Elf-Orc relations in Eberron?

[CoffeeIncluded]

In most DnD settings elves and orcs hate each other; they're usually mortal enemies. But Eberron is really different from the other campaign settings, and the races are no different. Because of this change, do elves and orcs hate each other in Eberron the way they do in other settings? And if not, how do they view each other and what is the status of their relationship?

Also, would half-Orc and half-elf siblings be seen as particularly unusual?

[Sartharina]

I don't think they care about each other in Eberron. Orcs are the reclusive guardians of nature, while Elves rampage across Khorvaire in conquering hordes.

Half-elf/Half Orc siblings would be rare, since Half-elves are usually a result of two half-elves, not elf+human.

[atemu1234]

If you use the human-elf parentage, it'd be rare but not impossible. Not sure what half elf + orc would look like (unrelated). Though one would wonder what strange events led to their conception, seeing as (if they are heteropaternal twins) the half-orc would be middle-aged by the other's adulthood. Even with separate conception points, humans are notoriously short-windowed in terms of fertility. By the time they're middle-aged, odds are they're done.

[Afgncaap5]

Honestly? There was a lot of history before humans showed up where the war-like Aerenal (though not as war-like as Valenar, admittedly) elves might have clashed with the druidic orcs of Khorvaire. If a DM wanted to maintain that sort of elf/orc hatred, there's a lot of historical room to write in that kind of history. To make it a more modern thing, the Valenar elves could easily have tried to invade the Shadow Marches. (Marshes?)

If a DM doesn't want to maintain that, though, it'd be easy to leave it out.

[Kol Korran]

I've read a bit about Eberron History (my favorite), and here are some observations:

In ancient past Khorvaire was occupied mostly by the Dhakanii hobgoblin Empire (Of which there is SOOOO little information that it is very sad, since it mostly qualify as Khorvaire's main "Ancient civilization"). The Empire was centrally located in the region of Breland- now days Darguun, but spread it's influence through most of Khorvaire. They spread west and north west, and clashed with the orcs. Being more orderly, and more advanced, they drove the primitive race fare to the west, till they lived mostly in the Eldeen reaches, some of now days Drooam, and mostly in the Shadow Marches. (There are also a disconnected group in the Mror holds mountains which clashed with the dwarves, but those are culturally entirely different orcs). They also clashed with Aerenai elves, who sought to inhabit Khorvaire for themselves, mostly near the region of now days Valenar (But with Aerenai culture). This struggle was mroe fierce, but at the end the Aerenai decided to retreat to their island. So both races have a long history not with each other, but with the hobgoblins. The hobgoblins are a serious historically influential force in the Khorvaire, and have affected many races.
Not al lelves retreated to Aerenai. Some remained on Khorvaire, though few in number, they were mostly in secluded areas. As the humans came, they have joined with them and the nations and cultures they have built. These are the Khorvaire Elves. (Vs. Aerenal elves and Valenar elves, the three elven cultures). There have been instances of mingling of blood to produce half elves, but this was rare. All this changed with the formation of the dragonamrked houses. The 2 half elven dragon marked houses of storm (Lyrandar) and detection (Medani) manifested their marks ONLY for half elves. Along with the effects of the War of The Mark this caused for intense breeding, which finally led to a large population of half elves that bred truly amongst themselves. This day, nearly all half elves are born to half elves, and have some connection to one of the two dragonmarked houses. Rare instances of human-elf coupling do occur, but they are the exception, not the rule, and to a certain extent seem a bit of a distaste by half elves themselves... The half elves consider themselves a true race, not a mingling, and a truer race to Khorvaire than humans and elves are (Who both came from different continents. You can read more about it here. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040906a)
The orcs: It is worthy of note to remark that the invasion from Xoriat, the one that ended the Dhakanii hobgoblin Empire, started at the last refuges of the orc population- in the Shadow marches, now days Droaam and the Eldeen Reaches. The orcs were also the ones who put a stop to it, through the druidic secrets given to them by an ancient black dragon, and forming the sect of the Gate Keepers, cutting of the connection to the realm of madness, and somehow driving the remaining aberrations into Khyber. To these days both the marches and the reaches have presence both of gate keepers and Khyber cults, both more prominent in the marches, the orc's homeland. The orc population however never fully recovered, and those who were in the savage region which is now days Droaan were enslaved by ogre and other monstrosities as slaves. The Galifar Empire (humans) wished to inhabit all of Khrvaire, and with ships they reached the shadow marches too, and mingled there, with the orcs welcoming their advanced technology and thinking, and the humans profiting from the many Eberron dragonshards there. Unlike in other settings, this mingling of culture and races produced half orcs, which are seen as the BETTER of two races, and sort of paragons of ths shadowmarches culture. When the dragonmarked house of finding (Tharashk) was formed (initially capitalizing on finding more Eberron shards in the marches), it was the half orcs who led it. They have a preferred status in the marches, by both humans and orcs alike. A bit like two migrating cultures in a new country intermingling and seeing the children as signs of their unity, and becoming better.
Elves and orcs? Half elves and half orcs? You could easily add something, as mentioned by the former poster. Eberron's timeline has enough "empty periods" to put something in, but in my idea there is no need to. Part of the beauty of Eberron is looking at known cultures and races differently. If you want racial struggle, there are always the hobgoblins, and the creations of the Daelkyrs, and the tensions between CULTURES, not RACES. (Aerenai elves, Valenar elves and Khorvaire nations all have a lovely exploitable tension between them!) The Droaam orcs also have an interesting role as slaves, with Grey wall proving a very interesting- multicultural (If savage) intermingling, in which half orcs walks a very thin, diplomatic and tenuous line- Between ambassadors of the "civilized" nations/ dragonmakred houses, and "Hey, what's a slave doing walking about?"


I hope this helped, good luck!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thank you so much, and this was a huge help! The reason I was asking is that I'm going to hopefully be playing an Eberron game in a month or so, and I wanted to use two characters that I had played a little bit in a real-life game that died because of college obligations. I was pretty upset by that because it was shaping up to be a pretty great game. Anyway, the two characters I had thought up were Blake Lowell, a half-orc, and his half-brother, a half-elf named Soren Lowell. I wanted to see if there would be any serious issues with moving them to Eberron as-is.

[Kol Korran]

I think that won't be a problem. The family tree would be... interesting, but the two won't have a problem working together. Half elves are fairly common in the Five Nations (The main "civilized world" countries) while half orcs are usually seen as tied to house Tharashk, or as... "primitive looking" (Though attire, manners and speech can quickly dissuade this. Race is far less important then is nationality in Eberron) if you'd like any sort of help their back story, I'd be willing to offer any setting info you might need.

For example, if the game starts at the "regular" time of the campaign, then Khorvaire is just 2 years after the conclusion of a 100 years war that tore the continent, gave rise to new nations, and even had one country mysteriously destroyed in a great magical event (Formerly Cyre, now The Mournland). It is advised to relate to that was in some way, even though you don't have to take an active part in it. It affected most of the continent's population in some way.

Good luck with your game! I've read some of your posts before, I'd bet that the characters will be quite interesting! :smallsmile:

[Red Fel]

Half-elf/Half Orc siblings would be rare, since Half-elves are usually a result of two half-elves, not elf+human.

This is, I think, a very important point. Eberron is one of the few settings where Half-Elves are not only a distinct race, but a respected one. They're not just "those guys who aren't quite Human but aren't quite Elf," they're the monarchs of the airship monopoly. They're a big deal.

Outside of Eberron, a Human mother might have one kid by an Elf and one by an Orc, and thus have a Half-Elf and a Half-Orc, fine. In Eberron, it doesn't quite work the same - you'd probably have to say she had a kid by a Half-Elf, and thus had a (half) Half-Elf kid. Aside from that detail, it could work, depending on the region. For example, the mother could be one of the Human inhabitants of the Shadow Marches, the Orc father could be one of the locals, and the Half-Elf father could have been a traveler or crewman on an airship passing through.

Now, if you wanted to make it really unusual, you could give them both True Dragonmarks. Half-Orcs, as I recall, can only be members of House Tharashk (Mark of Finding), but Half-Elves can be members of House Lyrandar (Mark of Storms, my personal favorite) and House Medani (Mark of Detection). They'd basically both be bastard children, but the Houses would be forced to acknowledge their legitimacy due to the presence of the Mark. Which could make for some seriously fun RP.

[DeltaEmil]

I would just have it that a half-elf and a half-orc mating together get kids that can be either a half-elf, a half-orc, or a human.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That's a really good idea, Red Fel! Especially for Blake; I built him as a ranger so mark of finding would work well with him. Thank you all so much; I'll bring this up with the DM when I have a chance.

[Dusk Eclipse]

:Puts DM hood on:
You think I didn't know about this little thread Coffee! You are in my domain and I see everything!!!!!! :takes of DM hood:
:smalltongue:

I really like Red Fel ideas, both of them, so feel free to choose one and we can talk how to weave into the game.