% - Bearded Roommates
76%-100% - Evil sorcerer/ess polymorphed into dragon

[JAL_1138]

I know this also might be highly situational, but if a wild sorcerer activates the wand of frog, it is possible to obtain a wild fairy princess kiss, which then grants the condition: Princely to the character. This condition is easily identifed by the character's sleeves becoming poofier, their hair wavier, and their looks becoming more dashing. Of course the downside is that characters with the Princely condition within 30ft of a Fey Fairy Princess are forced to roll percentage dice against the following table:

0-25% - Evil Witch
26-50% - Magic coma
51-75% - Bearded Roommates
76%-100% - Evil sorcerer/ess polymorphed into dragon

They left out Kidnapped by Faerie Queene, Cursed with Forgetfulness, and Polymorphed into Beast from the Prince's Faerie Interaction table? Oy! Sure, it eliminates several drawbacks for WoF (further evidence it's not nerfed from the 2e version), but come on, those were classic parts of the Princely condition!

[lvl 1 human]

I for one am apalled at how over powered this item is. it's as if wotc didn't even playtest it ! I have been working on a limited wand of frog. It isn't as reliable but it has kick.

[unwise]

Deals one frog on touch

Have we all been reading this wrong this whole time? It says it deals one frog, not deals one frog damage. Could it be used to replenish a PCs frog levels?

If an item "deals 15 HP on touch" it is unclear if that is adding to the HP pool or subtracting from it. The same applies here. Could this be used on willing targets to reach huge levels of enfrogenation? RAI is it intended as a buffing item or a damage item? Offensive or buffing, the DMG just does not give rules on how to DM a game with such huge enfrogenation levels, it would be very hard to balance.

[Kerrin]

Have we all been reading this wrong this whole time? It says it deals one frog, not deals one frog damage. Could it be used to replenish a PCs frog levels?

If an item "deals 15 HP on touch" it is unclear if that is adding to the HP pool or subtracting from it. The same applies here. Could this be used on willing targets to reach huge levels of enfrogenation? RAI is it intended as a buffing item or a damage item? Offensive or buffing, the DMG just does not give rules on how to DM a game with such huge enfrogenation levels, it would be very hard to balance.

Hmm. Is a high ENFrogenation for a character a good thing or a bad thing?

Characters usually have traits where a larger number is a good thing, e.g. stats, saving throws, etc.

So is ENF similar?

[JAL_1138]

Have we all been reading this wrong this whole time? It says it deals one frog, not deals one frog damage. Could it be used to replenish a PCs frog levels?

If an item "deals 15 HP on touch" it is unclear if that is adding to the HP pool or subtracting from it. The same applies here. Could this be used on willing targets to reach huge levels of enfrogenation? RAI is it intended as a buffing item or a damage item? Offensive or buffing, the DMG just does not give rules on how to DM a game with such huge enfrogenation levels, it would be very hard to balance.

It deals one frog, not grants, gives, regains, or restores one frog, though...

[MadGrady]

Have we all been reading this wrong this whole time? It says it deals one frog, not deals one frog damage. Could it be used to replenish a PCs frog levels?

If an item "deals 15 HP on touch" it is unclear if that is adding to the HP pool or subtracting from it. The same applies here. Could this be used on willing targets to reach huge levels of enfrogenation? RAI is it intended as a buffing item or a damage item? Offensive or buffing, the DMG just does not give rules on how to DM a game with such huge enfrogenation levels, it would be very hard to balance.

As a DM, I feel this would be broken. My players should ONLY ever have ONE frog per long rest. Allowing them to have a magic items that grant additional frogs is too OP, IMHO. I wouldn't even allow this in my game.

[Inevitability]

EVEN WORSE SITUATION:

A Druid 17 / Sorcerer 3 can summon 8 octopi for 2 hours with a 9th-level Extended Conjure Animals. During that time, a few wizard allies (or gated in Archmages) can Planar Bind (9th-level slot) the octopi. Now you have several octopi magically compelled to serve you for a year and a day. The druid the awakens the octopi and teaches them to use WoF's.

Eventually, you will have an army of intelligent, loyal octopi all wielding 8 WoF's.

Most. Powerful. Build. Ever.

[bloodshed343]

EVEN WORSE SITUATION:

A Druid 17 / Sorcerer 3 can summon 8 octopi for 2 hours with a 9th-level Extended Conjure Animals. During that time, a few wizard allies (or gated in Archmages) can Planar Bind (9th-level slot) the octopi. Now you have several octopi magically compelled to serve you for a year and a day. The druid the awakens the octopi and teaches them to use WoF's.

Eventually, you will have an army of intelligent, loyal octopi all wielding 8 WoF's.

Most. Powerful. Build. Ever.

An elf rogue who picks up Haste can only kite this build for 5 rounds by dashing 3 times per turn. The biggest weakness of the build is the slow land speed of the octopi, but I can't think of a build to exploit that since by RaW you can touch the ground to deal one frog to the earth. Nothing can outrun that for more than 5 rounds without a serious fly speed.

[MadGrady]

EVEN WORSE SITUATION:

A Druid 17 / Sorcerer 3 can summon 8 octopi for 2 hours with a 9th-level Extended Conjure Animals. During that time, a few wizard allies (or gated in Archmages) can Planar Bind (9th-level slot) the octopi. Now you have several octopi magically compelled to serve you for a year and a day. The druid the awakens the octopi and teaches them to use WoF's.

Eventually, you will have an army of intelligent, loyal octopi all wielding 8 WoF's.

Most. Powerful. Build. Ever.

This is also dependent, of course, on the Octopi being able to utter the command words necessary to activate the Wand of Frog. I'm pretty sure that an Octopi's beak is not sufficiently dextrous enough to successfully speak the word "Supercalifrogiribbitexplodeallintheocean"

It just doesn't make sense, and, again, banned from my table

[Dalebert]

It just doesn't make sense, and, again, banned from my table

The irony here is that MadGrady's ban-hammer deals two frogs.
:smallamused:

[MadGrady]

The irony here is that MadGrady's ban-hammer deals two frogs.
:smallamused:

Wow, you're absolutely right. I didn't even catch that, especially since that table is listed in completely different section in the DMG, and, thus, easily missed due to poor layout.

I'm gonna have to go back and rethink this. Two frogs is clearly too much.

[JoeJ]

EVEN WORSE SITUATION:

A Druid 17 / Sorcerer 3 can summon 8 octopi for 2 hours with a 9th-level Extended Conjure Animals. During that time, a few wizard allies (or gated in Archmages) can Planar Bind (9th-level slot) the octopi. Now you have several octopi magically compelled to serve you for a year and a day. The druid the awakens the octopi and teaches them to use WoF's.

Eventually, you will have an army of intelligent, loyal octopi all wielding 8 WoF's.

Most. Powerful. Build. Ever.

And I, for one, welcome our new octopus overlords.

Seriously, though, just how many WoF do you expect the party to get? I can't see any DM handing out more than 1.

[MadGrady]

And I, for one, welcome our new octopus overlords.

Seriously, though, just how many WoF do you expect the party to get? I can't see any DM handing out more than 1.

But using simulacrum, you could have an infinite army crafting these round the clock.

[JoeJ]

But using simulacrum, you could have an infinite army crafting these round the clock.

How rare is the formula for WoF?

[Inevitability]

Pff... Crafting? True Polymorph or GTFO. :smalltongue:

[MrStupendous]

I don't know what this frog whining is all about - all this mundane frog synergy options will no doubt come with the Complete Frogdealer splatbook. I'm especially hyped for Frog Knight. The freaking FROG KNIGHT!!!
http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/chronotriggerelite/pics/glenndrawsmasamune.jpg

I registered after lurking on this forum for a long time. I'm soooo excited about this splatbook and the possibility of the inclusion of frog gods from different pantheons

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BWn6E8ypeyo/TdbMN-W1CyI/AAAAAAAAA78/xjTm3oFwox8/s400/throg_thor_frog.jpg

[Inevitability]

Another frog deity:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/faience/images/artefact%20WHAT%20frog%20shape%2001.jpg

[Yoroichi]

Another frog deity:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/faience/images/artefact%20WHAT%20frog%20shape%2001.jpg

Cleric of Ribbit.

Amphibian Domain

1st cleric ability:Your cantrips deal frog damage instead of the damage specified.

Too imba?

[Freelance GM]

Dare I ask how this thread hasn't croaked yet?

[bloodshed343]

Cleric of Ribbit.

Amphibian Domain

1st cleric ability:Your cantrips deal frog damage instead of the damage specified.

Too imba?

Frog isn't a damage type. If your cantrips deal one frog instead of damage, it's pretty OP. If your cantrips deal one frog per damage dealt, it's probably the most broken thing ever. Worse than pun-pun.

[JAL_1138]

Dare I ask how this thread hasn't croaked yet?

It doesn't have high enough enfrogenation; it can only ribbit, not croak.

[MrStupendous]

these are the kind of problems that we used to dissect during biology class


you would have thought we newt better

[SharkForce]

Frog isn't a damage type. If your cantrips deal one frog instead of damage, it's pretty OP. If your cantrips deal one frog per damage dealt, it's probably the most broken thing ever. Worse than pun-pun.

nah, as soon as something exists with the ability to deal one frog, pun-pun can give himself that ability. it is very difficult to give something an ability that is more broken than pun-pun.

besides, pun-pun can craft all the wands of frog he wants anyways, and can probably wield dozens of them at a time, plus he has infinite reach. pun-pun can deal many frogs to anyone or anything in the universe already. perhaps he has even already done so.

[JoeJ]

Pff... Crafting? True Polymorph or GTFO. :smalltongue:

But I can only case True Polymorph once a day. I could conceivably have any number of simulacra crafting for me. I could be cranking out dozens, or even hundreds of Wands of Frog a day, and have a simulacra sales force with offices in every city. You can't tell me that won't change the world - the magic mart is back, and the top sale item is Wand of Frog.

[JAL_1138]

But I can only case True Polymorph once a day. I could conceivably have any number of simulacra crafting for me. I could be cranking out dozens, or even hundreds of Wands of Frog a day, and have a simulacra sales force with offices in every city. You can't tell me that won't change the world - the magic mart is back, and the top sale item is Wand of Frog.

Beware of the phenomenon noted in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "Shoe Event Horizon"--or in this case, the WoF Event Horizon--that made Frogstar World B what it is now, a barren wasteland of post-economic-collapse devastation. When it's no longer economically viable to build anything but Wand of Frog shops...

[Inevitability]

I am very disappointed that this awesome item does not have a setting build around it yet. JAL already made a good suggestion, but what else can we think of?

[JoeJ]

Beware of the phenomenon noted in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "Shoe Event Horizon"--or in this case, the WoF Event Horizon--that made Frogstar World B what it is now, a barren wasteland of post-economic-collapse devastation. When it's no longer economically viable to build anything but Wand of Frog shops...

I'll be the multiverse's number one supplier of Wands of Frog. Forget creating demiplanes, I'll be able to buy my own full-sized plane with my WoF profits.

[Kerrin]

Getting back to the concern about a PC maybe achieving too high an enfrogenation ... What would the enfrogenation value be of a druid who wildshapes in to a Giant Frog?

Completely broken or what?

[Inevitability]

Getting back to the concern about a PC maybe achieving too high an enfrogenation ... What would the enfrogenation value be of a druid who wildshapes in to a Giant Frog?

Completely broken or what?

Not really. Most of a frog's destructive potential is sealed within its body. I believe there is some fluff about an archmage doing this eons ago? And besides, a druid killed in animal form just returns as human. There is no frog body to be left behind, so no dangerous frog-dealing radiation will slowly poison the environment. I'd say it is fine.

Conjure Animals, on the other hand...

[JAL_1138]

Not really. Most of a frog's destructive potential is sealed within its body. I believe there is some fluff about an archmage doing this eons ago? And besides, a druid killed in animal form just returns as human. There is no frog body to be left behind, so no dangerous frog-dealing radiation will slowly poison the environment. I'd say it is fine.

Conjure Animals, on the other hand...

Tying into setting ideas, the first published adventure (mentioned a few pages back in the thread) for any TTRPG ever involved a cult (led by a disguised space-alien) breeding humanoid frogs and giant man-eating frogs to replace humanity. You could easily tweak Temple of the Frog ("Blackmoor" OD&D supplement version) to be based around WoF shenanigans, representing a dire threat in Greyhawk or the Known World / Mystara.

Since the Temple itself is likely to be horrifyingly lethal even to Lvl 20 5e characters due to sheer number of enemies, it could be the culmination of a campaign kicked off by the discovery of a heavily-enfrogenated commoner and a WoF on a cultist's nearby corpse...

[Fralex]

Five level wizard with Wand of Frog could kite the tarrasque to death in less than 10 minutes.

Oh my freaking heck, you people are still going on about this one? You're just theorycrafting and assuming this all takes place in some empty void. No DM would allow that, and the fight would be boring as beans. The tarrasque just needs to throw something at the wizard and it doesn't matter how many frogs they've dealt; they are DEAD. And the Wand of Frog doesn't even deal ribbit on a miss now; I don't know why they nerfed it so bad from the playtest.

[Eslin]

Wand of frog is another attempt to patch up the gap between martials and casters through artificial means rather than game balance, and doesn't fit in at all with the rest of 5e's design - like a dozen other features, it feels disconnected from similar items like different people wrote them all without any design consistency.

They could have easily just given one of the crappier classes like rangers the ability to one frog per short rest or against favoured enemies, but instead they're trying to use the inconsistent magic item level to fix their own screwups.



True polymorph.

[Mrmox42]

We just had a game the other night, and my lvl 19 Druid tried out the ”turn into an octopus and go to town with 8 Wand of Frogs” – thing.

The game went crazy.

Our DM had to pull the stops after half an hour.

I just dealt so mant frogs.

[Kerrin]

True polymorph.

Permanent enfrogenation insanity!

[Yoroichi]

Permanent enfrogenation insanity!

This thread is getting silly.

Can't we just agree that the wand of frog should be banned from any sane DM's table, and that frog damage can be healed by a lesser restoration spell?

[Joe the Rat]

Frog damage, can be healed normally, but Frog does require restoration. Remember, the Wand deals Frog, not frog damage. This is like the difference between poison (damage) and Poissoned (status). But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[SharkForce]

This is like the difference between poison (damage) and Poissoned (status). But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

....


i can't tell if this is just happenstance, or a deliberate pun =S

(for those of you who don't have the slightest idea what i'm talking about, poisson is french for fish :P

[Joe the Rat]

....


i can't tell if this is just happenstance, or a deliberate pun =S

(for those of you who don't have the slightest idea what i'm talking about, poisson is french for fish :PYes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MathematiciansAnswer)
It started as a typo, but I couldn't resist.

[Feldarove]

Sorry, AFB, but I remember seeing the picture of the Wand of Frog in my DMG, but I was pretty sure it didn't say it dealt one frog....but the credibility of these forums in unshakable, so I will take everyone's word for it.

That being said, was debating this at work with a customer during a conference call (pharmaceutical sales meetings can get sidetracked fairly easy), if my Wizard is concentrating on a spell, and is hit in the back the party's rogue with WoF (because my freaking rogue would definitely do this if my DM is foolish enough to give the party a WoF...and there is no way the rogue doesn't gank the WoF), do I have to make check to continue concentrating? If so, what is it?

[Yoroichi]

Sorry, AFB, but I remember seeing the picture of the Wand of Frog in my DMG, but I was pretty sure it didn't say it dealt one frog....but the credibility of these forums in unshakable, so I will take everyone's word for it.

That being said, was debating this at work with a customer during a conference call (pharmaceutical sales meetings can get sidetracked fairly easy), if my Wizard is concentrating on a spell, and is hit in the back the party's rogue with WoF (because my freaking rogue would definitely do this if my DM is foolish enough to give the party a WoF...and there is no way the rogue doesn't gank the WoF), do I have to make check to continue concentrating? If so, what is it?

Now that it has been established that after being dealt frog damage you are poissoned, which feels similar to poisoned, should you get disadvantage for concentration checks, if you indeed need to roll for concentration.

[Mrmox42]

A proper effect from the WoF, instead of being dealt one frog, would be to be grenouilled.

[Kerrin]

Hmm, interesting. I'm wondering, is being dealt one Frog a negative thing or a positive thing for a PC?

"dealt one Frog" sounds like being dealt damage so that would be a negative thing.

"dealt one Frog" could a beneficial effect on a character's enfrogenation level.

"enfrogenation" could be a status that is either negative or positive for the character.

It's unclear from the very brief description of the Wand of Frog item what it means since there doesn't seem to be mention of it anywhere else. Maybe it will be clarified in the upcoming spat book "Slimy Things!"

Wonder what the Sage would think of this?

EDIT: Oh, and these forums need a frog-like smiley!

[Inevitability]

Hmm, interesting. I'm wondering, is being dealt one Frog a negative thing or a positive thing for a PC?

"dealt one Frog" sounds like being dealt damage so that would be a negative thing.

"dealt one Frog" could a beneficial effect on a character's enfrogenation level.

"enfrogenation" could be a status that is either negative or positive for the character.

It's unclear from the very brief description of the Wand of Frog item what it means since there doesn't seem to be mention of it anywhere else. Maybe it will be clarified in the upcoming spat book "Slimy Things!"

Wonder what the Sage would think of this?

EDIT: Oh, and these forums need a frog-like smiley!

Sorry to disappoint you, but 'Slimy Things!' got cancelled... :smallfrown:

WOTC has hinted towards something called 'Amphibian Kingdoms' though. Will it have information on the WoF? Is it unrelated? Will it provide us with the next Pun-Pun? So many questions, so few answers!

[Kerrin]

Sorry to disappoint you, but 'Slimy Things!' got cancelled... :smallfrown:

WOTC has hinted towards something called 'Amphibian Kingdoms' though. Will it have information on the WoF? Is it unrelated? Will it provide us with the next Pun-Pun? So many questions, so few answers!

Hmm, the Slimy Things! was rumored to be more of a monster manual focused type of thing.

So I wonder if WotC took Slimy Things! and the rumored Tome of Frog and integrated them with Amphibian Kingdoms since 5e seems to take the tact of rolling out new splat via campaign settings / adventure modules instead of a multitude of individual splat books?

P.S. The forums still need a Frog smiley.

[Mrmox42]

"dealt one Frog" sounds like being dealt damage so that would be a negative thing.

"dealt one Frog" could a beneficial effect on a character's enfrogenation level.

"enfrogenation" could be a status that is either negative or positive for the character.

As you imply so excellently, the sheer versatility in the ability to deal a frog is astounding.

This item needs extreme DM control and handling, otherwise the whole campaign can suffer.