PDA

View Full Version : PMAMT - a blast from the past



elliott20
2007-03-27, 08:54 AM
some years ago, when I was but a wee forum n00b, I used to go to a place called 3rdedition.org. (In fact, I'm sure some of you used to go to that very same place. It was pretty popular when 3E first came out)

One of the posters there called Power Munchkin came up with the first cheese build that became somewhat of a legacy staple there. For current day standards, it's laughably simplistic and hardly cheese at all. But for what it is, it was a simple enough concept that proved to be extremely deadly to most parties.

All it was, was just a troll with an AMF field amulet buried underneath it's flesh. (Or simply just worn at all times) the troll itself would wear masterwork adamantium armor and wield an adamantium two handed sword (adjusted for size, of course) and then load up on a couple barbarian levels. Thus, the Power Munchkin's Anti-Magic Troll (PMAMT) was born.

It was such a simple and stupid concept. but it worked out very well, spawning a short fad of people all trying their best to come up with other builds to take it down. It was in short, 3rdedition.org's own tarrasque. (one of the builds that also became a staple there as a result of the PMAMT was a black pudding paladin, but let's not get into that.)

I'm not sure why I'm even posting this. I guess I'm just getting nostalgic.

elliott20
2007-03-27, 08:57 AM
The PMAMT has also spawned a number of fan arts by some of the artists there. (And then by some of the not-really-artists, such as myself)

here's mine

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~ehw211/PMAMT.jpg

another guy named flyindebris did a better version of it. His version just managed to make him look so grimey and dirty. It was cool. Of course, the guy was an aspiring artist...

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~ehw211/pmamt_2small_copy.jpg

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 09:02 AM
Well now a days it is very easy to "one up this build" due to using extraordinary spell aim, or the rings in Complete Mage that make a person immune to another person's spells (the caster wears both rings).

Just cast AMF on you and start polymorphing/wildshape. To get the regeneration aspect you will need enhanced wildshape and thus a arcane hierophant build, a master transmogrifist, or just good old shapechange.

elliott20
2007-03-27, 10:15 AM
oh it's exceedingly easy now a days. I mean, hell, even *I* can come up with 3 or 4 builds off of the top of my head to trump this one, and I'm not even that good at this sort of thing. you've been around enough, you'll know at least a handful of things that can beat this thing.

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 10:23 AM
Oh its easy to create things that can beat it, its harder to create something that can do everything it can do +more (but still very easy now a days).

Well thanks for the trip down memory lane. It is surprising how much codex creep has occurred :)

arnoldrew
2007-03-27, 02:32 PM
Can someone more familiar with the rules explain why this is such a potent combo?

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 02:50 PM
Can someone more familiar with the rules explain why this is such a potent combo?
Almost all magic goes bye bye in an antimagic field (including magic items), all supernatural or spell like abilities stop, only ex abilities work and class abilities that are ex based.

A troll has 2 claws and a bite attack which can rend. Furthermore and probably most importantly he has regeneration 5, thus all damage is not fire or acid base is non lethal damage and he heals non lethal damage 5 points per round.

When nonlethal damage equals your current hit points you are staggered, when nonlethal damage exceeds your current hit points you are unconscious.

Thing is you are still not dead, and you still will heal 5 points of nonlethal damage per round (thus when your nonlethal damage returns to less than your hitpoints you get back up and start beating the pcs again). You can coup de grace such a monster but unless the coup de grace is fire or acid the instant death does not apply and you are just doing more nonlethal damage.

If you can't do fire or acid you are left with two options. Does as much nonlethal damage and run. Or separate the body parts and dig holes for each one, it will still try to regen but since the body parts are separated a lot of DMs will say the monster can't regenerate and reattach its body parts.

In other words the troll does not stay dead even after you beat it, its like a homunculus from full metal alchemist.

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 03:20 PM
Oh fear a 12 head pyro hydra with the wendigo template. Fly speed of 120 feet perfect, and regeneration 5 (which is pierced by fire, but since pyro hydra have the fire subtype you take no damage from fire) wendigo gives them the cold subtype. You can't kill it with magic, only with spells such as disintegrate.

Have a BBEG cast antimagic field on it (Master Specialist 10 Abjurration) and leave it as a distraction/guard dog while he goes does something else/escpae. Now that would be a harrasment for a party, and if they stay near it they will probably get tk. That is why you make it into a challenge, we must get this monster the bbeg left to guard this entrance while he performs his magic ritual. Can't really escape for if we do the BBEG will finish the ritual, almost impossible to kill it. Thus you make the challenge into something where your players will have to think outside the box before they can move forward.

elliott20
2007-03-27, 03:29 PM
the same applies to the PMAMT. After all, the PMAMT is actually not a very high level encounter, going with the RAW. Trolls are what, a CR 7? Give him a magical item and it bumps it up a little. Give him a couple levels of barbarian and he still not epic yet.

It's actually quite an interesting challenge.

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 03:40 PM
the same applies to the PMAMT. After all, the PMAMT is actually not a very high level encounter, going with the RAW. Trolls are what, a CR 7? Give him a magical item and it bumps it up a little. Give him a couple levels of barbarian and he still not epic yet.

It's actually quite an interesting challenge.

Until you throw a force cage into the mess (which both the hydra and the troll suffer from). Hydra is 20 feet long, force cage with bars is 20 feet long. Now you will still have to get by the hydra with its 24 heads which all breathe flame (and you are still vulnerable from) if he is near entrance he was guarding you may be in major trouble. (Also the hydra has to be near the ground instead of flying when you cast forcecage.)

With the troll part you can always just beat him by archery and once he goes down you then beat him into a living pulp. With the hydra that is near impossible due to his regen+fast healing+120 foot fly speed perfect.

Quietus
2007-03-27, 03:45 PM
Isn't Force Cage stopped by the antimagic field?

elliott20
2007-03-27, 03:45 PM
the wording is fuzzy on that. depends on your interpretation.

Ramza00
2007-03-27, 03:52 PM
Isn't Force Cage stopped by the antimagic field?
Wall of Force isn't stop by forecage.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfForce.htm), prismatic sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSphere.htm), and prismatic wall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticWall.htm), remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.


This version of the spell produces a 20-foot cube made of bands of force (similar to a wall of force (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfForce.htm) spell) for bars.

Thus its up to your DM