OMG Heat Metal is crazy good

[odigity]

Heat Metal
2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a piece of iron and a flame)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

Choose a manufactured metal object, such as a metal weapon or a suit of heavy or medium metal armor, that you can see within range. You cause the object to glow red-hot. Any creature in physical contact with the object takes 2d8 fire damage when you cast the spell. Until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on each of your subsequent turns to cause this damage again.

If a creature is holding or wearing the object and takes the damage from it, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or drop the object if it can. If it doesn’t drop the object, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks until the start of your next turn.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 2nd.

We've spent all our time since level 1 raiding the Caves of Chaos from Keep on the Borderlands, knocking out tribe after tribe of evil humanoids (goblins, then hobgoblins, then gnolls). Almost to level 4.

At level 3, the Bard picked up Heat Metal. Since then, he always saves a 2nd lvl slot till the tribal chief appears, who inevitably is wearing metal armor, then casts Heat Metal. It takes them out every time.

It has no save. It does 2d8 fire damage per round, every round, for ten rounds -- costing only the Bard's bonus action to maintain. It gives them disadvantage on attacks and ability checks. And if they fail their Con check, they spend their time pointlessly trying to take the armor off instead of moving out of range or attack the Bard, a task that takes at least 1 minute (the duration of the spell). In the meantime, they're screaming and frying while we slaughter their minions... AND IT SCALES PERFECTLY WITH SPELL SLOT (1d8/slot), so it's going to keep being worth it all the way up till the end.

In our last battled, the chieftan came out leading a half dozen other warriors behind him, two per row in a 10' wide hallway. After the Heat Metal was cast, I suggested the Bard cast Dissonant Whispers next round to force the chieftan to run away -- through his line of warriors -- then use the Bonus Action to trigger the Heat Metal again, and hope the DM rules that there's a chance the warriors come "in physical contact with the object" as he pushes past them, thereby causing them 2d8 damage as well and turning the chieftan into our personal flaming sphere. (Unfortunately, he died from the psychic damage of Dissonant Whispers before moving.)

The spell is broken even when used RAI, but if you want to go strict RAW and abuse it, then I'll point you to the part where it mentions no size limit to the metal object. In theory, you could target a metal bridge while an army crosses it. (We've houseruled it to be limited to a 5' square part of a larger metal object.)

[pwykersotz]

Yeah, it's pretty sweet. The lack of attack roll really sells it. :smallsmile:

[odigity]

Another idea:

An Arcane Trickster could use Mage Hand Legerdemain to slap some kind of manacle onto the limb of an enemy who isn't already wearing metal armor, thereby giving the Bard (or Druid) something to target with Heat Metal.

Could also rule it works on the scales of metallic dragons, but you'd have to be an evil party to realistically expect to benefit from that.

Also a great way to get people to drop/jump off siege weapons. Or a chain, if they're using it to climb. Also a remote disarming method (target weapon).

[pwykersotz]

Another idea:

An Arcane Trickster could use Mage Hand Legerdemain to slap some kind of manacle onto the limb of an enemy who isn't already wearing metal armor, thereby giving the Bard (or Druid) something to target with Heat Metal.

Could also rule it works on the scales of metallic dragons, but you'd have to be an evil party to realistically expect to benefit from that.

Also a great way to get people to drop/jump off siege weapons. Or a chain, if they're using it to climb. Also a remote disarming method (target weapon).

http://38.media.tumblr.com/9be5b5916b63685037169cceced771a0/tumblr_ncv5e5N0Rt1ro0n55o1_500.gif

[eastmabl]

Concentration tag makes keeping the heat metal spell up difficult. Once the bard starts taking damage (and why aren't the archers prodding the spellcaster?), the bard is going to struggle to keep passing the Concentration checks.

That being said, it's a solid spell.

[Astovidas]

Speaking of archers.... could a Bard or Druid heat up the Arrowheads of his archer companion(s) and they will inflict 2d8 additional damage?
I think I would allow multiple arrowheads to be targeted with one spell, as long as they are right next to each other or even touching one another.. or just stick them in a bowl with metal sand.

You could defend a small fort with that spell, or a "treehouse" for druids;
the only way up the tree is a rope-ladder out of metal or over the moat are several rope bridges out of chains, as soon as they are attacked, they heat them up and start shooting red hot arrows or metal sling bullets on the attackers. :smallsmile: The arrows have barbed heads which break off if you try to remove the arrow and still stick in your flesh, so the damage can be dealt consistently over the whole 10 rounds. so, 20d8 +1d4 (Sling) / 1d6(shortbow) / 1d8 (longbow) with only one attack.. :smallamused: and this does not count the 2d8 you take from touching the chain-bridge/rope-ladder and the falling damage. And of course the spikes in the moat.... :smallbiggrin:

I think i have to use this somehow.... :smalltongue:

[comk59]

Idunno, I might rule that red-hot arrowheads would have a chance to break their shafts... still, if they specially crafted arrows for this, I'd let my players knock themselves out.

Also, with the sling bullets... uh... how are they planning on loading their slings?

[Astovidas]

Idunno, I might rule that red-hot arrowheads would have a chance to break their shafts... still, if they specially crafted arrows for this, I'd let my players knock themselves out.

Yeah, if you take normal arrows, heat them all up and shoot them one by one in the following rounds, they would probably burn through their shafts.. But the druids would have specially crafted arrows, since they have perfected this defense over the years (or centuries).



Also, with the sling bullets... uh... how are they planning on loading their slings?

Hm.. oven mitts? :smallbiggrin: no, I see your point. I only included them since druids are not proficient with bows. But of course I could just take wood elf druids for my tree house and my problem is solved.

[comk59]

Yeah, it's a powerful spell, but hard to use as an offensive modifier without serious preparation.

Uh... since they're, y'know, druids, wouldn't they just kinda have like a perimeter of Heat Metal? I've never used druids, but I was always under the impression that they avoided using it as much as possible.

Hmm... although a bow that casts heat metal on its ammo when its fired sounds like a cool Druidy artifact. I might have to take another look at that class...

[Talderas]

costing only the Bard's bonus action to maintain.

It costs the bard's concentration and bonus action. That means no other concentration spells can be active and the bard is unable to use bardic inspiration. It can also be interupted by the bard taking damage.

Heat metal is good, don't get me wrong, I just feel that it's opportunity cost and the way it functions may not be as great as you think in comparison with other options. Heat Metal doesn't deny the enemy actions, it only inflicts damage and disadvantage. It's also better used on weapons than armor because if they elect to drop the weapon they're at an even worse situation than having disadvantage unless they carry backup weapons. There's two other concentration spells at that level that have an even larger effect the first being Crown of Madness and the second Hold Person. With Crown of Madness you can force the afflicted target to attack his allies or remain out of melee. With Hold Person the target is paralyzed and unable to take any actions. Also consider that if you're using it on a fighter type he's probably going to have an average wisdom score at best and he doesn't have wisdom save proficiency and bards have little reason to expend ability score increases on feats before capping out their charisma at 20.

[Person_Man]

I really like Heat Metal, and wish there were more spells like it. It is situationally powerful, but it has important caveats that prevents it from being something that players will spam every combat.

[GiantOctopodes]

It costs the bard's concentration and bonus action. That means no other concentration spells can be active and the bard is unable to use bardic inspiration. It can also be interupted by the bard taking damage.

Heat metal is good, don't get me wrong, I just feel that it's opportunity cost and the way it functions may not be as great as you think in comparison with other options. Heat Metal doesn't deny the enemy actions, it only inflicts damage and disadvantage. It's also better used on weapons than armor because if they elect to drop the weapon they're at an even worse situation than having disadvantage unless they carry backup weapons. There's two other concentration spells at that level that have an even larger effect the first being Crown of Madness and the second Hold Person. With Crown of Madness you can force the afflicted target to attack his allies or remain out of melee. With Hold Person the target is paralyzed and unable to take any actions. Also consider that if you're using it on a fighter type he's probably going to have an average wisdom score at best and he doesn't have wisdom save proficiency and bards have little reason to expend ability score increases on feats before capping out their charisma at 20.

Gotta disagree with you there.
1) Disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks is *huge*, and way better than depriving someone of their weapon. Also, it is much easier to carry a backup weapon (I know I do as a PC, I assume my enemies do) than it is to carry a backup armour set. Sticking someone with the choice of taking constant damage and being at a constant disadvantage or removing their armour and exposing themselves to slaughter through normal weapon attacks is a vicious conundrum for them to be placed within, and far better than "Ok, he drops his weapon, and uses his free object interaction to draw X", thereby eliminating the effect of the spell.
2) Sure, Hold Person and Crown of Madness cause better effects on a Failed save. However, Hold Person requires only one successful save (and it allows one per turn) and it does nothing. Crown of Madness requires using your Action (rather than your bonus action, and at that point trading your turn for a melee attack from the target in question) and ends if either the target saves (which it allows one per turn) or the target starts its turn not adjacent to any foes. Between those three spells, Hold Person or Crown of Madness may have the best ceiling (best possible effect), but there is absolutely no question that Heat Metal has the best possible floor (minimum effect). Personally, between the spells that may do nothing, and the one that has its most awesome effects on a successful save by the target, I'll stick with heat metal
3) Feats I'd take as a Bard before taking an ASI: Actor, (Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter) or (Defensive Dualist, Dual Wielder), Healer, Lucky, Mobile, War Caster. Basically, I personally would never take an ASI. There are too many good feats, and the benefit provided by them, while possibly mechanically inferior to being the best possible at your primary role, is too good for me to ignore. You may disagree, but nonetheless I argue that the statement that bards have little reason to expend ability score increases on feats is simply not true.

[Abithrios]

the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or drop the object if it can. If it doesn’t drop the object, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks until the start of your next turn.

I would rule that you cannot drop armor that you are actively wearing. As a result,you would not be compelled to do anything on a failed save. In fact, I would probably rule that it does not compel any loss of actions on the target. On the other hand, if you target someone's necklace, they might have a strong incentive to remove it. This might be good for targeting metal based magic items, as long as your DM doesn't hate you. Either they get disadvantage or they spend time taking off some of their power. If it is a bracer or something, it might be worth them spending an action to remove.

[MadGrady]

I also blame the DM for continually having his BBEGs dress in metal.......

[MaxWilson]

I also blame the DM for continually having his BBEGs dress in metal.......

The ones that don't dress in metal are less scary because they have AC 13 instead of AC 18 or 20. (Seriously, hobgoblins are bad news at low level.)

[Mellack]

Our table decided that armor was not "drop-able" so there is no loss of action trying to remove it. I am also surprised that all the BBEGs had metal armor. No shamen slinging spells or hide armor with a wooden shield? I would think a set of scale made from layers of bones would be cool and appropriate. For us it has been a nice spell but not OP.

[odigity]

It costs the bard's concentration and bonus action. That means no other concentration spells can be active and the bard is unable to use bardic inspiration. It can also be interupted by the bard taking damage.

Sure. But our party agrees that while the Bard's support is awesome and makes encounters much easier, there's nothing more useful than single-handedly taking out the leader with a single action + waiting. The Bard can still use his action on subsequent turns for Vicious Mockery, or Dissonant Whispers, or Sleep, or a cure spell, etc. And he rarely takes damage because he stays behind the front line, and Heat Metal gives you a 60' range to work with. The only weak spot I see is that the spell probably breaks if you the target moves beyond the range of 60' (not entirely clear from RAW), but because the target is usually spending his rounds attacking or tryign to take their armor off, we haven't been hit by that yet.


Heat Metal doesn't deny the enemy actions...

It kind of does, depending on how you read the text, and how you play the creature:

"If a creature is holding or wearing the object and takes the damage from it, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or drop the object if it can."

Our DM ruled that whenever the creature takes damage from hot armor, if it fails the Con check, it means the creature can't not spend the round trying to remove it's armor (the equiv of dropping the object) -- i.e., it's so hot you can't think about anything other than getting rid of it. Since even light armor takes as long as the spells duration to remove, that essentially means that fail save = deny enemy action. And even if they pass, if they use their action to attack or do something that requires an ability check, it happens at disadvantage, which is almost as good as denying the action in the first place. Better, if you've got Riposte. :)


It's also better used on weapons than armor...

GiantOctopodes already did a great job explaining why that's usually not true.


There's two other concentration spells at that level that have an even larger effect the first being Crown of Madness and the second Hold Person.

GiantOctopodes already did a great job explaining why Heat Metal is better than CoM and HP in many ways -- I love both those spells, and would consider taking all three if I were a Bard, but if I saw the BBEG wearing metal, there's no question which I'd choose. I'd choose HP if there were 3+ strong foes of roughly equal power, rather than 1 strong foe with mooks. I'd use CoM if I was in stealth mode and wanted to disrupt a pair of guards, or if there were exactly two very strong creatures (pair of Ogres when you're level 3).


I really like Heat Metal, and wish there were more spells like it. It is situationally powerful, but it has important caveats that prevents it from being something that players will spam every combat.

The metal requirement is a limitation, but not at all rare. At early levels especially, most tough things you encounter (evil humanoids) wear some armor. And when they don't, I've already started posting creative ideas for how to fix that (Mage Hand Legerdemain manacles, only need to fasten one of the two loops on to any limb).


Gotta disagree with you there.
3) Feats I'd take as a Bard before taking an ASI: Actor, (Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter) or (Defensive Dualist, Dual Wielder), Healer, Lucky, Mobile, War Caster. Basically, I personally would never take an ASI. There are too many good feats, and the benefit provided by them, while possibly mechanically inferior to being the best possible at your primary role, is too good for me to ignore. You may disagree, but nonetheless I argue that the statement that bards have little reason to expend ability score increases on feats is simply not true.

I hesitate to call you crazy, because everything in your post other than this paragraph was spot-on... you're not wrong in the sense of value is subjective and people are free to value a fun feat over an ASI, but when you're talking about a Bard, who's perfectly SAD and playing a support role where almost all abilities are tied to Cha (landing debuffs, giving out inspiration, etc), it's really quite inadviseable to not spend two of your ASIs getting your Cha to 20, and sooner rather than later. You don't *have* to take those right away at lvls 4 and 8, but at least one of those two slots should be a Cha boost, and probably your lvl 12 slot, too.


I would rule that you cannot drop armor that you are actively wearing. As a result,you would not be compelled to do anything on a failed save.

That's a perfectly reasonable interpretation. As I said earlier, it's not 100% clear. They're still getting disadvantage on attacks/checks, so it's still a form of action-denial. Really, the only sane thing to do if you're targeting by Heat Metal is run out of spellcaster range.


I also blame the DM for continually having his BBEGs dress in metal.......

We're low level, and have only been fighting conventional evil humanoids so far (raiding a large network of caves). It's not the DM's fault that it makes sense for the leader of a group of those to be wearing metal armor. We'll eventually move on to more exotic adventures.


The ones that don't dress in metal are less scary because they have AC 13 instead of AC 18 or 20. (Seriously, hobgoblins are bad news at low level.)

Exactly right. Our first casting of it was on the Hobgoblin chief. At AC18, even the rank-and-file Hobgoblins are hard for us to hit, and Heat Metal completely ignores that problem.

[jaydubs]

The only weak spot I see is that the spell probably breaks if you the target moves beyond the range of 60' (not entirely clear from RAW)...


Really, the only sane thing to do if you're targeting by Heat Metal is run out of spellcaster range.

The last line of the "Range" entry on page 203 reads: "Once a spell is cast, its effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell's description says otherwise." Heat metal's description doesn't mention it ending if the target moves out of range. And using a bonus action to cause the damage again isn't re-casting the spell. So it seems pretty clear to me that leaving that 60' range doesn't end the spell.

But, I don't really have total rules mastery of 5e yet. Is there another line in the PHB or elsewhere that suggests Heat Metal would be limited to its range?

[MaxWilson]

Exactly right. Our first casting of it was on the Hobgoblin chief. At AC18, even the rank-and-file Hobgoblins are hard for us to hit, and Heat Metal completely ignores that problem.

No kidding. One of my most memorable low-level fights so far is 4 4th level characters and 1 3rd level wizard invading a hobgoblin warren to steal plans for an upcoming invasion, and accidentally running smack dab into the CR 6 Hobgoblin Warlord and his buddies. It was a CR 10 encounter overall and would have been extremely dicey if not for the fact that the DM (me) had neglected to build the corridors wider than 5' across, which combined with surprise on the part of the party allowed the wizard to exploit Web to keep the Warlord grappled for most of the fight, and the other hobgoblins stuck behind him and unable to engage effectively from the room they were trapped in. (There was an alternate corridor available but the Moon Druid had it covered pretty well.) Anyway, the bard actually had access to Heat Metal, and if he had thought to use it on the Warlord the fight would have been a lot shorter and more one-sided.

My conclusion: Heat Metal is situational but definitely worth learning at low levels. At higher levels it might be okay to swap it out, but I'm undecided about that.

[odigity]

My conclusion: Heat Metal is situational but definitely worth learning at low levels. At higher levels it might be okay to swap it out, but I'm undecided about that.

It scales with spell slot. Max 9d8 every round for 10 rounds, no save, and apparently no range limit (thanks jaydubs), with only one action spent. I don't see this ever not be worth having available except on a day where you expect to only have one big encounter where it won't be useful, but lots of other spells are needed -- like invading and defeating Smaug.

[MadGrady]

The ones that don't dress in metal are less scary because they have AC 13 instead of AC 18 or 20. (Seriously, hobgoblins are bad news at low level.)

You could always have it be magically hardened wood or dragon scales or something to where it isn't metal but still maintains AC.

[MaxWilson]

It scales with spell slot. Max 9d8 every round for 10 rounds, no save, and apparently no range limit (thanks jaydubs), with only one action spent. I don't see this ever not be worth having available except on a day where you expect to only have one big encounter where it won't be useful, but lots of other spells are needed -- like invading and defeating Smaug.

Blowing a 9th level spell on Heat Metal? Urgh, no thanks.

The reason I'm undecided about swapping it out at high level is simply due to opportunity cost (only a certain number of spells known), and the relative dearth of dangerous high-CR things that use metal armor. Not that you will never fight low-CR things at high level, but at that level, simply killing them instead of wasting a 2nd level spell slot on them becomes an option. Therefore, if I've got a full spell list, and I am trying to decide between dropping Regenerate or Heat Metal, I'm probably going to pick the one that provides a unique capability (Regenerate: never start your turn at less than 1 HP) and not the one which lets me give disadvantage to certain kinds of creatures at the cost of my Concentration.


You could always have it be magically hardened wood or dragon scales or something to where it isn't metal but still maintains AC.

You could, but this should be rare or else it gets cheesey.

[odigity]

Blowing a 9th level spell on Heat Metal? Urgh, no thanks.

Not saying you *should* spend a 9th lvl slot on it. :) Just pointing out the max dmg it's capable of for comparison purposes. I guess we should compare it to another single-target spell that does damage per-round, but I'm not that familiar with high level spells, having never made it that far. Disintegrate is instantaneous, but seems to be a popular choice for doing mass damage to a single target with a high-level slot, so maybe compare it to that to evaluate how competitive it is?


The reason I'm undecided about swapping it out at high level is simply due to opportunity cost (only a certain number of spells known), and the relative dearth of dangerous high-CR things that use metal armor.

That's fair. Though, even at 20th level, you still face powerful NPCs in addition to exotic colossal non-metallic creatures, and NPCs (other than wizards and druids) will usually have have metal armor on. It's never completely useless at any stage of a campaign.

[MaxWilson]

That's fair. Though, even at 20th level, you still face powerful NPCs in addition to exotic colossal non-metallic creatures, and NPCs (other than wizards and druids) will usually have have metal armor on. It's never completely useless at any stage of a campaign.

Right, which is why it's still a possible contender. I don't know which way I'd choose until I actually sit down with a bardic spell list and start painfully crossing off the must-have spells until I get a legal list. Unlike wizards, bards really only get 2 or 3 spells per level.

[Chambers]

I also blame the DM for continually having his BBEGs dress in metal.......

It's the Caves of Chaos. :smallwink:

I'm also running it for a 5e group, using the original box set adventure (not the 5e playtest version). The party is level 4 and have had two sessions in the Final Cave. Probably a good 5 or 6 more sessions to finish it off.

[jkat718]

Idunno, I might rule that red-hot arrowheads would have a chance to break their shafts... still, if they specially crafted arrows for this, I'd let my players knock themselves out.

Also, with the sling bullets... uh... how are they planning on loading their slings?

I'm assuming they either heat the bummers after putting them in the sling, or they just use gloves or something. But aren't the sling bullets supposed to be stone, not metal?

[jaydubs]

I'm assuming they either heat the bummers after putting them in the sling, or they just use gloves or something. But aren't the sling bullets supposed to be stone, not metal?

I'm not sure if there's any language about it in 5e. But historically, they could were often cast from lead. And in 3.5, regular sling bullets were made of steel.

[Occasional Sage]

An enemy caster is making my plate armor glow red, and it'll take me more time to remove it than to die?

Sounds like time to start hugging his softest friends, see who blinks first.

[comk59]

I'm assuming they either heat the bummers after putting them in the sling, or they just use gloves or something. But aren't the sling bullets supposed to be stone, not metal?

If wearing gloves worked then this spell would be rendered useless against anyone wearing padding under their armor.

[hymer]

An enemy caster is making my plate armor glow red, and it'll take me more time to remove it than to die?

Sounds like time to start hugging his softest friends, see who blinks first.

You'll be hugging at disadvantage. You may also be doing less to harm your enemies by hugging than by doing whatever else you'd be likely to be doing in a fight. The caster can also choose to apply the damage or not in any given round, so if you make yourself useless for a round by hugging, the spell has done more than can be expected of it at least for that round.
So this is only a good counter under the right circumstances, like if you're a highly skilled hugger and everyone doesn't just run off and leave you to boil like a lobster in your armour.
Edit: You'll need a cooperative DM too. There's no clear RAW way to touch other people with your armour.

[pwykersotz]

You'll be hugging at disadvantage. You may also be doing less to harm your enemies by hugging than by doing whatever else you'd be likely to be doing in a fight. The caster can also choose to apply the damage or not in any given round, so if you make yourself useless for a round by hugging, the spell has done more than can be expected of it at least for that round.
So this is only a good counter under the right circumstances, like if you're a highly skilled hugger and everyone doesn't just run off and leave you to boil like a lobster in your armour.
Edit: You'll need a cooperative DM too. There's no clear RAW way to touch other people with your armour.

Methinks a grapple check would suffice for most DM's.

[Knaight]

Edit: You'll need a cooperative DM too. There's no clear RAW way to touch other people with your armour.

This seems like a non-issue. There are rules for grabbing someone, and it's not like physical contact with the armor is somehow unreasonable. Plus, it's an interesting, dynamic reaction to being hit with it, and a lot of DM's want to encourage it.

[Dalebert]

An enemy caster is making my plate armor glow red, and it'll take me more time to remove it than to die?

Sounds like time to start hugging his softest friends, see who blinks first.

I'm with you. I think our DM is interpreting the spell too favorably. I take it to mean the save or drop is a reflex. You're not carrying your armor so you don't have to fight the reflex to let go of it as you would, say a metal weapon. Yes, it hurts at the rate of 2d6 of damage but so does getting hit by an orc barbarian or whatever. You still wade into battle.

If someone cast this in my game, I would not have it completely debilitate the leader, and if they're reasonably smart, they might deduce who's causing it and go after him, particularly if they have ranged attacks. And a leader will command his troops to go after whomever he thinks is the cause of his pain.

[hymer]

Methinks a grapple check would suffice for most DM's.


This seems like a non-issue. There are rules for grabbing someone, and it's not like physical contact with the armor is somehow unreasonable. Plus, it's an interesting, dynamic reaction to being hit with it, and a lot of DM's want to encourage it.

While I'd probably agree as a DM, I could definitely see a decision going in another direction. Basic grappling in 5th keeps you and your target in their own respective fighting spaces, and it only uses one of your arms. The target is unaffected in her/his ability to attack, cast spells, etc. That could be interpreted as simply having a hand on someone, preventing them from running off, and seems a little incongruous with having them solidly tucked under your arm.

[Knaight]

While I'd probably agree as a DM, I could definitely see a decision going in another direction. Basic grappling in 5th keeps you and your target in their own respective fighting spaces, and it only uses one of your arms. The target is unaffected in her/his ability to attack, cast spells, etc. That could be interpreted as simply having a hand on someone, preventing them from running off, and seems a little incongruous with having them solidly tucked under your arm.

Fortunately, that's what the disadvantage mechanic is for.

[hymer]

Fortunately, that's what the disadvantage mechanic is for.

I don't follow. Heat Metal can inflict disadvantage, but basic grappling doesn't.

[Dalebert]

It's a really good spell for dealing damage, but I think our DM's interpretation is making it better than it otherwise would be.

[Argo]

I would rule that you cannot drop armor that you are actively wearing. As a result,you would not be compelled to do anything on a failed save. In fact, I would probably rule that it does not compel any loss of actions on the target.

I'm sorry?

The spell says that if you are wearing an object targeted with Heat Metal, you have to try to drop it on a failed save.

Are you suggesting that you somehow are not wearing armor that you're wearing?

Why do you think they included that in the spell description?
What do people in D&D commonly wear that's made of metal? (Hint: It's armor)

The spell is intended for exactly this purpose.

[Spojaz]

Would it be possible to use this spell and create magic item to make some sort of death collar?
Place it on your target's neck, and disadvantage and damage become their constant companion. After victory, unlock to disable heating. Makes a great gift!

On second thought, this doesn't seem like something the heroes should have.

[Dalebert]

The spell says that if you are wearing an object targeted with Heat Metal, you have to try to drop it on a failed save.

That's not what it says:

...or drop the object if it can. If it doesn’t drop the object, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks until the start of your next turn.

It can't drop armor, obviously, so it has disadvantage as described. Clearly it's not intended to ever be rendered completely actionless attempting to drop something and inevitably failing. Most metal armor takes a minute to remove. It can't be just dropped. Disadvantage plus continual damage is still a really nice effect.

Be careful what power you wish for because the DM may one day use it on you.

[odigity]

Be careful what power you wish for because the DM may one day use it on you.

Luckily it's only on Bard and Druid lists. Let's avoid pissing off anyone that seems to have levels in either...

(Not that I care, being the Monk.)

[BigONotation]

I could see the spell heating a piece of metal armor, but not all of it. Like the breast plate out of a suit of full plate, so the target only has to remove that piece to deal with the spell.

[Abithrios]

An enemy caster is making my plate armor glow red, and it'll take me more time to remove it than to die?

Sounds like time to start hugging his softest friends, see who blinks first.

I feel like an ally casting heat metal on you could be a good buff for a grappling build.

If your grapple modifier is higher than your opponent's, then disadvantage on both your rolls means that you are more likely to maintain the grapple. If your CON save is better than theirs, then you are less likely to have disadvantage.

Tiefling for resistance to fire damage.

Start with a level of barbarian or fighter for CON proficiency. Dip bard or rogue for expertise. Return to barbarian or fighter.

Alternatively, after 1 level of fighter or barbarian, you could just go straight rogue until you get reliable talent, which is more valuable than it normally is for a grappler, since you are planning to have and inflict disadvantage on the grapple checks so often.

Wear a heavy gauntlet on one hand (the one you want to do the grappling with), start a grapple, and either you or an ally casts heat metal on the gauntlet. At this point, it should be unambiguously touching both of you.

If you want to be the one to do the casting, you can. Resistance to fire damage, CON proficiency and war caster make you almost immune to the concentration saves you trigger on yourself. After you get heat metal and expertise from bard levels, you can either stay in bard for more and better spell slots or go back to fighter for the extra attacks, spell slots, and (more importantly) extra ability score increases--this build is rather MAD, requiring STR for athletics, CHA for the save DC, and CON to concentrate and survive the damage you are inflicting on yourself. Also, Eldritch Strike is ambiguously worded--it might cause your enemy disadvantage against the con saves. (Please do not turn this into a RAW debate. If you have strong opinions about the matter, START A NEW THREAD to argue it.)

Mage slayer can give advantage to your saves if the spell is cast from within 5 feet.

[Dalebert]

If your CON save is better than theirs, then you are less likely to have disadvantage.

You don't get a save to avoid the disadvantage. The save is to resist dropping the item. If you don't drop it, you incur disadvantage. Armor isn't drop-able so this spell automatically incurs disadvantage, no save, if you cast it on someone's armor.

It's weird but yeah. Generally you would willingly drop it, if possible, and maybe draw another item but someone with an awesome magic sword or metal wand might try to save and hold onto it and accept the disadvantage so they could continue using it.

[jaydubs]

I could see the spell heating a piece of metal armor, but not all of it. Like the breast plate out of a suit of full plate, so the target only has to remove that piece to deal with the spell.

The spell does specifically state that it applies to a suit of armor, rather than a piece of it though. "Choose a manufactured metal object, such as a metal weapon or a suit of heavy or medium metal armor..."

Also, removing a breastplate (medium armor) is itself listed as taking 1 minute, at which the spell would have worn off anyway.

[Abithrios]

You don't get a save to avoid the disadvantage. The save is to resist dropping the item. If you don't drop it, you incur disadvantage. Armor isn't drop-able so this spell automatically incurs disadvantage, no save, if you cast it on someone's armor.

It's weird but yeah. Generally you would willingly drop it, if possible, and maybe draw another item but someone with an awesome magic sword or metal wand might try to save and hold onto it and accept the disadvantage so they could continue using it.

Good point. In that case it is probably even better for grappling than I thought. Mutually Assured Disadvantage is good for the side with the higher modifier. Also, you are more likely to have a way of canceling the disadvantage than whatever creature you surprise with this trick.


I don't see any penalty for failing the save as long as the heat source is undroppable.

This becomes more useful for other classes, such as paladins, since you don't even need proficiency in CON saves, unless you want to be the one concentrating on the spell.

[Dalebert]

I don't see any penalty for failing the save as long as the heat source is undroppable.

True. In fact, there's not really any point in bothering with a saving throw unless the item is both drop-able and the target actually wants to continue holding it despite the considerable negatives of doing so.

[Julian Julias]

I would allow for the enemies to damage their armor in order to quickly remove it in one turn. For example cutting the binding. The Rules for removing armor assumes you dont want it damaged. But in a life or death situation things like that would change.

[Dalebert]

I would allow for the enemies to damage their armor in order to quickly remove it in one turn. For example cutting the binding. The Rules for removing armor assumes you dont want it damaged. But in a life or death situation things like that would change.

Good point. Mending cantrip to the rescue!

[Knaight]

I don't follow. Heat Metal can inflict disadvantage, but basic grappling doesn't.

Disadvantage on a grapple check is a good way to model trying to do something more particular with grappling than just the standard grapple.