On the origin of phrases:

[bloodshed343]

I'm curious as to where the following phrases came from:

Min/max
Munchkin
Bag o' rats
X-cheese
Murderhobo

That is all.

[Madfellow]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

There you go.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'm curious as to where the following phrases came from:

Min/max
Munchkin
Bag o' rats
X-cheese
Murderhobo

That is all.

First, this topic would be better on Roleplaying Games, so expect it to be changed.

From what I can recall:

Min-max refers to "minimizing penallties, maximizing benefits". Its source is point-based character creation systems (such as GURPS, or any game from the World of Darkness) that has a way to gain extra points from "disadvantages". A "min-maxer" would specialize in one or two things, cover for any perceived weakness, and then choose disadvantages that are so minor or inconsequential that they may never appear, to get the extra points for the build.
Bag o' rats...the only thing that comes to mind is any power that depends on consuming life-force. The 3.5 edition of D&D had a spell called Consumptive Energy Field, which made the caster more powerful each time a creature was killed in the area. Get a bag of rats, kill them all, and get the bonuses from it. May also come from the Bag of Tricks and how it was used for trap-busting purposes.
Cheese probably emerges from the pungent spell of some cheeses. A particularly strong and complex cheese tends to stink, and a build that's particularly strong and game-breaking is likewise "stinky".
Murderhobo is an euphemism for adventurers that prefer dungeon delving. They kill everything on their way (the "murder" part) and often sleep in dungeons, without taking care of necessities (the "hobo" part).


Munchkin is the one I don't recall, but I believe it has to deal with references to The Wizard of Oz and how ridiculous were the Munchkins. Either that, or a term coming from the French. I recall having seen the "etymology" (if it can be said such) of the term in a site, but I don't recall exactly where.

[Totema]

AFAIK "cheese" was named because, compared to the "meat" of a class, it's very good but also (supposed to be) very limited. When something is cheesy it's because there's too much of it compared to the meat.

[bloodshed343]

To be clear: I know what these phrases mean, but I was hoping a wise old grognard could tell me why we use them. And big thanks to the above poster.

[MaxWilson]

Beware of folk etymology, it is unreliable.

[Yagyujubei]

the only one I know of; and I'm sure of it, is cheesy because it's super obvious.

there's no deep meaning behind it, the word cheesy literally refers to something that is cheap or inauthentic, And people started using it for BS or "cheap" strategies in competitive games like Starcraft by calling it cheese.

[Rhiarion]

I thought "Bag of Rats" referred to 3.x "player creativity" where a player with the feats Whirlwind attack and Great Cleave would abuse RAW.

from http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Bag_of_rats

The original is a fighter carrying around a bag of rats, with the purpose of throwing them at an enemy, then using Whirlwind Attack to attack them all in one round, and Great Cleave to get a free hit at the actual enemy for each rat killed.

[jaydubs]

Wikipedia has an entry on munchkin, though I can't attest to how accurate it is or isn't. The relevant part:

"The term was applied originally to young gamers by older players,[1] presumably because the connotation of being short and ridiculous (like the Munchkins in the book and film The Wizard of Oz) made it an apt label for the childish gamers it was applied to. However, before long it came to refer to anyone who engaged in a juvenile gaming style no matter their height, age or experience."

[Slipperychicken]

I've heard the term "cheese" was borrowed from video game exploits achievable in normal play(such as starcraft zerg players using a specific combination of moves to exceed the unit cap). Such practices were collectively referred to as "cheesing" for a time.

I personally used the word because it seemed to capture the spirit of it. It sounds like "cheating" enough, but technically isn't.

[Blacky the Blackball]

"Cheesy" - meaning lame, naff, inferior, tacky, corny, or any of a number of other synonyms has been in recorded use since the 19th century.

The word was originally nothing to do with its fermented milk homonym and was derived from "Chiz" (a Hindi word). It was added to English in the days of the British Empire, along with other Hindi/Urdu words such as Pajamas, Bandanna, Shampoo, Pundit, Thug, and so on.

[Greylind]

I've heard the term "cheese" was borrowed from video game exploits achievable in normal play(such as starcraft zerg players using a specific combination of moves to exceed the unit cap). Such practices were collectively referred to as "cheesing" for a time.

I personally used the word because it seemed to capture the spirit of it. It sounds like "cheating" enough, but technically isn't.

Uh, no. Tabletop games and exploits have been around, and referred to as "cheese", since video games were either in an arcade or Pong.

[ti'esar]

Personally, I don't think I've ever heard "bag o' rats" before.

[Edge of Dreams]

I've seen "bag of rats" used in several contexts, all of which are generally based on abusing large numbers of weak, easily killed enemies that can be carried around with you. The Great Cleave/Whirlwind combo is one example. Another is with Frenzied Berserker builds who can't stop killing until their rage wears off - throw a bag of rats at them and run away, so they'll sit there killing rats and not you for the remaining X rounds of combat. I'm sure there's gotta be another combo out there involving getting hit points or some other such bonus per enemy killed, via some necromantic class feature or spell.

[Yoroichi]

Well, i first encountered cheese in my days of online war3.

I am not sure where the term derives from but it was used like this.

If you used a strategy that was lame and abusive ( like using towers for offence and spamming multiple towers, while they were intended to defend your base), and stuff that did not follow standard play, you were considered to be cheesing.

I remember a guy on ladder called Cheese abuser or something like that

[pwykersotz]

Personally, I don't think I've ever heard "bag o' rats" before.

I believe on this sub-forum we've coined "bag of kittens" instead. :smallbiggrin: