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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Hydra-Born [Race][WIP]



CrusaderJoe
2014-12-08, 04:33 AM
Hydra-Born

Evolution or a Wizard really really shouldn't have... But whatever the reason yeah these things exist... Don't ask don't tell tends to work best with this.


Hydra-Born Traits

Ability Score Increases: Increase your Constitution by 2.

Age: Hydra-Born mature at the age of 10 and live to be about 200 years old.

Alignment: Hydra-Born do not gravitate toward one particular alignment.

Size: Large. As a large creature your weapon damage deal an additional 2 damage. This stacks with other sources of extra damage but is only added once per attack.

Speed: 30'

Darkvision: Due to your Hydra ancestry, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions.

Multi-Headed: You gain proficiency with the perception skill. Also while you are not incapacitated you can not be surprised. You have two heads at level 1, three heads at level 5, four heads at level 11, and five heads at level 17.

Hydra's Bite: Your extra heads count as weapons that deal 1d8 + Str/Dex Mod + Size Bonus. These count as unarmed finesse weapons (this might change) and may be used in place of weapons when you take the attack action or bonus action. For each additional head you have you may take an additional reaction each round to attack a target that provokes by moving out of your threatened reach.

Pyro Hydra-Born: You gain +1 Dexterity. You have resistance against fire damage and you may choose to have your bites do Fire damage instead of piercing damage.

Cryo Hydra-Born: You gain +1 Strength. You have resistance against cold damage and you may choose to have your bites do Cold damage instead of piercing damage.

Alkali Hydra-Born: You gain + 1 Strength. You have resistance against acid damage and you may choose to have your bites do Acid damage instead of piercing damage.

Psyo Hydra-Born: You gain +1 Intelligence. You have resistance against psychic damage and you may choose to have your bites deal Psychic damage instead of piercing damage. Your damage dice is reduced to d6.


Ok so these things have the body of a lizardfolk, but they start off with two hydra heads. They have tails but they are mostly for show.


Might be a little tough and needing some balance but I wanted to make a race that would compete with the Variant Human.


Flurry of Bites: Changed to simplify things. You all made me realize there is a better way of doing things.

So should they stay finesse and unarmed attacks or count them as something else? I call them unarmed attacks so that duelist or whatever can't be applied.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 12:05 AM
Why not an ability to non-magically shape change into a hydra?

D&D is sorely lacking (for years) on that type of lore. Non magical shapeshifting in literature isn't always magical but for some reason in D&D it always has to be.

Ziegander
2014-12-09, 12:25 AM
Did you mean for Flurry of Bites to be a bonus action? Because if not, I can't ever see myself using it.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 12:29 AM
Did you mean for Flurry of Bites to be a bonus action? Because if not, I can't ever see myself using it.

Looks like it is a cantrip level ability that you can switch from being Piercing Damage to being (Elemental) damage.

Not sure why it would be a bonus action but I guess it doesn't have a rider effect like most cantrip level abilities do.

Ziegander
2014-12-09, 12:46 AM
Looks like it is a cantrip level ability that you can switch from being Piercing Damage to being (Elemental) damage.

Not sure why it would be a bonus action but I guess it doesn't have a rider effect like most cantrip level abilities do.

I'm just saying, you're Large, so you presumably have reach 10ft anyway, and it deals 1d8 damage as an action while you could swing a Greatsword at the same target for 2d6 + 1d4 + Str mod damage. You have no reason to ever use Flurry of Bites when you can just attack with a weapon for far superior damage. I guess the option to deal elemental damage helps its relevance in certain situations, and maybe that was the point, but it still seems quite weak and niche. I'm not sure making it a bonus action would be balanced, but in it's current form I don't see it being used much, if ever.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 12:56 AM
I'm just saying, you're Large, so you presumably have reach 10ft anyway, and it deals 1d8 damage as an action while you could swing a Greatsword at the same target for 2d6 + 1d4 + Str mod damage. You have no reason to ever use Flurry of Bites when you can just attack with a weapon for far superior damage. I guess the option to deal elemental damage helps its relevance in certain situations, and maybe that was the point, but it still seems quite weak and niche. I'm not sure making it a bonus action would be balanced, but in it's current form I don't see it being used much, if ever.


If you are having a hard time hitting the AC of a creature due to spells or disadvantage (being in magical darkness) then having Flurry of Bites will be great. Or if you just don't have a weapon you are proficient with. Or the target has resistance to slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage, or you know the target has vulnerability to your elemental damage.

Not that niche really, there are plenty of uses for it. You don't use it because it is the most optimal damage choice but because it is the more optimal attack choice.

Ziegander
2014-12-09, 01:20 AM
If you are having a hard time hitting the AC of a creature due to spells or disadvantage (being in magical darkness) then having Flurry of Bites will be great. Or if you just don't have a weapon you are proficient with. Or the target has resistance to slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage, or you know the target has vulnerability to your elemental damage.

Hmm. Compelling points. I would want to see some math comparing various ACs and Reflex saves to determine how much of difference it would make in damage per round. I mean, just at 1st level, with Str 16, 2d6 + 1d4 + 3 (avg 12.5) vs 1d8 (avg 4.5) is a massive difference and it would have to be a pretty dire circumstance, I imagine, to cause you to switch from your weapon to your bites. Disadvantage and resistance effectively halve your weapon damage, but that still brings it ahead of your bites damage, while knowing your target has vulnerability still only brings the bites to 9 damage. I don't know... needs more maths probably, but Flurry of Bites still feels weak.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 01:42 AM
Hmm. Compelling points. I would want to see some math comparing various ACs and Reflex saves to determine how much of difference it would make in damage per round. I mean, just at 1st level, with Str 16, 2d6 + 1d4 + 3 (avg 12.5) vs 1d8 (avg 4.5) is a massive difference and it would have to be a pretty dire circumstance, I imagine, to cause you to switch from your weapon to your bites. Disadvantage and resistance effectively halve your weapon damage, but that still brings it ahead of your bites damage, while knowing your target has vulnerability still only brings the bites to 9 damage. I don't know... needs more maths probably, but Flurry of Bites still feels weak.

You are way too focused on damage optimization and not enough on actual game play.

In game play, crap happens that causes you not to be optimized. Sure its fun to be the best and all that junk but in 5e you don't need to be the best to be good. This racial ability (needs compared to dragon born breath weapon) seems more of a contingency ability than primary damage ability. Dealing 5 dmg per round will get you by at low levels since most creatures don't have a bazillion HP. Edit: And you have murderhobo coworkers.

Could flurry of bites be upgraded? Yeah probably but there is more to the game than damage optimization.

Also large creatures in 5e tend to have 5' reach.

Ziegander
2014-12-09, 01:46 AM
You are way too focused on damage optimization and not enough on actual game play.

Not really. My point is just that if you're hardly ever going to use the ability, then maybe you want to make it something more attractive. It's sort of hard to tell how powerful the Hydra-Born is, probably quite powerful enough that it doesn't need anything else beyond +1d4 weapon damage, perception prof, and darkvision, but I just generally make the assumption that designers don't design abilities that they don't intend PCs to use. Eh, basically I'm just here to provide food for thought for the designer.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 02:06 AM
Not really. My point is just that if you're hardly ever going to use the ability, then maybe you want to make it something more attractive. It's sort of hard to tell how powerful the Hydra-Born is, probably quite powerful enough that it doesn't need anything else beyond +1d4 weapon damage, perception prof, and darkvision, but I just generally make the assumption that designers don't design abilities that they don't intend PCs to use. Eh, basically I'm just here to provide food for thought for the designer.

Have you not seen the Dragonborm? My god their breath weapon is terrible past level... 3 ish. I'm not sure if the designers really wanted you using that ability or not :smallcool:

Also, not all Hydra-Born will have high strength, so a rogue hydra born will be doing 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex +SA. But you would use bites when you can't sneak attack (disadvantage) so 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex... Wait, what if we just included "large" weapon damage to the bites too? Or Str/Dex mod?

1d8 + 1d4 = 6.5 damage on average (kills a goblin if you round up)

1d8 + 3 (starting stat) = 7.5

1d8 + 3 + d4 = 9.5 average damage.

Or, make it a weapon attack as in can be used in conjuncture with a weapon attack.?

You can't duel wield with it but extra attack would make usable with a weapon attack.

Another good use of FoBites is if you have your arms full of other things, say a KO party member, you can still attack and run away with them.

Ziegander
2014-12-09, 02:29 AM
Have you not seen the Dragonborm? My god their breath weapon is terrible past level... 3 ish. I'm not sure if the designers really wanted you using that ability or not :smallcool:

I know. I should have said I generally assume that designers on this forum don't design abilities that bla, bla [...] Dragonborn breath weapon is truly awful... I don't understand how that got published. It's so bad. :smalltongue:


Wait, what if we just included "large" weapon damage to the bites too? Or Str/Dex mod?

Actually if you did one, hell, even both, I think that's a great idea.


Or, make it a weapon attack as in can be used in conjuncture with a weapon attack.?

You can't duel wield with it but extra attack would make usable with a weapon attack.

This is exactly what I was expecting the power to do, but then it got a little weird and disassociated on me. I think it would be great to be able to use it with extra attack. Heck, why not allow it to be "dual-wielded," effectively giving you 1[W] worth of damage as a bonus action scaling with the number of heads? Okay, maybe that is too powerful, but let it not be said that I am not in support of non-casters having Nice ThingsTM. :)


Another good use of FoBites is if you have your arms full of other things, say a KO party member, you can still attack and run away with them.

A cool, and interesting observation. :smallamused:

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-09, 08:33 AM
I know. I should have said I generally assume that designers on this forum don't design abilities that bla, bla [...] Dragonborn breath weapon is truly awful... I don't understand how that got published. It's so bad. :smalltongue:



Actually if you did one, hell, even both, I think that's a great idea.



This is exactly what I was expecting the power to do, but then it got a little weird and disassociated on me. I think it would be great to be able to use it with extra attack. Heck, why not allow it to be "dual-wielded," effectively giving you 1[W] worth of damage as a bonus action scaling with the number of heads? Okay, maybe that is too powerful, but let it not be said that I am not in support of non-casters having Nice ThingsTM. :)



A cool, and interesting observation. :smallamused:

I really really hope they fix the Dragonborn AMD give it a multitude of options for breath weapons such as ones from 4e.

Skill contest version, you can make this an attack toll or a save but I like skill contests.

As a weapon attack your extra head(s) lash out in extreme speeds. For every extra head you have this attack deals 1d8 + 1d4 piercing damage. You add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll. Make a Atheltics or Acrobatics versus Athletics or Acrobatics skill contest versus a target within 10'. If the target wins they take no damage.

You may use Flurry of Bites anytime you would make a weapon attack.

CrusaderJoe
2014-12-10, 12:59 PM
Hmmm I'll take your guy's replies and think on it :)

Thank you

VilimirDrahkme
2016-01-06, 01:30 PM
So it occurred to me that you get multiple heads at different levels right? what about making each head able to bite simultaneously? BTW joined just so I could voice this.
That would up the damage for later levels, and idk how the math works out, but maybe reduce to 1d6 per head? because 2d8 at level one seems quite powerful...
otherwise I really like the idea of this race! KUDOS YOU!
Edit: changed class to race.