Can you polymorph into named creatures?

[RoboEmperor]

This includes both polymorph and PaO.

So like you know this 15hd goblin. Can you now polymorph into a 15hd goblin?

So like, you saw the general of an opposing army. Can you like PaO a pebble into the general and then extract information out of him like his plans of action via charm spells and whatnot?

You have a fanatic follower, and you need a suicide mission. Can you PaO a rock into that fanatic follower and have it do the suicide mission so you spare your follower of death?

edit: How about golems? You make a stone golem, and you want to PaO clones of it. The stone golem is technically "named", but it's still just a generic creature you created, so wouldn't PaOing that golem make it obey you instead of standing mindlessly still? Or do you have to also invest in a rod of construct control?

[Ion]

Polymorph Any Object, functions like Polymorph which functions like Alter Self which gives a +10 bonus to disguise yourself as someone specific... so your stone would have a pretty good chance of being mistaken for the General.. but I don't think there is any reason to believe it would have a copy of the memories of any given creature.

[RoboEmperor]

Polymorph Any Object, functions like Polymorph which functions like Alter Self which gives a +10 bonus to disguise yourself as someone specific... so your stone would have a pretty good chance of being mistaken for the General.. but I don't think there is any reason to believe it would have a copy of the memories of any given creature.

Well, lets say you have a fanatic follower, and you need a suicide mission. What better way to accomplish the mission than PaOing stuff into your fanatic follower to suicide themselves?

But without memory stuff, then it'd just be an average human that looks like your follower.

[bulbaquil]

The SRD states that Polymorph transforms you into "another form of living creature." Key word here is "form" - you can change into the shape and obtain (some of) the mechanical capabilities of the general, but you don't actually become the general.

[atemu1234]

The SRD states that Polymorph transforms you into "another form of living creature." Key word here is "form" - you can change into the shape and obtain (some of) the mechanical capabilities of the general, but you don't actually become the general.

Except PAO explicitly grants you intelligence, too...

[RoboEmperor]

Except PAO explicitly grants you intelligence, too...

It also grants you wisdom AND charisma.

It doesn't change your memories and whatnot if you change yourself, but how bout a rock?

[Duke of Urrel]

It also grants you wisdom AND charisma.

It doesn't change your memories and whatnot if you change yourself, but how bout a rock?

Well, a rock has no memories. If you change a rock into a creature, then it becomes a creature with the equivalent of a terrible case of amnesia. It functions as a creature, but it has no idea where it was, who it was, or what it was doing before just a moment ago.

I agree with other commenters who say that despite the other awesome powers the Polymorph Any Object spell has, it does not and cannot grant you the memories of another creature. That's stretching the concept of "Intelligence" way too far. I'm pretty sure that in this context, "Intelligence" means only the ability score by that name. It doesn't mean "information gathered by means of espionage."

[RoboEmperor]

So the answer is "no"
You can polymorph an object to a creature that looks like a named creature, but you can't polymorph an object into a named creature.

Damn... there goes polymorphing an army of fanatic followers Q_Q

[ben-zayb]

You can try diplomancy...or chain Dominate

[RoboEmperor]

You can try diplomancy...or chain Dominate

Right! I keep forgetting PaO creatures don't have their SU and SLA. So a PaO'd construct doesn't have magic immunity therefore susceptible to dominate monster.

[atemu1234]

You can try diplomancy...or chain Dominate

Or MINDRAPE.

[Jack_Simth]

Right! I keep forgetting PaO creatures don't have their SU and SLA. So a PaO'd construct doesn't have magic immunity therefore susceptible to dominate monster.
If you're Polymorphing something into a golem, you don't need the Dominate - you just make sure you are in all ways the critter's creator (make the materials from Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron, cast the PoA yourself, maybe copy a golem that you actually built) and then the Combat section for the golem entry says they obey you.

[Inevitability]

Or MINDRAPE.

I swear I am going to read all threads, every single one on this forum, and count how many feature Mindrape.

If it's less than half, I will be disappointed.


Well, a rock has no memories. If you change a rock into a creature, then it becomes a creature with the equivalent of a terrible case of amnesia. It functions as a creature, but it has no idea where it was, who it was, or what it was doing before just a moment ago.

Sounds like a certain bowl of petunias I know... :smalltongue:

[RoboEmperor]

If you're Polymorphing something into a golem, you don't need the Dominate - you just make sure you are in all ways the critter's creator (make the materials from Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron, cast the PoA yourself, maybe copy a golem that you actually built) and then the Combat section for the golem entry says they obey you.

Golem's creator is the guy who binds the elemental spirit into the golem. You didn't do such a thing, and just like PaOing a creature doesn't put it under your control like simulacrum, arguably a PaO'd golem has no creator and is just a mindless being with no instruction.

I guess you could rule it your way, after all, you created the elemental spirit and golems have a specific clause about following its creator, like you said, but it could also be ruled my way, which means I can't shove this in the DM's face and claim its RAW XD. The "safest" way is just crafting yourself a rod of construct control (doesn't even need craft rod, only wondrous item) since that thing can be used infinitely, so it's basically the same thing.

[Red Fel]

Getting back to the original point, the bottom line is: You can't turn into a specific creature. These spells derive from Alter Self, which contains the language, "You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race." Average, not specific. So you can't turn things specifically into that one fanatical follower. Even if you could change things to be physically specific, you're not actually changing the target's mind, with the exception of the fact that PAO may increase or decrease its mental faculties (e.g. turning a man into a dog, or a rock into a man). You're not actually altering the underlying personality, assuming there was one to begin with; nothing in any of the spells suggests that you are. So even if you could turn a bunch of rocks into identical copies of your fanatical follower (which you can't), they won't actually be fanatical; they'll simply look like him and have the same Int score.
I also agree that PAOing someone into a construct is not the same as creating the construct, and that absent some mind-meddling, you wouldn't be considered its creator.

[Jack_Simth]

I also agree that PAOing someone into a construct is not the same as creating the construct, and that absent some mind-meddling, you wouldn't be considered its creator.

Oh, no. You don't turn a person into a Golem.

You cast Wall of Stone a few times, fold it over itself, to make a big chunk of rock (Large sized).
You cast Stone Shape to detach it from the ground so it's a separate object.
You cast Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a copy of a Stone Golem you constructed at some point. Kingdom (Mineral), Class (Stone), Size (Large), Int (-) = Permanent with room to spare.

You created the material it is made out of.
You shaped it.
You animated it.
It is a copy of a Golem for which you were the creator.

In what sense are you *not* the creator?

[RoboEmperor]

Oh, no. You don't turn a person into a Golem.

You cast Wall of Stone a few times, fold it over itself, to make a big chunk of rock (Large sized).
You cast Stone Shape to detach it from the ground so it's a separate object.
You cast Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a copy of a Stone Golem you constructed at some point. Kingdom (Mineral), Class (Stone), Size (Large), Int (-) = Permanent with room to spare.

You created the material it is made out of.
You shaped it.
You animated it.
It is a copy of a Golem for which you were the creator.

In what sense are you *not* the creator?

You didn't create the golem. You polymorphed stone into a golem. That's the difference. POLYMORPH, not CREATE. It's as if you cast the spell Polymorph on the rock and turned it into a troll. You didn't create the troll, you just polymorphed a rock into it. At least that's how a real stickler of a DM would say if he didn't want you doing it.

[Jack_Simth]

You didn't create the golem. You polymorphed stone into a golem. That's the difference. POLYMORPH, not CREATE. It's as if you cast the spell Polymorph on the rock and turned it into a troll. You didn't create the troll, you just polymorphed a rock into it. At least that's how a real stickler of a DM would say if he didn't want you doing it.
You didn't create the golem. You bound an elemental spirit to it. You didn't create it's body. You carved it from rock. At least that's how a real stickler of a DM would say if he didn't want you doing it he wanted your golem to kill you for daring to use your class features.

Seriously, the DM can always make stuff up to mess with you. It doesn't matter.

Seriously now. In what sense are you not the creator when you're the one that created the raw materials, shaped them into their current form, and produced the template from which it was shaped?

[RoboEmperor]

You didn't create the golem. You bound an elemental spirit to it. You didn't create it's body. You carved it from rock. At least that's how a real stickler of a DM would say if he didn't want you doing it he wanted your golem to kill you for daring to use your class features.

Seriously, the DM can always make stuff up to mess with you. It doesn't matter.

Seriously now. In what sense are you not the creator when you're the one that created the raw materials, shaped them into their current form, and produced the template from which it was shaped?

From srd

The process of creating the golem binds the unwilling spirit to the artificial body and subjects it to the will of the golem’s creator.


Completing the golem’s creation drains the appropriate XP from the creator and requires casting any spells on the final day.

The creator must cast the spells personally, but they can come from outside sources, such as scrolls.

From this, yeah you used PaO to create an unwilling spirit that is bound to the golem body, but there's nothing that binds it to you. You didn't pay the XP, you didn't cast the spells personally at the end, you just polymorphed a rock into A golem, not YOUR golem.

That's why I was thinking about PaOing named creatures. If you PaO a rock into YOUR GOLEM, then you can make as many as you want, but it's an AVERAGE golem, not your golem. You could say the average golem is mindless and stands still, or you could say the average golem kills everything in sight. That's up to the DM, but I just don't think an average golem will consider you its creator. It's an unwilling spirit, not a servant spirit searching for a master to serve. I wish there was more fluff to clarify this, but as far as anyone I know would say, average member of the golem race is not bound to you.

Rod of Construct Control effectively lets you be its master, and it requires dominate monster, so likewise, being its master means you have a permanent dominate monster on the golem. But you didn't do anything to establish this, you just polymorphed a rock into a golem, so yeah, you created it, but you're not its creator.

I personally however, would enjoy playing your games because I like PaOing golems before I hit level 9 spells :)

[Duke of Urrel]

I don't believe we can make the case that you can change a non-living object into a golem using the Polymorph Any Object spell, because I don't believe the RAW allow us to polymorph anything into a golem using any spell except for the Shapechange spell.

According to its own description in the Player's Handbook v. 3.5 (2008), page 263, the Polymorph Any Object spell "functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another." This explicitly adds objects both to the list of allowable subjects of the Polymorph Any Object spell and to the list of forms that a subject polymorphed by this spell may take, it but does not explicitly add Constructs, Elementals, Outsiders, Undead, or incorporeal creatures to the list of forms that this subject may take. You can argue that it somehow does so implicitly (for example by omitting the word "living"), but I think this argument is weak.

You can of course use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change a creature of the Construct or Undead type into any creature of any type that is available to the Polymorph spell (because creatures of these two quasi-living types are immune only to magical effects requiring Fortitude saves that can not affect objects), but you can't use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change any creature into a Construct, an Undead, or any other creature type that is not available to the Polymorph spell.

[Jack_Simth]

I don't believe we can make the case that you can change a non-living object into a golem using the Polymorph Any Object spell, because I don't believe the RAW allow us to polymorph anything into a golem using any spell except for the Shapechange spell.

According to its own description in the Player's Handbook v. 3.5 (2008), page 263, the Polymorph Any Object spell "functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another." This explicitly adds objects both to the list of allowable subjects of the Polymorph Any Object spell and to the list of forms that a subject polymorphed by this spell may take, it but does not explicitly add Constructs, Elementals, Outsiders, Undead, or incorporeal creatures to the list of forms that this subject may take. You can argue that it somehow does so implicitly (for example by omitting the word "living"), but I think this argument is weak.

You can of course use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change a creature of the Construct or Undead type into any creature of any type that is available to the Polymorph spell (because creatures of these two quasi-living types are immune only to magical effects requiring Fortitude saves that can not affect objects), but you can't use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change any creature into a Construct, an Undead, or any other creature type that is not available to the Polymorph spell.
Oh, right. You may need to open with an Animate Objects spell (like, say, a Cleric-16 with the Trickery domain could do) so that the slab of stone is a construct under your control so as to allow yourself to use the "same type as the subject" option from Polymorph at the time of casting.


From this, yeah you used PaO to create an unwilling spirit that is bound to the golem body, but there's nothing that binds it to you. You didn't pay the XP, you didn't cast the spells personally at the end, you just polymorphed a rock into A golem, not YOUR golem.
You made it in all senses of the word, from the materials on up. You created the materials, you shaped the materials, you animated the materials. The XP cost was 0 (it's a possible component for spells, which this one doesn't have), which you paid. You cast the spells at the end. Is it the expected path? No. But you are in all senses the creator of that golem.

If you carve a chunk of stone into a statue, you're the one that created that statue, and pretty much nobody will say you didn't without lying.

[Synar]

Oh, right. You may need to open with an Animate Objects spell (like, say, a Cleric-16 with the Trickery domain could do) so that the slab of stone is a construct under your control so as to allow yourself to use the "same type as the subject" option from Polymorph at the time of casting.

You made it in all senses of the word, from the materials on up. You created the materials, you shaped the materials, you animated the materials. The XP cost was 0 (it's a possible component for spells, which this one doesn't have), which you paid. You cast the spells at the end. Is it the expected path? No. But you are in all senses the creator of that golem.

If you carve a chunk of stone into a statue, you're the one that created that statue, and pretty much nobody will say you didn't without lying.


Yes, you did create the golem, but you did not create it.
Like you did create it, but only semantically.
Exactly like casting resurection by casting on a corpse a scroll with "Resurection" written on it does not the corpse reanimate, even if it is explicitly stated that casting resurection will bring someone back from the dead.*
I.e., there is more than just the name to the process : there is the actual process. For the later, actually casting the spell. For the former, following the golem creation steps, including body sculpting, exact spellcasting, and payment of XP costs.


TL,DR : Magic is not based on semantics.


*Or like rising a level will not get you to level up.

[RoboEmperor]

You made it in all senses of the word, from the materials on up. You created the materials, you shaped the materials, you animated the materials. The XP cost was 0 (it's a possible component for spells, which this one doesn't have), which you paid. You cast the spells at the end. Is it the expected path? No. But you are in all senses the creator of that golem.

If you carve a chunk of stone into a statue, you're the one that created that statue, and pretty much nobody will say you didn't without lying.

I'm not saying you didn't make it, i'm saying you didn't BIND it.
The UNWILLING SPIRIT is not a submissive spirit who is searching for a master. If its master dies it doesn't look for a new master.

Creating the golem LEGITLY will BIND the spirit to you via the ENCHANTING RITUAL.
PaO HAS NO RITUAL so the spirit is NOT BOUND TO YOU.

If golems are entities who cannot survive without a master, sure your logic works because you created it just like how you created a dragon with PaO, but that's not the case, so you create an unbound golem.

If you use animate objects however, things get a bit more complex. The PaOed golem will be 100% under your control, but after animate objects duration expires, the golem loses its programming and it remains motionless. Arguably this is the end because PaO did not create an unwilling spirit but instead used the sentience from the animated object and merely changed the physical stats and shape of the animated object. So instead of using a golem brain, you install a animated brain, but when the animated brain gets fried, you got no other brain, so the golem is motionless.

PaO can create constructs and undead. It says it's like polymorph except it changes an OBJECT or CREATURE into ANOTHER. That means you can turn a creature (manticore) into an object (shrew), and constructs and undead are objects with hit die. Incorporeal and gaseous creatures are debatable.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm not saying you didn't make it, i'm saying you didn't BIND it.
The UNWILLING SPIRIT is not a submissive spirit who is searching for a master. If its master dies it doesn't look for a new master.
No. As a mindless creature it follows the last order it was given to the best of it's ability, even if that order no longer applies (except where the specific creature description says otherwise, such as a Clay or Flesh golem going berserk). If the last order was "Obey this guy", then it obeys that guy. If the last order was "Kill everything that enters this room", then it tries to kill everything that enters that room.


Creating the golem LEGITLY will BIND the spirit to you via the ENCHANTING RITUAL.
PaO HAS NO RITUAL so the spirit is NOT BOUND TO YOU.

Other than the designation in the Combat section that tells you exactly how a golem interacts with it's creator. Which is, you know, mindless obedience. The rules as written are quite clear on that. Sure, they're cheap... but they're also cheap. One Dispel Magic and half of your 'army' in the area is back to being chunks of wall. They can't do diddly to someone in an Antimagic Field. They don't have Damage Reduction or Magic Immunity (Polymorph any Object does not grant Ex special abilities). They're handy for cheap labor and such, but at the levels of play we're talking about (15th+ due to the 8th level spell), they're cannon fodder. Anything that'd be a meaningful threat to a mage is going to eat them for breakfast, pretty much.

Also: Why are you 'shouting'? Putting things in all caps does not generally make something more persuasive. Sure, this may be above the acceptable optimization level of your table, and something your DM won't let you get away with, but it is the rules as written.

Yes, you did create the golem, but you did not create it.
Like you did create it, but only semantically.
Exactly like casting resurection by casting on a corpse a scroll with "Resurection" written on it does not the corpse reanimate, even if it is explicitly stated that casting resurection will bring someone back from the dead.*
I.e., there is more than just the name to the process : there is the actual process. For the later, actually casting the spell. For the former, following the golem creation steps, including body sculpting, exact spellcasting, and payment of XP costs.


TL,DR : Magic is not based on semantics.


*Or like rising a level will not get you to level up.
This is hardly semantics on the level of using the word "cast" in the meaning of "throw". You're using a spell that explicitly makes matter. You're using a spell that explicitly turns an object into a creature of your choosing within certain limits. The description of that creature says it follows the orders of whoever created it. This is not exactly a stretch. I seriously do not get your posit... oh, I see. Your signature: You're using black text. You're being sarcastic. Got it. Sorry for the confusion, and good to know you actually agree.

[RoboEmperor]

Other than the designation in the Combat section that tells you exactly how a golem interacts with it's creator. Which is, you know, mindless obedience. The rules as written are quite clear on that. Sure, they're cheap... but they're also cheap. One Dispel Magic and half of your 'army' in the area is back to being chunks of wall. They can't do diddly to someone in an Antimagic Field. They don't have Damage Reduction or Magic Immunity (Polymorph any Object does not grant Ex special abilities). They're handy for cheap labor and such, but at the levels of play we're talking about (15th+ due to the 8th level spell), they're cannon fodder. Anything that'd be a meaningful threat to a mage is going to eat them for breakfast, pretty much.

It's not shouting, it's putting emphasis and I'm too lazy to highlight and press bold and deal with all the square brackets.

I'm not saying the PaO'd golems are unbalanced. They're trash and only useful for out-of-combat applications, like laying siege to NPC towns, who are all level 1 commoners, or guarding stuff. My DM allowed this and we played 1 session with this and it all worked ok, but then he noticed the fluff issue and that's why I posted this topic.

Yes, you can command your golem as a free action, except it's not your golem. It's an average golem. You did not bind him to you.

Maybe you'll understand if you look at shield guardians.


When it is fashioned, a shield guardian is keyed to a particular magical amulet. Henceforth, it regards the wearer of that amulet to be its master, protecting and following that individual everywhere (unless specifically commanded not to do so).

So to summarize:
1. During creation, shield guardian is keyed to the amulet. To compare golems, during the golem's creation the golem is keyed to you, so it is forever bound to you and obeys you.
2. A shield guardian with no previous instruction and has no amulet cannot ever be commanded again.
3. You can't make a new amulet and key it to the shield guardian since its already finished, so arguably, you can only set the master during creation.

So lets look at PaO. When you PaO something into a golem, do you key/bind it to you? No. Enchanting process is very complex and long, so when you're creating the golem legitly, you can set yourself as the creator. Now lets look at PaO. You cast a spell. The End. So you make an average golem with PaO, and thats it. It's a finished golem. So how do you set yourself as the master to a finished golem? You can't key yourself to the golem during creation because you didn't create it. You just cast a spell and voila, a golem appeared.

The only way your logic works is if a masterless golem seeks a new master, which it doesn't.

The simple solution is just crafting a rod of construct control: Caster Level: 17th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, dominate monster; Market Price: 68,850 gp.

Get craft wondrous item, planar bind a formian task master and make it provide dominate monster for you. Since you can only cast PaO at level 15+, just get +2 to your caster level. I like getting a couple points in UMD + Moment of Prescience and use bead of karma for a +4. There. At level 15 you can get a rod of construct control. Make the golem obey your every instruction, and now you can do all of your PaO golem shenanigans like before. And you can use this rod an infinite number of times per day. This is what I'm doing.

You're not the creator. The spell creates a finished masterless golem, and there is nothing you can do to set yourself as its master.

Oh and golems aren't entirely mindless. If you attack them they will kill you.

[Jack_Simth]

It's not shouting, it's putting emphasis and I'm too lazy to highlight and press bold and deal with all the square brackets.

I'm not saying the PaO'd golems are unbalanced. They're trash and only useful for out-of-combat applications, like laying siege to NPC towns, who are all level 1 commoners, or guarding stuff. My DM allowed this and we played 1 session with this and it all worked ok, but then he noticed the fluff issue and that's why I posted this topic.

Yes, you can command your golem as a free action, except it's not your golem. It's an average golem. You did not bind him to you.

Fortunately, the control text of golems doesn't say anything about the binder, just the creator. The materials for the creature did not exist before you made them. The shape of the materials was set by your actions. One of the spells involved using explicitly turns it into a creature of your choosing. You required no outside help. You are in all ways it's creator. The description says it obeys it's creator. It's pretty straightforward, really.


Maybe you'll understand if you look at shield guardians.

Oh, I understand your position just fine. You're saying some nebulous ritual and item crafting are required to do it 'right' and that anything other than the expected Craft Construct method is not really 'legit'. I'm just very thoroughly convinced that you're not correct, and none of your arguments are persuasive for me. The description of an unrelated creature in a different section doesn't exactly strike me as relevant.

But I'm not your DM, so it doesn't matter. You've already answered your own question for your own purposes to your own satisfaction, and nothing I say will persuade you (one never argues to convince the person one argues with - it's pointless, almost nobody is convinced by rational argument; one argues for the amusement value inherent in the intellectual exercise, or to convince a third party).



Oh and golems aren't entirely mindless. If you attack them they will kill you.They're called Mindless in their description. They have Int -, which is clearly defined in game terms. Yes, they still act and react to their environment... so does an amoeba. So does an ant. So does a spider. So does a scorpion. Those are also mindless as far as D&D is concerned.

[RoboEmperor]

Fair enough, there isn't fluff that specifies how exactly the master is set on the golem so we can't get past this. Doesn't matter though, fact is, we can make our own army of constructs at level 15. You're the one who told me this in my other thread "how to abuse polymorph any object?" right? I gotta thank you for that :)

[Ashtagon]

This includes both polymorph and PaO.

So like you know this 15hd goblin. Can you now polymorph into a 15hd goblin?

So like, you saw the general of an opposing army. Can you like PaO a pebble into the general and then extract information out of him like his plans of action via charm spells and whatnot?

You have a fanatic follower, and you need a suicide mission. Can you PaO a rock into that fanatic follower and have it do the suicide mission so you spare your follower of death?

edit: How about golems? You make a stone golem, and you want to PaO clones of it. The stone golem is technically "named", but it's still just a generic creature you created, so wouldn't PaOing that golem make it obey you instead of standing mindlessly still? Or do you have to also invest in a rod of construct control?

No, you can't pao into a 15 HD goblin, because the rules reference an ordinary member of the species, not a levelled or templated member.

You could pao something into a likeness of the enemy general. The resulting creature would have the mental stats of an ordinary unlevelled member of that species, but no knowledge that a specific member of that species would have (so no extracting information that only the general would know). Their memories would be essentially what they knew before, albeit interpreted in the light of a possibly higher Intelligence score. I'd add to what they knew before a basic knowledge of how their new body "works" for basic body functions.

You could pao a rock into a likeness of your fanatic follower, but the polymorped rock would retain its original personality (most likely "I think I'll just sit here. I like sitting here. Maybe I'll go sit there for a while. Hmm. I'm hungry. I should probably figure out where to get something to eat.") At best he would have the attitudes of an ordinary member of his (new) species.

[Synar]

No. As a mindless creature it follows the last order it was given to the best of it's ability, even if that order no longer applies (except where the specific creature description says otherwise, such as a Clay or Flesh golem going berserk). If the last order was "Obey this guy", then it obeys that guy. If the last order was "Kill everything that enters this room", then it tries to kill everything that enters that room.

Other than the designation in the Combat section that tells you exactly how a golem interacts with it's creator. Which is, you know, mindless obedience. The rules as written are quite clear on that. Sure, they're cheap... but they're also cheap. One Dispel Magic and half of your 'army' in the area is back to being chunks of wall. They can't do diddly to someone in an Antimagic Field. They don't have Damage Reduction or Magic Immunity (Polymorph any Object does not grant Ex special abilities). They're handy for cheap labor and such, but at the levels of play we're talking about (15th+ due to the 8th level spell), they're cannon fodder. Anything that'd be a meaningful threat to a mage is going to eat them for breakfast, pretty much.

Also: Why are you 'shouting'? Putting things in all caps does not generally make something more persuasive. Sure, this may be above the acceptable optimization level of your table, and something your DM won't let you get away with, but it is the rules as written.

This is hardly semantics on the level of using the word "cast" in the meaning of "throw". You're using a spell that explicitly makes matter. You're using a spell that explicitly turns an object into a creature of your choosing within certain limits. The description of that creature says it follows the orders of whoever created it. This is not exactly a stretch. I seriously do not get your posit... oh, I see. Your signature: You're using black text. You're being sarcastic. Got it. Sorry for the confusion, and good to know you actually agree.

Well actually you will notice my signature is written in black.




(Seriously, even if it was a bit sarcastic, and even if the RaW may not be very clear on the matter, I don't think PaOing a golem should work as you think it should, if only for balance reasons. Oh, and fluff reasons. Especially fluff reasons.)



(Oh, and this is unrelated, I would like to comment on your position on debating. I would agree with you, but I actually think that even if most people may not admit it during the debate, their opinion may be shaken by the debate causing them to reconsider those once the debate, incorporating their adversaries' ideas and becoming convinced that those ideas were theirs all along.
And if openly convincing someone in an opinion debate is hard, when more pragmatic issues are at hand, people being convinced by rational arguments happen all the time.)