Vampire PCs necessarily turn Lawfull Evil

[MrUberGr]

This weekend, during our session, I got turned into a full vamp. It was a deal a vampire was forced to make. Basically it goes like this:

This vampire was working with an archmage to corrupt and take over a small kingdom. As proper heroic PCs, we were trying to stop them. After killing most of the vampire spawns, we made way to his lair. Due to the fact that not everyone was there we went 2 vs 2 against to full Vamps. We got to kill the lady vamp, but I was K.O'd. The other PC, who was charmed, was basically forced into a deal, so I didn't die and become a full vamp. The vampire lord wasn't sure if he'd beat the other PC, and he couldn't take the chance to loose all the work, (and his life), so he made -and kept the deal.

TL;DR A vampire's life was at risk, so he offered to get me back from death in return from his life.

Now the stat bonuses are all nice and great. I just went from 8 to 18 strength ^^ . Legendary resistance, 20hp regeneration etc etc. The problem is with the alignement. Prior to the happening I'd be more like chaotic good/neutral. Also we have a full blown-lawfull good-Pelor worshipping-Paladin in our party. He was one of the absent players, so it will be a surprise to him! The issue here, is whether it's actually necessary to turn Lawful Evil, acting as the MM says, being greedy and selfish. The way I've thought of playing this out is using vampirism as a "tool" to avenge all the people and the nature that was killed and then somehow have it reverted. Would this not be possible?

[pwykersotz]

Anything is possible, but I find that it tends to subvert the entire point of the creature if you are just another player character with a few new 'tendencies'.

My preferred method of dealing with it is to be convinced from an in-character view that you are the same person. Doing the same things for the same reasons. However, as a player, twist the actions to be greedy, cruel, and subversive. Limit hindering the party, of course, unless you want to be cured/purified with a quickness. But convince yourself that the ill in town really needed to die to stop their suffering, and draining them helped you in the process, so why not? And naturally draining blood from the ill wasn't all that tasty, so the old man's daughter was a good followup. It was really for her own good, she loved her father too much to live without him.

My 2cp

[Giant2005]

Being Lawful Evil doesn't mean you have to be a prick. You just aren't particularly empathetic or compassionate.
You can even quite willingly do good things as long as they are self-serving or you have some sort of reason beyond altruism.

[pwykersotz]

Being Lawful Evil doesn't mean you have to be a prick. You just aren't particularly empathetic or compassionate.
You can even quite willingly do good things as long as they are self-serving or you have some sort of reason beyond altruism.

Eh...under some interpretations. If it's just going to be watered down like that though, I personally prefer it to be handwaved entirely. Basically, turn it on it's head and if you agree with it, then your universe is probably morally gray (no problem with that!) and the alignment thing shouldn't be a factor.


Being Lawful Good doesn't mean you have to be a saint. You just aren't particularly antipathetic or compromising.
You can even quite willingly do evil things as long as they aren't self-serving or you have some sort of reason beyond causing suffering.

(Yay, another alignment thread! It's been awhile!)

[Sartharina]

This weekend, during our session, I got turned into a full vamp. It was a deal a vampire was forced to make. Basically it goes like this:

This vampire was working with an archmage to corrupt and take over a small kingdom. As proper heroic PCs, we were trying to stop them. After killing most of the vampire spawns, we made way to his lair. Due to the fact that not everyone was there we went 2 vs 2 against to full Vamps. We got to kill the lady vamp, but I was K.O'd. The other PC, who was charmed, was basically forced into a deal, so I didn't die and become a full vamp. The vampire lord wasn't sure if he'd beat the other PC, and he couldn't take the chance to loose all the work, (and his life), so he made -and kept the deal.

TL;DR A vampire's life was at risk, so he offered to get me back from death in return from his life.

Now the stat bonuses are all nice and great. I just went from 8 to 18 strength ^^ . Legendary resistance, 20hp regeneration etc etc. The problem is with the alignement. Prior to the happening I'd be more like chaotic good/neutral. Also we have a full blown-lawfull good-Pelor worshipping-Paladin in our party. He was one of the absent players, so it will be a surprise to him! The issue here, is whether it's actually necessary to turn Lawful Evil, acting as the MM says, being greedy and selfish. The way I've thought of playing this out is using vampirism as a "tool" to avenge all the people and the nature that was killed and then somehow have it reverted. Would this not be possible?
You got a very, very raw deal. You died. The character you played and loved is dead and gone (Well, his soul is still trapped in his body) - but what remains is a malevolent mockery of everything he stood for in life. The vampire you 'defeated' is laughing at your foolishness for accepting his deal. Also, you're likely a thrall to your creator.

Yes, you have to be Evil. The character you played is dead. You are now a complete monster of the night.

Death is 100% preferrable to Undeadification for anyone who's not Evil (Assuming you care about yourself/your soul to any degree)

The ability to turn the most altruistic of saints into a hateful, malevolent predator with a bite is part of what makes vampires horrific.

[MrUberGr]

Well, first of all, I had no say in the deal. It was completely up to the other PC, since at the time I was dead. Secondly, I actually drank from the creator's blood so I'm free. This is why we're considering the possibility of me not being evil. I was a thrall for 2 days. If that never happened, then yep the character would've been as good as gone.

On the vampire template, it states: "the vampirism is reversed with a wish spell or the character is killed and brought back to life." So basically, I have to be a dead vampire, for someone to be able to cast a "Raise Dead" on me?



My preferred method of dealing with it is to be convinced from an in-character view that you are the same person. Doing the same things for the same reasons. However, as a player, twist the actions to be greedy, cruel, and subversive. Limit hindering the party, of course, unless you want to be cured/purified with a quickness. But convince yourself that the ill in town really needed to die to stop their suffering, and draining them helped you in the process, so why not? And naturally draining blood from the ill wasn't all that tasty, so the old man's daughter was a good followup. It was really for her own good, she loved her father too much to live without him.


This is pretty much what the DM is suggesting.

[Sartharina]

Well, first of all, I had no say in the deal. It was completely up to the other PC, since at the time I was dead. Secondly, I actually drank from the creator's blood so I'm free. If that never happened, then yep the character would've been as good as gone.Your friend screwed your original character over, leaving you with a monstrous villain to play. Now it's your duty to remind him that Malevolent Undead (And demons) fall under the "Supernaturally and irredeemably evil by nature" clause of alignment and "Undead/Vampires are Bad News". However... you may wish to pass the new villain off to the DM after the betrayal is revealed to avoid Player-vs.-Player. Or, have becoming Non-Evil/Rediscovering your humanity be a new adventure/plot development.


On the vampire template, it states: "the vampirism is reversed with a wish spell or the character is killed and brought back to life." So basically, I have to be a dead vampire, for someone to be able to cast a "Raise Dead" on me?Yep.

[Daishain]

On the vampire template, it states: "the vampirism is reversed with a wish spell or the character is killed and brought back to life." So basically, I have to be a dead vampire, for someone to be able to cast a "Raise Dead" on me?

Pretty much.

In any event, alignment is much less of a hard mechanic than it used to be. There are, as I understand it, two ways to deal with this.

-One interpretation has your actual soul either gone or trapped. Another... thing is now in control. However, this would mean that you the player are not in control either. Boring, lets move on.

-Your soul is still in control, but has a number of new impulses and needs. In other words, your character's motivations and ideals would be largely the same, but are being twisted by your undead nature. Chances are that this would lead to a gradual breakdown of who you used to be. Ten years from now there probably wouldn't be any real difference between your character and the stereotypical evil mastermind vampires are supposed to be. But in the time between now and then, you'd probably be something of an antihero, pursuing many of the same goals, but with much less regard for the methods used.

[Sartharina]

Pretty much.

In any event, alignment is much less of a hard mechanic than it used to be. There are, as I understand it, two ways to deal with this.

-One interpretation has your actual soul either gone or trapped. Another... thing is now in control. However, this would mean that you the player are not in control either. Boring, lets move on.[quote]This is far more interesting (Especially if you get to play the new you) than:

[quote]-Your soul is still in control, but has a number of new impulses and needs. In other words, your character's motivations and ideals would be largely the same, but are being twisted by your undead nature. Chances are that this would lead to a gradual breakdown of who you used to be. Ten years from now there probably wouldn't be any real difference between your character and the stereotypical evil mastermind vampires are supposed to be. But in the time between now and then, you'd probably be something of an antihero, pursuing many of the same goals, but with much less regard for the methods used.Just get some protection-from-sunlight-with-a-side-effect-of-sparkles, and you're good to go!

[Easy_Lee]

Under some interpretations and lore, undead have a strict hierarchy which must be upheld. So a ghoul cannot disobey a vampire's direct orders, and nor could a vampire disobey a demilich. That could be an interesting plot point no matter how special your character is.

There are other fun things you can do with a vampire. Maybe you have to feed on blood regularly or you lose control (to the DM). Maybe you feel compelled towarda selfish or cruel acts since you're evil, and simply can't resist the opportunity to be a jackass if it presents itself. Maybe you sparkle in the sunlight and everyone hates you.

Either way, I think getting your old body and alignment back ought to be a major plot thread for your character at least. There's a reason not everybody wants to be a vampire.

While you're a vampire, though, there's something you can do, and you won't get another chance. Run down the nearest public street yelling "I'm a vampire! I'm a vampire!" in your best Nicolas Cage impression.

[Daishain]

Pretty much.

In any event, alignment is much less of a hard mechanic than it used to be. There are, as I understand it, two ways to deal with this.

-One interpretation has your actual soul either gone or trapped. Another... thing is now in control. However, this would mean that you the player are not in control either. Boring, lets move on. This is far more interesting (Especially if you get to play the new you) than:

Just get some protection-from-sunlight-with-a-side-effect-of-sparkles, and you're good to go!
I said the former was boring because it offers no choice. The character is dead, and by all rights what's left of him should be controlled by the GM. Now, there's some interesting possibility in being in such a situation and requiring "rescue", but you as a player have jack all to do.

Now, playing as a different character, that is to say the lawful evil thing mentioned, is certainly a possibility. But your script and personality are already written, and the GM is fully within his rights to take control back if you deviate.

As for the latter, the things you reference are about as tormented as a dog on a vegetarian diet. not sympathetic, not interesting, and not at all what I meant.

[eastmabl]

Isn't this what the story arc for that webcomic that brings us here has been about?

You know, besides gnomish cuisine?

[MrUberGr]

Basically, what I'm thinking of is some sort of Blade situation - bad movie IMO, but good example. Part of them that fights against them etc. Or, Drizzt in a different sense. Dunno how I could do it reasonably though.



Just get some protection-from-sunlight-with-a-side-effect-of-sparkles, and you're good to go!

Now, how would I go about with this? We talked about being dressed up, head to toes, with a small eye slit, and use the mechanic for fighting in sunlight the drow has. Other than that there isn't something specific other than what Durkon has.

Ahh that mis-quote lead to mis-reading. Indeed, I could propose that to the DM. Could be fun to go covertly evil for some time. The problem is that a covertly evil PC had to be handed over to the DM since he met a turning point and was no longer reasonable for him to be good.


1- Under some interpretations and lore, undead have a strict hierarchy which must be upheld. So a ghoul cannot disobey a vampire's direct orders, and nor could a vampire disobey a demilich. That could be an interesting plot point no matter how special your character is.

2- Either way, I think getting your old body and alignment back ought to be a major plot thread for your character at least. There's a reason not everybody wants to be a vampire.

3- While you're a vampire, though, there's something you can do, and you won't get another chance. Run down the nearest public street yelling "I'm a vampire! I'm a vampire!" in your best Nicolas Cage impression.

1- Hm, never considered that. Guess it could be somewhat like that. However, it's the same as with gods. For example, the peasant follows the priest, etc etc, and the archbishop follows the word of Pelor. But, I don't believe in Pelor.

2- Already is!

3- Oh my gawd. I wasn't aware of this! Thanks for the abs training! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Safety Sword]

Isn't this what the story arc for that webcomic that brings us here has been about?

You know, besides gnomish cuisine?

The comic is actually about evil halflings. And don't you forget it. Or else, stabby, stabby death.

[Baptor]

This weekend, during our session, I got turned into a full vamp. It was a deal a vampire was forced to make. Basically it goes like this:

This vampire was working with an archmage to corrupt and take over a small kingdom. As proper heroic PCs, we were trying to stop them. After killing most of the vampire spawns, we made way to his lair. Due to the fact that not everyone was there we went 2 vs 2 against to full Vamps. We got to kill the lady vamp, but I was K.O'd. The other PC, who was charmed, was basically forced into a deal, so I didn't die and become a full vamp. The vampire lord wasn't sure if he'd beat the other PC, and he couldn't take the chance to loose all the work, (and his life), so he made -and kept the deal.

TL;DR A vampire's life was at risk, so he offered to get me back from death in return from his life.

Now the stat bonuses are all nice and great. I just went from 8 to 18 strength ^^ . Legendary resistance, 20hp regeneration etc etc. The problem is with the alignement. Prior to the happening I'd be more like chaotic good/neutral. Also we have a full blown-lawfull good-Pelor worshipping-Paladin in our party. He was one of the absent players, so it will be a surprise to him! The issue here, is whether it's actually necessary to turn Lawful Evil, acting as the MM says, being greedy and selfish. The way I've thought of playing this out is using vampirism as a "tool" to avenge all the people and the nature that was killed and then somehow have it reverted. Would this not be possible?

I had a recent campaign where someone was turned. Here's how we handled it.

The party had a goal, to stop a terrible curse that would put out the sun forever. During their struggle the mage was turned into a vampire. When he awoke as a vampire I told him basically that he was the same person but now losing himself to the monster within. His single-mindedness to complete the quest meant he'd keep working with the rest of the party until the campaign was complete but that A. he would have no moral restrictions keeping him from his goal and B. when the campaign was over he'd go off to do things vampires do and become a villain for some future game, should he survive that is.

He's loving it. Basically if someone gets in his way, that someone usually winds up dead. He charms people and convinces them to to terrible things as long as it furthers the goal of stopping the curse. Think Jack Bauer, but turned up to 11. He is also excited that when its all done he will leave a villain behind to torment future parties.

[Tenmujiin]

I had a recent campaign where someone was turned. Here's how we handled it.

The party had a goal, to stop a terrible curse that would put out the sun forever. During their struggle the mage was turned into a vampire. When he awoke as a vampire I told him basically that he was the same person but now losing himself to the monster within. His single-mindedness to complete the quest meant he'd keep working with the rest of the party until the campaign was complete but that A. he would have no moral restrictions keeping him from his goal and B. when the campaign was over he'd go off to do things vampires do and become a villain for some future game, should he survive that is.

He's loving it. Basically if someone gets in his way, that someone usually winds up dead. He charms people and convinces them to to terrible things as long as it furthers the goal of stopping the curse. Think Jack Bauer, but turned up to 11. He is also excited that when its all done he will leave a villain behind to torment future parties.

This is probably the easiest way to deal with it. The other option I see (beyond relinquishing control to the DM) is to do a Durkon and PRETEND that you are still the same person while pursuing your own goals.

[Sartharina]

I said the former was boring because it offers no choice. The character is dead, and by all rights what's left of him should be controlled by the GM. Now, there's some interesting possibility in being in such a situation and requiring "rescue", but you as a player have jack all to do.

Now, playing as a different character, that is to say the lawful evil thing mentioned, is certainly a possibility. But your script and personality are already written, and the GM is fully within his rights to take control back if you deviate.
The script and personality are NOT written, unless you believe players shouldn't have narrative control over their villains. The player knows his character best. If he's up for it, he's also best for playing as "His Character"-1. As for going for an Antihero Vampire... I don't like the 'descent into evil' version... instead, I prefer the 'rise from the ashes' version. He starts as a monster, doing villainous things behind the scenes... but he gradually starts becoming Good again (ish).

[Dalebert]

The script and personality are NOT written, unless you believe players shouldn't have narrative control over their villains. The player knows his character best. If he's up for it, he's also best for playing as "His Character"-1. As for going for an Antihero Vampire... I don't like the 'descent into evil' version... instead, I prefer the 'rise from the ashes' version. He starts as a monster, doing villainous things behind the scenes... but he gradually starts becoming Good again (ish).

Oh, I don't know. Both seem to work from a narrative POV. The gradual descent into villainy is classic.

[JoeJ]

The script and personality are NOT written, unless you believe players shouldn't have narrative control over their villains. The player knows his character best. If he's up for it, he's also best for playing as "His Character"-1. As for going for an Antihero Vampire... I don't like the 'descent into evil' version... instead, I prefer the 'rise from the ashes' version. He starts as a monster, doing villainous things behind the scenes... but he gradually starts becoming Good again (ish).

What if the vampire regains his soul because of a gypsy curse?

[Ghost Nappa]

What if the vampire regains his soul because of a gypsy curse?

Then you tempt them with happiness, love, and intercourse before ripping the soul away again.

[EvilAnagram]

Then you tempt them with happiness, love, and intercourse before ripping the soul away again.

Ha! Just rewatched that episode yesterday!

And it broke my heart again. ::frown:

[Yoroichi]

Anything is possible, but I find that it tends to subvert the entire point of the creature if you are just another player character with a few new 'tendencies'.

My preferred method of dealing with it is to be convinced from an in-character view that you are the same person. Doing the same things for the same reasons. However, as a player, twist the actions to be greedy, cruel, and subversive. Limit hindering the party, of course, unless you want to be cured/purified with a quickness. But convince yourself that the ill in town really needed to die to stop their suffering, and draining them helped you in the process, so why not? And naturally draining blood from the ill wasn't all that tasty, so the old man's daughter was a good followup. It was really for her own good, she loved her father too much to live without him.

My 2cp

I second, third and fourth this.

[Eslin]

I would try to have the changes feel natural if your group actually cares about alignment. Mine really doesn't - when a character got wereboar'd we figured spontaneously turning evil was stupid and instead had the character become stubborn and cantankerous.

A vampire's lawful evil nature should be examined in sections. They're lawful not because of any inherent respect for authority, but because of their strict or compulsive natures. Vampires often have OCD-like behaviours, fastidious natures or very specific codes they must follow - these aren't magical compulsions, just how the mind works. Try to pick a lawful sort of disorder or habit for your character to involuntarily acquire.

Evil wise, this isn't the capital E Evil where you kill puppies for the sake of it, you may be able to avoid the brunt of it by finding willing targets for blood drinkage but your main priority just became yourself.

Unlike what Sartharina said, there's absolutely no indication that the vampire isn't you. It's your soul, just twisted.

[Mrmox42]

The most enjoyable character I ever played, was a high-level 3.5E Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric, who was turned into a vampire by some sort of nasty gypsy curse that he brought upon himself by doing something very stupid.

The DM handled the transition in alignment brilliantly, by passing me notes about my new ‘urges’, and how doing the things I now wanted to do would further the cause of good and our party’s goal (we were, after all, saving the world from utter annihilation by some sort of Cthulhuesque entity who were about to be summoned – and indeed were summoned – by ye classic mad cultists and their monstrous cronies.)

So creating an army of undead made perfectly good sence when fighting an enemy army of minotaurs. After all, our dead warriors could fight a second time.

And burning down the entire great elven forest using summoned Fire Elementals was neccesary, because the enemy army used it to hide in. Yes, the forest spirits and treehugging elves had to skedaddle or burn, but we were after all saving the world, here.

And feeding on the blood of people made sense. Yes, they died – some of them – but again, they gave their lives, so I could go and save the world. You have to sacrifice some pawns to win the game. Regretful, yes, but ultimately neccesary.

Turning local lords, guildmasters and spellcasters into thralls was extremely neccesary, as a unified and obedient coalition was needed against the enemy, and we had no time for petty squabbles and politics and such trifling matters. Now they all did what they were told.

The story became even better when my horrified partymates found out that I was planning on turning my characters’ love-interest into an undead as well. This again made perfect sence, as we could then spend eternity together, rather than see her wither and die. Eternal love, what could be better?

What I especially liked about the whole story was that the transition towards evil was slow and could be roleplayed all the way. My partymates’ inceasing - and genuine - worries about their friend who were becoming a monster was brilliant, as they were dependant on him as the party healer but loathed the things he was doing.

In the end, we defeated the Big Bad Monster, and then the rest of the party immediately turned on my character and attacked him, as they deemed him to be too dangerous to exist.
I had planned on that, however, and my Contingency spell whisked me away, free to pursue my own goals.

We ended the campaign with my character being the new Big Bad Evil Guy in the world (we were about 27.th level at the time).

It was great, it was memorable, and we are still talking about it in the group. Good times.

[MrUberGr]

We're probably gonna do what pwykersotz and the rest suggested, the DM agreed.

MrMox this sounds awesome! Pretty much what I had in mind of doing. I'd take revenge, but my powers would be too good to give up. The problem is the god loving paladin. Would hate to make him a thrall, or use charm on him, but what has to be done, will be done.:smallbiggrin:

[pwykersotz]

We're probably gonna do what pwykersotz and the rest suggested, the DM agreed.

MrMox this sounds awesome! Pretty much what I had in mind of doing. I'd take revenge, but my powers would be too good to give up. The problem is the god loving paladin. Would hate to make him a thrall, or use charm on him, but what has to be done, will be done.:smallbiggrin:

Cool! Let us know how it turns out!

[Shining Wrath]

You need to talk to your DM when the other players are not there.

Per RAW, you have undergone an alignment change. This means that some aspects of your personality must change.

If the DM rules your soul is gone and replaced with some sort of negative energy spirit (a la Durkon), you should probably become a DM PC or an NPC. Or you must now play your character as having this new soul and the old you is GONE. And you must decide what the personality of such an entity is; it should differ from your original character in many, many ways.

If the DM rules you are still there, but with some new negative aspects to your personality, then your mission ought to be to decide: "How am I evil?". I'd say that an evil person can have virtues - bravery, loyalty - but they must in the end be outweighed by the faults for the word "evil" to have any meaning in-game.

So - what are your virtues? And what fault(s) are so powerfully a part of your personality that they outweigh those virtues?

IIRC the 7 Deadly Sins are Greed, Apathy, Lust, Wrath, Pride, Envy, and Gluttony. The two that seem to fit the classic vampire are Pride and Gluttony. You consider non-vampires to be beneath you, mere cattle; and you savor feeding far too much. Combining the two gets you a vampire who thinks of himself as a sort of epicure; yes, he'll feed on city guardsmen and drunks in alleys if he must, but a beautiful virgin is much tastier, and feeling the last feeble struggles of a Paladin as he dies beneath your fangs is pure bliss.

[MrUberGr]

I've been reading over and over the vampire entry, yet I can't find a specific answer to how vampires actually die. If they are stabbed by a wooden stake they are paralyzed. Meaning that if someone takes it out, then the vampire can go on as normal. How is it actually killed?

[pwykersotz]

I've been reading over and over the vampire entry, yet I can't find a specific answer to how vampires actually die. If they are stabbed by a wooden stake they are paralyzed. Meaning that if someone takes it out, then the vampire can go on as normal. How is it actually killed?

Dropping it to 0hp and depriving it of its resting place works, or killing it in its coffin when it is regenerating. The misty escape clause only works when it's outside its resting place, and once you remove that part they are vulnerable to HP damage.

[MrUberGr]

Well, that took long...

The party got into a card game with some fortuneteller or something like that. I was out doing... vampire business. They got the alignment change card, but the player who got it was true neutral so... Then the warlock got placed into a stasis in an extradimensional space. Then they got the wish card, so the paladin got two wishes. Then they got the "reverse one happening" so they reversed the warlock's pick. Then thy got one more good card, and the fortuneteller was so frustrated she just shooed them out. As soon as he saw me he wished I become human. :smallannoyed:

[Eslin]

Well, that took long...

The party got into a card game with some fortuneteller or something like that. I was out doing... vampire business. They got the alignment change card, but the player who got it was true neutral so... Then the warlock got placed into a stasis in an extradimensional space. Then they got the wish card, so the paladin got two wishes. Then they got the "reverse one happening" so they reversed the warlock's pick. Then thy got one more good card, and the fortuneteller was so frustrated she just shooed them out. As soon as he saw me he wished I become human. :smallannoyed:

Were you willing? If you wanted to stay a vampire, you should have been able to make a save.

[MrUberGr]

Well, as a player no! I loved the boosts it gave. As a pc I kind of did, and if I didn't I might have gotten my head lopped off, cause I already ran away from a cleric trying to turn me. The paladin gave me an ultimatum, and another guy said he didn't want to travel with me if I refused a perfectly good chance.

Besides, why make a save? And what kind of save? Against what DC?

[pwykersotz]

Well, as a player no! I loved the boosts it gave. As a pc I kind of did, and if I didn't I might have gotten my head lopped off, cause I already ran away from a cleric trying to turn me. The paladin gave me an ultimatum, and another guy said he didn't want to travel with me if I refused a perfectly good chance.

Besides, why make a save? And what kind of save? Against what DC?

Well, you make a save whenever something happens that you don't like. This definitely counts. The DC would either be vs the Paladin's casting ability or against the creator of the wish. The type is DM interpretation, it could be CON to avoid reverting or CHA to keep your new persona, or WIS because that's the new catch-all for mental stuff. It's also worth noting that Wish can only undo recent misfortune within the last round. Otherwise it hits the "you're screwed" clause and the caster might have some serious fallout.

[Ghost Nappa]

I've been reading over and over the vampire entry, yet I can't find a specific answer to how vampires actually die. If they are stabbed by a wooden stake they are paralyzed. Meaning that if someone takes it out, then the vampire can go on as normal. How is it actually killed?

Stab it in the heart with a wooden stake, cut off its head, fill its mouth with holy wafers, sew its mouth shut with silver, burn its coffin (if possible), and then cleanse the body with holy water.

Monitor the place for a week, deliberately batheing the place in as much sunlight as possible.

[pwykersotz]

Stab it in the heart with a wooden stake, cut off its head, fill its mouth with holy wafers, sew its mouth shut with silver, burn its coffin (if possible), and then cleanse the body with holy water.

Monitor the place for a week, deliberately batheing the place in as much sunlight as possible.

Or this. This is probably more fun.

By the way, what the heck are holy wafers? I see them in the comic, now here. Never heard of them before.

[hamishspence]

Probably the D&D equivalent of Communion Wafers.

[Dalebert]

I like the idea of the role-playing challenge of a good character who's in a battle with his evil urges. He should be in a constant struggle with his hunger. The good part of him doesn't want to hurt people, particularly the innocent, but the hunger is POWERFUL, especially if he hasn't found a way to feed, and animals should be completely unsatisfying. I hate when move/TV vampires subsist on animal blood. Pfft. The whole point of vampires is cannibalism. I imagine if you could have a vampire animal, it would crave others of its own kind. I imagine you might start off feeding on people who "had it coming" but your notion of "had it coming" starts to broaden over time.

[Yenek]

Read for inspiration about Vlad 3rd of Walachia, or Kaius ir'Wynarn.

Kaius is a brutal tyrant. He also cares a lot about law. He especially cares about punishing the guilty horribly. He has a vendetta vs Erandis Vol and her underlings. He is, btw, the strongest proponent of the Treaty of Thronehold and ending the Last War.

Vlad was a brutal tyrant. He also cared a lot about law and truth. He especially cared about punishing the guilty horribly.

Don't jump on the party. Be willing do horrible things to your enemies and NPC who wronged you and the party, but especially you. Kill them in gruesome ways, if circumstances allow - drink them. Even if attacking them is superfluous. If killing them is too much hassle ruin them in other ways. Make them pay horribly for ever crossing you.

P.S. Speak things up with the Pally player beforehand. Work out how much of the last paragraph he'll be able to overlook.