PC item removal sans-wizard!

[KoDT69]

I'm looking for any creatures or possible NPC builds that can destroy items equipped or carried by my PC's for tonight's adventure. The plotline is requiring certain items to be relinquished from them, with greater returns at the end. They've already gotten ahead of the WBL curve pretty badly, and I'm trying to keep it from getting out of control before they reach the end of this dungeon. Open to any type of encounter and the group is 6 players, 4 at 9th level, one at 11th, and one at 12th. It can be as deadly as needed or non-lethal, as long as it gets the job done. I was considering converting Negative Elementals from 2nd Edition (Return to the Tomb of Horrors boxed set) or the Blackball from Mystra just for a laugh. :smalltongue: 2 of the prime target item types are belts and plate armor. The dragon armor is easy enough considering the post about resurrection on dragon armors! Moooahahahaha! :smallbiggrin:

[Falconsflight]

My best suggestion is Rust monsters. They can effectively remove any equipment you want gone.

[Assassinfox]

Blackball IS in 3E now, actually.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm

Or, you could sic' an ethereal filcher. IIRC, those are the most infamous as "DM item thieves".

[Jasdoif]

Be aware that players will hate having their equipment destroyed, plotline or not, replaced later or not.

That said, there's the classic rust monster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm) and its psionic cousin, the folugub (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/folugub.htm). A bebilith (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#bebilith) can rend armor. A nightwalker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightwalker) can crush items. A nightwing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightwing) can drain magic out of magical weapons/armor/shields, though this can be fixed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's always the Orc Barbarians with Improved Sunder breaking the PC's weapons...

but yea, Ethereal Filcher and Rust Monster are the two most iconic of the 'stuff goes away' category.

[KoDT69]

I know players hate getting nailed for gear, but the stuff being targetted was only gained due to my not wanting to be a nazi-DM or question the cleric's knowledge of the RAW. I was wrong in not checking, so the over-the-top items are getting nuked. They know it's coming. The items will be replaced with appropriate items soon after.

I'm liking that one that can just nuke a single enchantment from an item. That's even better than a straight destroy action. The cleric can keep his armor minus the properties he should not have! Awesome! :smallbiggrin: I warned them though that there will be no more item crafting without approval first. I took for granted they knew the rules... :smallyuk:

[PinkysBrain]

Play it intelligently, destroy those objects which give the most return on investment firsts ... which is to say those items casters need to cast spells. Just targeting the non casters is lame.

Hook horrors and ranged sunder haven't been mentioned yet.

[Indon]

A simple skill and dex-heavy rogue could lighten your players' packs, as well, and provide an interesting adventure later as they see _their very magical items_ in another individuals' possession.

[KoDT69]

I bet being slapped with their own weapons would hurt worse than normal too :smallamused: A quick question on the sunder action, does the magical enhancement of the item help anything? How should I handle the item saving throws?

[Jack Mann]

Each +1 of enhancement on weapons, armor, or shields adds 2 to the hardness and 10 hit points.

Saving throws on magic items are equal to 2+1/2 caster level. If someone is carrying them, and they have better saves, then use those saves instead.

[KoDT69]

Thanks Jack! I'm all for being fair, so I'm sure the players will appreciate your post even more :smallbiggrin:

[blacksabre]

Being that the PC's are at that level, sometime in their past they pissed someone off at level 4..now that person is level 10ish now too..and can afford bounties on their head...maybe they even have some of his items..

In my world I have a well known bounty hunter..level 14..Anti-ranger base class...employs (all level 6) 4 fighters 1 mage 2 rogues..and 2 dog handlers...with 3 dogs each

Once my BH is on the hunt, He starts tracking..when found..he sets up the trap/ambush/con what have you..

Dark alley..you figure out how to get them there.....dog handlers at either end of alley..fighters rush out doors on either side, dogs unleashed on casters, crossbowmen on roof..BH enters melee at round two or three as he watches who is the biggest threat..

Capture, throw in a wagon..comfiscate items..they escape..or try...now they have to regain items..prior to them being sold off or devied out as loot..the BH always gets the best pick...he may not always be around to give the item back..or be stupid enough to fight on even terms

[Assassinfox]

Being that the PC's are at that level, sometime in their past they pissed someone off at level 4..now that person is level 10ish now too..and can afford bounties on their head...maybe they even have some of his items..

In my world I have a well known bounty hunter..level 14..Anti-ranger base class...employs (all level 6) 4 fighters 1 mage 2 rogues..and 2 dog handlers...with 3 dogs each

Once my BH is on the hunt, He starts tracking..when found..he sets up the trap/ambush/con what have you..

Dark alley..you figure out how to get them there.....dog handlers at either end of alley..fighters rush out doors on either side, dogs unleashed on casters, crossbowmen on roof..BH enters melee at round two or three as he watches who is the biggest threat..

Capture, throw in a wagon..comfiscate items..they escape..or try...now they have to regain items..prior to them being sold off or devied out as loot..the BH always gets the best pick...he may not always be around to give the item back..or be stupid enough to fight on even terms

Doesn't that seem excessively cruel? Might as well take their clothes away while you're at it.

[Quietus]

I like that idea actually. Sure, the problem is that the items are too powerful, but is it too powerful in general, or too powerful for their level?

If you take away their gear like that, then there's an entire adventure in regaining it. Adventuring comes with : Gaining minor items (masterwork weapons taken from guards, and the like), as well as gaining exp. By the time they get their items back, they may have gotten enough exp that those items are now appropriate for their level.

[daggaz]

You can have an artificer NPC who dismantles the items for his own personal gain...

[MobiusKlein]

You could combine the Artificer NPC with some 'plot point' that requires some vast amount of xp to construct the countering item.
Those xp just happen . . . to match the amounts from some of their cool items. Hey, the could choose to live in the world that has the permanent gate to Hades and keep their magic items, if that's what they want. It gives them the chance to suggest which items to sacrifice, not just a railroad to arbitrarily remove magic items.

[silentknight]

Two creatures from MM2 can destroy items:

Spellgaunt (Large spider-creature) destroys magic.

Rampager destroys armor and has acidic attacks.

[Mewtarthio]

Blackball IS in 3E now, actually.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm

Or, you could sic' an ethereal filcher. IIRC, those are the most infamous as "DM item thieves".

Uh... why all the emphasis on Sense Motive?


Each +1 of enhancement on weapons, armor, or shields adds 2 to the hardness and 10 hit points.

"Real" enhancement or effective enhancement (eg does a +1 Flaming Broadsword get +10 HP or +20 HP)?

[Iggero]

You could always try what my DM did: He killed us all with massively overwhelming forces, then had us resurected soem distance away by happy clerics of Pelor. As onemay well imaginge, we were less than thrilled to have level 21 characters without a scrap of gear, expected to face full fledged level 22 encounters.

[Jamie Fameflame]

Have an NPC seduce one or two of the players, and make them give it to him/her as a sign of affection...

Try to roleplay your way out of it, that's a bit more original than throwing monsters at them.

[Jack Mann]

"Real" enhancement or effective enhancement (eg does a +1 Flaming Broadsword get +10 HP or +20 HP)?
Just says each +1 of enhancement bonus, so presumably just real enhancement bonus.

[blacksabre]

Doesn't that seem excessively cruel? Might as well take their clothes away while you're at it.

Cruel to me is dropping in rust monster encounters for no apparent reason..

My way? Not at all..The loss of the equipment is secondary to the players and they won't be so pissed at the DM as they will the the villian.

It introduces a sub-plot that can be dropped in at any time in the regular campaign..
Who (of the dozens) in our past did we piss off? Is this someone new? Does he want our heads, or our items? Which Item and why?...
It doesn't even have to be armor or a weapon..It could just as easily something obscure:
Example..The Rogue purchased a Bullseye lantern at level 3. It has a ruby lense in it to show red light beam, even if the crystal is imperfect and the light is a little distorted.. (great for burglering)..It is really KEY..The red light pattern is specific to a door(way) to open it..the lantern isn't magical, the door(way) is...Whats behind I'll leave up to you to determine

basically, I'm all for removing items from players...it has to be done from time to time..Its the job of the GM to make the players enjoy having it done to them :)..

If its a blatant "just because", thats bad GMing

[Ikkitosen]

Beholders, with their disintegrate rays and ability to detect magic (I'm assuming these items are powerful and so high up on the knock out list for those that can identify them).

Thieves are also good - sleight of hand could get a belt!

[Attilargh]

An unarmed foe with Improved Disarm might be nasty, as long as he actually gets away with any weapon he manages to snatch.

[its_all_ogre]

trap with mages disjunction.......
very evil

[JackMage666]

I once stole a players minor items (food, extra waterskins, and such) in the desert by using the Sandstorm race that can swim through sand. He jsut swam up next to her, stole the items when she slept, and returned to camp, and sold the items later (or tried to... The party monk tried to steal it from him). So, personally, I'm all about the sneaky rogue who avoids the watch of the person keeping guard. Invisibility works, as do distractions. It's unlike the watchman has See Invisibility active, or took the time to set up tripwires.

[Seffbasilisk]

Bunch of the oozes destroy weapons that hit them if they fail reflex saves.

[silentknight]

Yeah, oozes! Had a black pudding destroy a barb/fighter's armor in a dungeon. Failed his spot check and walked right into it.

[KoDT69]

Oh man, lots of good stuff here. Just for clarification...
Quietus - It is as you expect, too powerful for their level. We're talking weapons and armor of +10 total effective enhancement PLUS a bunch of GP value stuff like 30 resist to every elemental damage type :smallfurious:
Jack Mann - The RAW may say only the +1 actual enhancement applies, but I'll be nice and let some of the extras count to give them a sporting chance :smallamused:
MobiusKlein - I like the Artificer using their stuff, I'm so using it! Thanks! :smallbiggrin:
Atillargh - The rogue bit is good too, but let's add some Shadowdancer levels for max chance of escape!
Ogre - Mage's Disjunction might over-kill them, but I was thinking of a modified version just for the offending items.
It does have to be done once in a while. Sometimes they can get stuff that breaks any reasonable CR and it's either nuke the item, or enhance the monsters (which is more work for me). So here is my revised thought trying to encompass all of the suggestions over the course of a game night...
They are in a dungeon currently and have encountered many goblinoids and lizard-types (with character levels hehe). So there will be a large open room with an NPC under heavy protection spells to porevent his premature demise. The party is Chaotic-Neutral or in better terms, Chaotic-Stupid. The NPC, maybe something similar to the Giant's little Kobold Oracle guy can give them a premonition of great troubles ahead unless a worthy sacrifice is made. He can drop hints on the main offending items and have a donation coffer, which will have a Sphere of Annihilation at the bottom :smallbiggrin: There will be 2 doors exiting the room, but only one open that leads to the monsters, traps, and/or rogues to get the items the hard way, or a better path without further loss if they suck it up and willingly give the stuff up. Rewards will be greater if they do! :smallcool:

[Mewtarthio]

They are in a dungeon currently and have encountered many goblinoids and lizard-types (with character levels hehe). So there will be a large open room with an NPC under heavy protection spells to porevent his premature demise. The party is Chaotic-Neutral or in better terms, Chaotic-Stupid. The NPC, maybe something similar to the Giant's little Kobold Oracle guy can give them a premonition of great troubles ahead unless a worthy sacrifice is made. He can drop hints on the main offending items and have a donation coffer, which will have a Sphere of Annihilation at the bottom :smallbiggrin: There will be 2 doors exiting the room, but only one open that leads to the monsters, traps, and/or rogues to get the items the hard way, or a better path without further loss if they suck it up and willingly give the stuff up. Rewards will be greater if they do! :smallcool:

Solution: Your players will immediately begin making intelligence checks to move the sphere into the doors (and the Oracle).

Preemption: Give the Oracle the Talisman of the Sphere and a high Intelligence score.

Problem: Your players will kill the Oracle and take the Talisman and the Sphere.

Vengeful Suggestion: Have a highly intelligent Rogue steal the Talisman as the party sleeps and drive it into their unconscious forms, killing them with no hope of resurrection.

Result: Your players feel betrayed, as though you have something against them. They leave you alone at your table with no one to play with.

Analysis: This course of action appears most unwise. You may wish to replace the Sphere of Annihilation with something more friendly, such as a Plane Shift that gets triggered once a sufficient sacrifice is placed on the altar (assume the items forgo their saves, being willing sacrifices).

[Seffbasilisk]

Or a bag of devouring.

[Hario]

Ok you set up a room where there are traps everywhere equal to their challenge rating, you have some really powerful item on the far corner of the room, one problem the item is trapped with the spell Mage's Disjunction a 9th level spell, you set that as a trap, and any normal party rogue won't even be able to find it much less disable it, problem solved! ;P