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Odessa333
2014-12-07, 09:25 PM
Topic.

So my rogue is good at stealth. Like, really good. I can't fight for anything (the ranger's animal companion makes me look like a joke) so I try to use my stealth and other skills to their maximum. Though apparently, I've over did it, as the DM is now shutting down most of my stealth use with the level 1 spell of 'alarm." Being the skill monkey, I have enough magical know-how to identify the spell as Alarm, but I can't DO anything about it. The safe i'm trying to rob? Alarm spell. The entire perimeter around the next mission? Alarm spell. The kitchen drawer? Another alarm spell! It's suddenly everywhere, and it's shutting me down, hard. Is there anything that can help remedy this, as I'm just not sure what to do anymore. The only thing I can think of is dispel magic, and without getting into too much detail I can't get my hands on that.

Thanks for your time.

deuxhero
2014-12-07, 09:29 PM
Get CE Detect Magic/Arcane Sight and an adamantite weapon. Go AROUND alarms

balegar
2014-12-07, 09:35 PM
Ethereal if that's on the table, until your dm uses improved alarm.

Emperor Tippy
2014-12-07, 09:39 PM
What level are you and what kind of resources do you have to invest?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2014-12-07, 09:44 PM
Magic device traps (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#sampleTraps) use Alarm to trigger them, all of which have a Search and Disable Device DC. The traps all look like they have a DC of 26+, and it does not seem to scale consistently with the caster levels of the traps.

If your DM won't go for allowing you to make Search and Disable Device checks to get past Alarm spells, then my advice would be to get scrolls of Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSight.htm) and Permanency.

Odessa333
2014-12-07, 09:57 PM
We're level 6, and it is a low magic game, hence why I can't get such advanced things like dispel magic. I can find/see the alarm spells (my perception, knowledge arcane, and spell craft are all high enough that I can identify it) but I'm not allowed to disarm them. I can disarm magical traps, but the alarm spell isn't a physical trap, it's a spell. So I can find them, but then I can't do anything about them.

A typical situation would be getting to a locked door, with a trap, and with an alarm spell. I can see it's locked and can pick the lock. I can disable the device that triggers the trap just fine. But I can't do anything about the alarm spell, so as soon as we enter our presence is known.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/alarm.html

I'm not sure how to get past it. Deuxhero said something about Adamantine...I'm not sure I know what he meant though, so color me confused.

balegar
2014-12-07, 10:02 PM
Make your own doors is what he meant, adamantine bypasses object hardness.

deuxhero
2014-12-07, 10:05 PM
Weapons made of it bypass hardness of just about anything short of more adamantine. This means that you can easily cut through stone, steel or whatever is next to a trapped door.

I question how you have alarms (seemingly permanant ones no less!) everwher in a low magic world.

Odessa333
2014-12-07, 10:08 PM
Weapons made of it bypass hardness of just about anything short of more adamantine. This means that you can easily cut through stone, steel or whatever is next to a trapped door.

I question how you have alarms (seemingly permanant ones no less!) everwher in a low magic world.

Yea, I asked that too (rolls eyes). Level 6 and I still can't get a magic weapon to help me fight, and suddenly there are magic alarms everywhere I can't get past. REALLY annoying.

Douglas
2014-12-07, 10:08 PM
I'm not sure how to get past it. Deuxhero said something about Adamantine...I'm not sure I know what he meant though, so color me confused.
"There's an Alarm on the door? Ok, I chop a hole in the wall instead."

Kelb_Panthera
2014-12-07, 10:21 PM
We're level 6, and it is a low magic game, hence why I can't get such advanced things like dispel magic. I can find/see the alarm spells (my perception, knowledge arcane, and spell craft are all high enough that I can identify it) but I'm not allowed to disarm them. I can disarm magical traps, but the alarm spell isn't a physical trap, it's a spell. So I can find them, but then I can't do anything about them.

A typical situation would be getting to a locked door, with a trap, and with an alarm spell. I can see it's locked and can pick the lock. I can disable the device that triggers the trap just fine. But I can't do anything about the alarm spell, so as soon as we enter our presence is known.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/alarm.html

I'm not sure how to get past it. Deuxhero said something about Adamantine...I'm not sure I know what he meant though, so color me confused.

It doesn't need to be a physical trap for trapfinding to let you bypass it.

Note this spel (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/symbolOfPersuasion.html#symbol-of-persuasion) reminds us that bypassing magical traps that -are- simply spell effects is not only possible, but expected as part of a rogue's skillset. The DM shuold have DC's in the PF DMG equivalent.

EDIT:

found it. The DC is 25 + the level of the spell.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/disableDevice.html#disable-device

Jack_Simth
2014-12-07, 10:27 PM
Yea, I asked that too (rolls eyes). Level 6 and I still can't get a magic weapon to help me fight, and suddenly there are magic alarms everywhere I can't get past. REALLY annoying.

To appearances, the DM is actively nerfing your character. When it comes down to it, the only things you can do about it that will have a real impact are:
1) Have a chat with the DM about it
2) Try to ride it out and wait for the DM to get bored
3) Leave the game

Any attempt at getting around the limitation that the DM has imposed will simply be met with one form of escalation or another - and the DM makes the world, and thus has limitless resources within it. Oh, sure: You can see about having the party Cleric cast a Silence spell on the area of the alarm or some such... but then they'll all be mental ping alarms tuned to the local guards. Sure, you can get the party well away, hide, then deliberately trip the alarm and simply wait for the guards to give up... but then the guards will thereafter have AMAZING Perception checks. You can't truly win a battle of escalation against the DM.

Faily
2014-12-07, 10:30 PM
I'm not sure how to get past it. Deuxhero said something about Adamantine...I'm not sure I know what he meant though, so color me confused.

I believe what he meant was that if there's an Alarm spell on the door, you use the Adamantine tool/weapon to hack your way in through a wall and around the Alarm spell. My groups have done similar since we rarely have anyone who can pick locks... we either hack our ways past with weapons, or summon Fantastic Machines or other monsters to do it for us. :smallwink:

Other ways to bypass Alarm:
- Use Commune or other Divination spells to find out what the password to pass into the Alarm-area safely is (works for a big op where you have time to plan). When Alarm is cast, the caster assigns a password that he and his allies may use to walk in and out of Alarm without setting it off.

-Fun one I found when Googling the dilemma: "The spell is an emanation. If you can determine the point in space it is cast upon, you can enclose that point within a container and the emanation is prevented. Perhaps a flying familiar or unseen servant could hold a container around that point? Or have the servant open a bag of holding and lift the bag so that the point is inside. The emanation will not cross a planar boundary."

- Powder of Silent Passage from Eberron's Sharn: City of Towers. Wondrous Item that temporarily disrupts an active Alarm spell or the warning effect of Arcane Seal. Throw the powder into the area of the Alarm (and say the command word for activating the magic item) to suppress the Alarm for a number of minutes equal to 21-CL of the caster of the Alarm spell. Costs 300GP. Requires CL1, Craft Wondrous Items and Nystul's Magic Aura to create.

- Gaseous form (available in potions) might work?

aleucard
2014-12-07, 10:32 PM
Yeah. Either tell the DM straight-up that neutralizing your entire character's function of design is not appreciated and work out the situation from there (either with the DM no longer using such tactics, you being given a method of bypass (most likely related to the now-higher magic of the campaign), or you making a different character that he won't nerf into uselessness) or tell him that he's making the game unfun and that it either stops or you walk. This is completely and entirely on the DM at this point. If he's unwilling to at least attempt to make a fun game (challenging, but not impossible), then you have better things to do with your time than put up with his crap.

JDL
2014-12-07, 10:39 PM
1. Buy a pet rat.
2. Handle Animal check to make it walk up to the door (DC 15).
3. Repeat every hour.

Eventually whatever is behind the door will get fed up and come out, or stop paying attention to the alarm completely.

Calimehter
2014-12-07, 10:41 PM
Alarm is set off by anything Tiny or larger that moves into its area of effect. Seems to me one way to discourage lots of Alarm spells is to generate a lot of false alarm triggers, using your stealth to blend into the background (and/or simply leave) after tripping the spell. Training a ferret or some other critter to run out there and run back to you is one way to do it. Another, if people really are using this all over town, is to just chuck some stray cats into their perimeter and sneak away laughing. Just keep doing this sort of thing till your target (and/or the DM) gets sick of placing alarm spells all over the place.

I'm usually on the other end of this sort of thing - my DM likes to trip my Alarm spells with all manner of innocent forest/dungeon critters - so I can speak with some experience as to how annoying it is. ;)

------------------------------

Dipping a single level into a spellcaster can get you Summon Monster 1 to run the same tricks as above, and can also get you Dispel Ward as a first level spell to boot.

Gavinfoxx
2014-12-07, 10:54 PM
As long as you have trapfinding, you can disarm it, it is an actual rune cast on a thing, yaknow?

Curmudgeon
2014-12-07, 11:48 PM
I can disarm magical traps, but the alarm spell isn't a physical trap, it's a spell.
Alarm is a spell trap, a type of magic trap.

Restriction: Rogues (and other characters with the trapfinding class feature) can disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the spell level of the magic used to create it. For traps a Rogue only needs two skills:

Search to find any kind of trap, including spell traps.
Disable Device to disable any kind of trap, including spell traps.
You don't need perception skills (Spot, Listen) to find any traps; and you don't need Spellcraft to identify any magic trap.
From pages 67-68 of Dungeon Master's Guide (the Traps section):
Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.

A successful Search check (DC 25 + spell level) made by a rogue (and only a rogue) detects a magic trap before it goes off. Other characters have no chance to find a magic trap with a Search check.
Magic traps may be disarmed by a rogue (and only a rogue) with a successful Disable Device check (DC 25 + spell level).
There is no language to the contrary in the Alarm spell description, so the skills work as stated.

Exegesis
2014-12-08, 04:55 AM
Take a level in sorcerer or wizard and get a hummingbird familiar (average 3 inches—a Fine creature who doesn't provoke the trap). If dragon magazine is disallowed, take a rat (better hands anyway) and boost them on a Tenser's floating disc. Your familiar uses your skill ranks, and there's no penalty for failing to disarm an Alarm—so have them fly in and take 20 to search and disable.

Darrin
2014-12-08, 07:34 AM
Buy a Chaos Flask (100 GP, Planar Handbook). When you get near the alarm spell, make a Wis check DC 13 to turn the Chaos Flask into Flux Slime (ELH p. 107). This creates an antimagic field with a 10' radius, and it lasts for one round for every point of Wis you have before it evaporates.

ericgrau
2014-12-08, 09:34 AM
There's no good defense against DM fiat, b/c he'll just fiat again against whatever you pick next. How many things were alarmed before you played a rogue?? It is a reasonable preparation to pay a mage 120 gp a day to keep something major alarmed. Maybe get a discount with a hired mage on staff. And for you to follow one of the many suggestions to remove it. But it's not reasonable to alarm every little thing.

Ask how many enemies had locked gauntlets in the last fight? How many foes were immune to mind affected effects? How many foes were immune to a specific energy type? How many had wind wall in case of archers? Or how many were prepared to stop every other build strategy besides the one you happen to be playing? Talk to the DM and tell him you're being unreasonably picked on. If it's protecting something major which also has other wards, or they expect you to come then fine, but otherwise why would they think to alarm everything??

Actually a mundane alarm and a poorly paid guy to pull it would be a much more reasonable cost. You might knock him out before he does, but at least then it's affordable enough to be commonplace and doesn't stink of fiat.

EDIT: Or I suppose there is one way around DM fiat. Have 20 plans of attack for the next 20 encounters. Switch every time, whether or not you're sure the DM has figured out a counter. You may tick everyone off like this though. Better to just talk with the DM.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-12-08, 09:38 AM
Buy a Chaos Flask (100 GP, Planar Handbook). When you get near the alarm spell, make a Wis check DC 13 to turn the Chaos Flask into Flux Slime (ELH p. 107). This creates an antimagic field with a 10' radius, and it lasts for one round for every point of Wis you have before it evaporates.

Oooh. Gonna have to remember that one.

Segev
2014-12-08, 09:45 AM
Can't do this just yet, but next level, get the wizard to polymorph you into something Fine or Diminuitive and then go into the warded areas to disable things.

Have your party wizard prepare Dispel Magic.

Go around the alarm (the adamantine "make your own door" approach could work).

Use a grappling hook to pull that safe OUT of the alarmed area. Alarm can only be centered on a point in space, by default; for it to be attached to the safe, the safe would have to be a magic item. (If you're encountering Alarm magic items, start collecting them!)

Crake
2014-12-08, 10:36 AM
Also, can't you just cast Alarm to dispel Alarm? If Alarm is common, you should be able to try countering it.

That's... not how dispelling works, and dispelling is not the same as countering.

For clarification, a spell cannot be used to dispel another copy of that same spell (so you can't cast alarm on an already existing alarm spell to dispel it). Countering is different from dispelling in that you counter a spell as it is being cast to prevent it from being cast in the first place. In this circumstance, you could counter the alarm spell with another alarm spell, but only as it's being cast (you need to ready an action or have something that allows you to do it as an immediate action).

Psyren
2014-12-08, 10:49 AM
OP I'm confused - are you playing 3.5 or Pathfinder? You quoted the PRD version of Alarm in post #6 so I'm assuming PF, but there is a lot of 3.5-specific advice in this thread and I want to be sure you're not getting erroneous information.

In PF, anybody can detect magic traps, and they do so via Perception, not Search (which no longer exists.) As long as anyone makes the DC, they can tell the alarm is there.

Only someone with Trapfinding (like your rogue) can disable the trap, but the rules on doing this are vague in both editions. For instance, Alarm is a proximity trap with a 20ft. radius from a point in space, but it does not state how close the rogue has to be to that point of origin to be able to turn it off. If rogues have to get next to proximity traps to disable them, then Disable Device is generally useless against them, since you will always set off the trap before you can get close enough. Hopefully your DM does not rule that way, but even if he does, you can still help spot the trap and then ask a spellcaster to fire a dispel from outside its radius; if the party is level 6, someone should have a dispel magic.

Curmudgeon
2014-12-08, 12:06 PM
Only someone with Trapfinding (like your rogue) can disable the trap, but the rules on doing this are vague in both editions. For instance, Alarm is a proximity trap with a 20ft. radius from a point in space, but it does not state how close the rogue has to be to that point of origin to be able to turn it off.
There isn't such a limit, at least in D&D 3.5. We know this from (among several examples) Symbol of Death.
Until it is triggered, the symbol of death is inactive (though visible and legible at a distance of 60 feet).
...
As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can’t trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). Once the spell is cast, a symbol of death’s triggering conditions cannot be changed.
...
Note: Magic traps such as symbol of death are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find a symbol of death and Disable Device to thwart it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 33 for symbol of death.
The Search skill lets a character discern some small detail or irregularity through active effort.
...
Check You generally must be within 10 feet of the object or surface to be searched. You can trigger a Symbol of Death by looking in its direction within 60'. And Search generally doesn't function past 10'. However, the rules are explicit that a Rogue can use Search and Disable Device on this spell trap. Obviously the Rogue can't do so if they're dead, so they have to be able to both find and disable the trap without triggering it. That means either (1) doing so from outside the 60' radius, taking advantage of the "generally" qualifier of Search; or (2) the spell trap not working as described on anyone with Rogue levels because there's a chance that they could start to Search once they got within 10'. Since there's nothing in the rules which backs up interpretation (2), and no distance specification (no details at all, actually) for a Rogue disabling spell traps, then (1) is all that's left. The Rogue can use Search and Disable Device to find and disable magic traps from outside their trigger range.

Mr Adventurer
2014-12-08, 12:13 PM
If it's an emanation, can't you just take total cover from it behind a tower shield?

Psyren
2014-12-08, 12:16 PM
There isn't such a limit, at least in D&D 3.5. We know this from (among several examples) Symbol of Death. You can trigger a Symbol of Death by looking in its direction within 60'. And Search generally doesn't function past 10'. However, the rules are explicit that a Rogue can use Search and Disable Device on this spell trap. Obviously the Rogue can't do so if they're dead, so they have to be able to both find and disable the trap without triggering it. That means either (1) doing so from outside the 60' radius, taking advantage of the "generally" qualifier of Search; or (2) the spell trap not working as described on anyone with Rogue levels because there's a chance that they could start to Search once they got within 10'. Since there's nothing in the rules which backs up interpretation (2), and no distance specification (no details at all, actually) for a Rogue disabling spell traps, then (1) is all that's left. The Rogue can use Search and Disable Device to find and disable magic traps from outside their trigger range.

You can trigger one that way but that isn't the only possible trigger. It could be a touch Symbol of Death for instance, and so you stay 10ft. away and you're safe. Or you look at it, pass the fort save, and then you're free to walk up and disable it. There are many scenarios under which the Rogue can be within 60' without dying, so your conclusion that the only possible way is that the rogue can disable it from outside the trigger radius does not necessarily follow.

Curmudgeon
2014-12-08, 12:43 PM
You can trigger one that way but that isn't the only possible trigger. It could be a touch Symbol of Death for instance, and so you stay 10ft. away and you're safe. Or you look at it, pass the fort save, and then you're free to walk up and disable it. There are many scenarios under which the Rogue can be within 60' without dying, so your conclusion that the only possible way is that the rogue can disable it from outside the trigger radius does not necessarily follow.
The statement that a Rogue can use the Search skill to find a Symbol of Death and Disable Device to thwart it isn't dependent on any of those things; it's an absolute statement regardless of context. So they have to be able to do so when they're 60' away, look at a Symbol of Death that's triggered by viewing, and couldn't make a Fortitude save of that DC.

Psyren
2014-12-08, 12:50 PM
The statement that a Rogue can use the Search skill to find a Symbol of Death and Disable Device to thwart it isn't dependent on any of those things; it's an absolute statement regardless of context. So they have to be able to do so when they're 60' away, look at a Symbol of Death that's triggered by viewing, and couldn't make a Fortitude save of that DC.

"Can" just means "it's possible." Which it is, because there are conditions built into the spell that enable that possibility, such as a fort save or the glyph needing to be touched/passed under in order to trigger.

Your argument is akin to saying that an unconscious/helpless rogue, who cannot take any actions at all, can still make a Disable Device check to remove a Symbol of Death because the spell specifically says he "can," and therefore overrides the general prohibition of unconsciousness preventing actions.

Curmudgeon
2014-12-08, 01:06 PM
Your argument is akin to saying that an unconscious/helpless rogue, who cannot take any actions at all, can still make a Disable Device check ...
I don't believe that's a valid analogy. You're positing external conflicts. I'm simply pointing out that Symbol of Death itself states that the Rogue can find and disable it, and that statement isn't qualified by particular decisions regarding how the spell is used.

Psyren
2014-12-08, 01:47 PM
I don't believe that's a valid analogy. You're positing external conflicts. I'm simply pointing out that Symbol of Death itself states that the Rogue can find and disable it, and that statement isn't qualified by particular decisions regarding how the spell is used.

There are no distinctions between "external or internal" in the term "can." If you acknowledge there are situations where "can" can be overridden, then those situations can come from either direction.

In addition, I'm not even overriding the term "can." The fact that a rogue can disable a trap does not imply being immune to its effects or doing so from a position of safety; this is particularly true for symbol spells, which can remain active even after being triggered (and thus still needing to be disabled.) For example, if a rogue has 60 hit points, triggers the trap and makes his save, said trap will remain active even though it hasn't done anything to him, and if he wants his allies to approach it safely he will need to disable it. Thus "being able to disarm a trap" does not automatically denote "being invulnerable to that trap's effects" or even "being able to disarm a trap from outside its effective radius." It can mean that, and perhaps even should, but it is not clearly stated to be that way anywhere.

Bronk
2014-12-08, 02:03 PM
If it's an emanation, can't you just take total cover from it behind a tower shield?

I like this!

I also think it should be possible to roleplay (interrogation, etc.) or use spells to figure out the passwords... According to the spell, the password is always determined at the time of casting.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-12-08, 06:08 PM
While most of the advice given does work to bypass an Alarm spell to one extent or another it doesn't really help if your DM is determined to make your life as a rogue impossible. That's an OOC problem and should be solved OOC.
"Everything has Alarm cast on it but the resources to bypass it aren't available because low magic" is exactly such a problem.

If your DM can't stand having a rogue actually use his class abilities (beyond disabling a few traps for forms sake and opening doors he wants you to get through anyway),
ask to roll a new character or at least rebuild to a skillset that you can actually use. Playing a skill-focused rogue in a campaign where those skills are effectively made useless isn't fun for anyone.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2014-12-08, 09:25 PM
We're level 6, and it is a low magic game...

Frankly, an abundance of low-level spells when it would thwart the party, but a lack of available magic when it would help the party, is not 'low-magic', it's just your DM not playing nice.

Jowgen
2014-12-08, 10:11 PM
I feel like this quote from Dungeonscape is relevant to the "search for trigger" debate.


Search: this section gives the DC of the Search check that is required to find the trap. If the DC is exceeded by 10 or more, the searcher also finds the specific area from which one of the attacks will originate (allowing it to be disarmed before the trap is sprung)

I personally do side with those arguing OOC resolution. It doesn't matter if you can prove to your DM that you can use search to determine where the trigger-area of an alarm spell will start if he simply does not want you to do that. The key is good communication. Find out why he's against it.

Perhaps he's worried that you being too good at stealth will mess with his game. Maybe he fears that your character will get too wealthy if he's able to actually steal stuff. Or it could be more basic in that he's insecure about his DMing ability, and you being able to disable device alarms takes the resulting possibilities out of his comfort zone. I've had a DM arguing that we couldn't take 10 on knowledge checks because he worried that reliable access to relevant information would cause our characters to overcome certain challenges too easily, and he didn't feel like he was up to the challenge of adapting the game to accommodate for that increase in capacity.

Alternatively, your DM might have flavor-based reasons, along the lines of: "Rogue's aren't spellcasters, they don't even have knowledge arcana or spellcraft as a class-skill, so how could they possibly be able to detect an invisible magical alarm field, let alone disable it?". If this happens to be his flavor-shtick, I recommend arguing based on Rogues having Use Magic Device. They don't understand magic in the slightest, but they are intuitive about it, and they can search using that intuitive rogue instinct just like how they can intuitively work a wand. Also, since their line of work commonly pits them against magical defences, they've build on that intuition and their trial'n'error experience to devise "dirty fixes" to those common problems. Maybe the rogue chants some arcane words he doesn't understand while waving his hands around. Maybe he scribbles and scratches some runes on the ground, thinking it might disrupt the flow of magic. Some the stuff the rogue does might work, some might be pointless; but if it looks dumb yet works then it isn't dumb. Investing ranks in disable device for a rogue means learning to distinguish the "dirty fixes" that actually work from those that don't, and improving those that do work.

Either case, be polite and figure out your DMs beef. It probably has something to do with him running a "low magic" game in the first place. Once you know his worries, you can work something out to relieve them. Deep down he knows it's all about the player experience.

SaintNick
2014-12-08, 10:57 PM
You could intentionally set it off repeatedly with rats/mice and then once the owner gets annoyed enough market yourselves as exterminators. Spread a rumor around town that there's a rat problem in town and that said group has been helpful resolving it. Might be a good way to test the DM to see if he plays along or not.

Seclora
2014-12-08, 11:09 PM
You could intentionally set it off repeatedly with rats/mice and then once the owner gets annoyed enough market yourselves as exterminators. Spread a rumor around town that there's a rat problem in town and that said group has been helpful resolving it. Might be a good way to test the DM to see if he plays along or not.

Seconding this, but with a slight modification.

Instead of Rats/mice, use small owls. Claim to be Owl Exterminators.

Duke of Urrel
2014-12-08, 11:17 PM
There isn't such a limit, at least in D&D 3.5. We know this from (among several examples) Symbol of Death. You can trigger a Symbol of Death by looking in its direction within 60'. And Search generally doesn't function past 10'. However, the rules are explicit that a Rogue can use Search and Disable Device on this spell trap. Obviously the Rogue can't do so if they're dead, so they have to be able to both find and disable the trap without triggering it. That means either (1) doing so from outside the 60' radius, taking advantage of the "generally" qualifier of Search; or (2) the spell trap not working as described on anyone with Rogue levels because there's a chance that they could start to Search once they got within 10'. Since there's nothing in the rules which backs up interpretation (2), and no distance specification (no details at all, actually) for a Rogue disabling spell traps, then (1) is all that's left. The Rogue can use Search and Disable Device to find and disable magic traps from outside their trigger range.

I agree with this reasoning. I believe there's a reason why the word "generally" was written into the SRD's rules for Search checks.

Unfortunately, the Rules Compendium has somewhat stricter wording (on page 114): “A searcher must be within 10 feet of the object or surface to be searched.”

I get around this rule with my own house rule. I consider any trap, whether it is mundane or magical, to occupy the entire area that it can affect when it is activated. Therefore, if a Symbol is activated by touch, a rogue using Search skill must approach within 10 feet of it to detect the Symbol. In contrast, if a Symbol can harm you from 60 feet away, then I consider the Symbol to occupy the entire 60-foot-radius sphere. Any rogue that actively uses Search skill and comes within 10 feet of this sphere makes a Search check. If the Search check succeeds, the rogue detects the trap before entering the sphere, or before looking directly at the mystical magic rune that has been inscribed in the center of it.

How does this work? I shrug and refer to the "sixth sense" that only rogues develop with respect to traps of all kinds. Here's my argument in full: The Trapfinding ability of rogues is an extraordinary sixth sense that works like hearing, even around corners, and it empowers you to sense the direction in which a trap lies even if you cannot see it, for example in prohibitive darkness or an impenetrable murky medium. You can even discern whether a trap is magical or mechanical. Of course, in any case, being unable to see a trap imposes a penalty of –4 on your Search check, as usual.

I consider Disable Device skill to consist of many separate skills, one of which is the ability to approach a trap closely enough to disarm it without triggering it. The actual distance between you and the disarmable part of the trap will vary from one trap to another. The rules describe all the possible consequences: If your Disable Device check fails by five or more, you activate the trap. If your check fails by four or less, you waste 2d4 rounds, but you are aware that you have failed. If your check succeeds, you disarm the trap in 2d4 rounds.

I am not quite as generous with Disable Device skill as I am with Search skill. As a house rule, I require you to be able to see some critical part of a trap in order to use Disable Device skill disarm it.

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My advice to a rogue who encounters the Alarm spell everywhere is to acquire a wand of Dispel Magic as soon as possible.