Alternate Scroll Systems

[pwykersotz]

While I have nothing particularly against the current magic item system, it doesn't really work for scrolls at my table. That said, I whipped up an alternate system for scribing them.


Scribing Scrolls

Penning magic to paper is a time honored tradition, and simple to do. Special inks valued at 5gp per scroll must be used. The time it takes to do so is a Short Rest. Valuable material components or foci are either sacrificed at the time of creation and henceforth consumed, or are required to be present when the scroll is used; anyone reading the scroll can immediately determine if the component was included or not. When created, the caster loses a spell slot equal in level to the spell he created. It remains lost until the scroll is used or destroyed. Mages typically make scrolls to allow others to perform their magic at a distant location or to hold onto a spell they don't know but had time to copy.

I have no Wizards in my party at the moment, so I haven't yet pondered the implications of that. So, what do you guys think? Any others systems you use? Any pitfalls of this one to which I might be blind?

[MaxWilson]

While I have nothing particularly against the current magic item system, it doesn't really work for scrolls at my table. That said, I whipped up an alternate system for scribing them.

I have no Wizards in my party at the moment, so I haven't yet pondered the implications of that. So, what do you guys think? Any others systems you use? Any pitfalls of this one to which I might be blind?

Well, at least your system explains why scrolls of 9th level spells are Legendarily rare: nobody wants to lose their only 9th level spell slot.

Potential pitfalls I can see:

* Simulacra never regain spell slots anyway, so they might as well scribe spells.
* Scribing allows you to bypass the "spells known" mechanic at the cost of flexibility in your spell slots.

I can't think of any good ways to abuse the second potential pitfall at the moment so it might not be an issue. I can think of ways to use it (I can't decide whether to kick Mass Suggestion or Mislead off my known spells list for now, so I just scribe Mage Armor and then drop it from my known spells list and keep both Mislead and Mass Suggestion) but those uses don't feel like abuses.

[Giant2005]

The ink seems a little cheap - normal ink costs 10g.

[pwykersotz]

The ink seems a little cheap - normal ink costs 10g.

Ah, excellent point. I never actually checked the goods and services chart, I just spitballed the price. 10gp is fine too, the price is supposed to be nominal.


I can't think of any good ways to abuse the second potential pitfall at the moment so it might not be an issue. I can think of ways to use it (I can't decide whether to kick Mass Suggestion or Mislead off my known spells list for now, so I just scribe Mage Armor and then drop it from my known spells list and keep both Mislead and Mass Suggestion) but those uses don't feel like abuses.

Yeah, that sounds like just good use to me.

[archaeo]

I think I prefer the DMG's rules, but in this variant, I'd suggest making it two slots of the same level for 1st-7th level scroll, with 8th level scrolls requiring the 8th and 9th slots. 9th level scrolls could either be impossible to craft, require all spell slots above 7th level, or require that 9th level slot plus a temporary -2 to Int/Wis/Cha. Also, I'd specify that when a scroll is used, the scribe regains the spell slot as if it had been used to cast, requiring a long rest (or a class' slot recharging feature) to use again.

This would make the opportunity cost a little higher, which I think might reduce some of the abuse you'd see with this system. Casters would almost always scribe a few spells and pass them around, allowing for some really intense nova damage. It would make rogues very dangerous, and if you let people who have taken Magic Initiate read scrolls, it would make every martial want to take that feat.

[Daishain]

The ink seems a little cheap - normal ink costs 10g.

normal ink costs 10 gp for a vial that could conceivably be used to write hundreds of pages of paper. At 5 gp per page, this ink is a lot more expensive.

That stated, it still seems a little low, just not for that reason.

[pwykersotz]

I think I prefer the DMG's rules, but in this variant, I'd suggest making it two slots of the same level for 1st-7th level scroll, with 8th level scrolls requiring the 8th and 9th slots. 9th level scrolls could either be impossible to craft, require all spell slots above 7th level, or require that 9th level slot plus a temporary -2 to Int/Wis/Cha. Also, I'd specify that when a scroll is used, the scribe regains the spell slot as if it had been used to cast, requiring a long rest (or a class' slot recharging feature) to use again.

This would make the opportunity cost a little higher, which I think might reduce some of the abuse you'd see with this system. Casters would almost always scribe a few spells and pass them around, allowing for some really intense nova damage. It would make rogues very dangerous, and if you let people who have taken Magic Initiate read scrolls, it would make every martial want to take that feat.

The bolded point is excellent, I'll add it in.

As for the rest, I'm not sure how thoroughly the system can be abused. I suppose if they parceled their spells out to the entire part allowing for 4 fireballs at once or something, that could get mean, but using scrolls is a risk what with the failure chance. And then the Wizard just runs out of spells that much more quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the char op on this board so far has mentioned running out of spells fairly fast as a caster.

Now Simulacrum cheese...it's not a problem at my table because that spell isn't in use, but I play at many tables and I'd like it to have the variant be as palatable as possible. Scribing spells certainly doesn't fall into the "become more powerful" clause, at least I don't think so. We could say a magical construct can't make scrolls at all, but that seems a bit arbitrary when it can still cast the spells anyway. I could increase the price of the ink to 1/2 the listed scroll cost. I hate economic prohibitions, but it might be reasonably effective. But yeah, that's a tough one. That spell is bananas.

[Safety Sword]

I'm just wondering why anyone ever would make a scroll under this system?

If it holds the spell slot until it is used it doesn't seem worth it. Carrying around an "expended" spell slot is a pretty big cost.

[pwykersotz]

I'm just wondering why anyone ever would make a scroll under this system?

If it holds the spell slot until it is used it doesn't seem worth it. Carrying around an "expended" spell slot is a pretty big cost.

Because, unless found as treasure, scrolls under this system are not designed to be extra batteries for you caster. They're designed to add flexibility and utility. You wouldn't carry around a scroll of your own spells, you'd carry around a scroll of someone else's or give your spells to someone who needs them (presumably a party member). Also, you can stretch it by allowing it to function as an extra spell that you prepare. Scribe a scroll of a spell you know you're going to need (say Fly) and then you don't have to prepare it that day. It comes with dangers, true, for example the spell could be stolen, but odds are you spend a little gold and time, and gain a little versatility for the party.

Also, I kinda hate that scribing a scroll takes so long and costs so much to make. It doesn't fit the scroll use that my party likes. There are other ways to do it, this is just the one I came up with.

[MaxWilson]

I'm just wondering why anyone ever would make a scroll under this system?

If it holds the spell slot until it is used it doesn't seem worth it. Carrying around an "expended" spell slot is a pretty big cost.

Under the two-slot system, no, I would never make a scroll. Under the original proposal, I gave a corner case where I would make a scroll: a low-level spell that I knew in advance approximately how many times I needed to cast it. There is of course a risk (what happens if the scroll gets stolen?), so I would not make scrolls for higher-level spells.

It also potentially lets you leverage your action economy by having 1st level apprentices cast your spells for you. That's more of an NPC thing but 5E intentionally enables this as a PC strategy.

[Safety Sword]

Casters are not getting that many spell slots to use that they can afford to have them unavailable.

As a wizard I would never make a scroll under this proposed system.

Other casters who have "spells known" limitations would benefit from some flexibility, perhaps. I still think having your spell slots closed off is a bad idea.

If the intention of scrolls is to have that handy utility spell in your back pocket I think this has significant drawbacks.