Monk multiclass for Fighter features?

[Windrammer]

For example, fighting styles. Do none of those apply to an unarmed monk? Can fists count as melee weapons for the purpose of fighter features or battle master maneuvers, or will a weapon be needed for this? What does a monk have to do/keep in mind to multiclass with fighter? Any advice is welcome

[Giant2005]

Fists are considered melee weapons.
The only Fighting style that could really qualify/benefit a Monk would be Dueling but then again, the argument could be made that you have a weapon in each hand (Two fists) so it wouldn't qualify. Of course that same argument could be made about anyone wielding a weapon with nothing in the off-hand so I doubt any DM worth his salt would give you trouble.

[Windrammer]

Fists are considered melee weapons.
The only Fighting style that could really qualify/benefit a Monk would be Dueling but then again, the argument could be made that you have a weapon in each hand (Two fists) so it wouldn't qualify. Of course that same argument could be made about anyone wielding a weapon with nothing in the off-hand so I doubt any DM worth his salt would give you trouble.

So since most if not all martial maneuvers can now be applied, do you think it's worth doing?

[Giant2005]

So since most if not all martial maneuvers can now be applied, do you think it's worth doing?
Not really.
It depends a lot on what type of Monk you are and what level you are hopeful to reach in the game.
For instance I wouldn't give up the Monk's level 18 ability for 3 Fighter levels. Nor would I ever give up the level 14 Monk ability.
So at minimum, you want to have Monk 14 before you even consider adding Fighter but then those 3 Fighter levels would infringe on the Monk Archetype's level 17 ability. Both Open Hand and Way of Shadow have absolutely incredibly level 17 abilities, neither of which would be worth giving up for 3 levels of Fighter but the Element Monk doesn't get much at all that level.
TLDR: I'd consider it a worthy investment but only if you were an Element Monk that was level 14 already and expected to be able to reach level 17 but not 18 or higher.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Fists are considered melee weapons.
The only Fighting style that could really qualify/benefit a Monk would be Dueling but then again, the argument could be made that you have a weapon in each hand (Two fists) so it wouldn't qualify. Of course that same argument could be made about anyone wielding a weapon with nothing in the off-hand so I doubt any DM worth his salt would give you trouble.

How do you have a fist in your hand? You know, while the other hand isn't in it.

I understand where you are coming from but any DM says a fist counts as having a weapon in your other hand will get that as a reply.

I mean, if you are Kirk double fist punching people then GWF would work well and then dueling wouldn't fly but... Yeah...

[Abithrios]

How do you have a fist in your hand? You know, while the other hand isn't in it.

I understand where you are coming from but any DM says a fist counts as having a weapon in your other hand will get that as a reply.

I mean, if you are Kirk double fist punching people then GWF would work well and then dueling wouldn't fly but... Yeah...

If it doesn't work, just hold something harmless in your other hand.

Hmmm...

That might not work, as everything is a deadly weapon in the right hands...

[SpawnOfMorbo]

If it doesn't work, just hold something harmless in your other hand.

Hmmm...

That might not work, as everything is a deadly weapon in the right hands...

I believe by RAW you can't unarmed duelist. You need a monk weapon in one hand.

You could argue that a double fist punch is considered dueling though. As one hand is in the other and the other has nothing.

Or because you have both hands in each other it counts as holding a two handed weapon where GWF comes into play...

Pretty interesting.

[Z3ro]

I believe by RAW you can't unarmed duelist. You need a monk weapon in one hand.

You could argue that a double fist punch is considered dueling though. As one hand is in the other and the other has nothing.

Or because you have both hands in each other it counts as holding a two handed weapon where GWF comes into play...

Pretty interesting.

This falls into the same problem as crossbow expert; the rules (afaik) never define "wielding", leaving it up to the DM to decide what counts and what doesn't.

In my own opinion, unarmed strikes would count for deulist. They're on the weapon table just like every other weapon, with nothing to differentiate them from other weapons that do count for the fighting style. While it doesn't say the strike is "wielded", it never says the other weapons are either.

[Person_Man]

I'm generally not the best rules lawyer for determining RAW. But my opinion is that Fighting Style and Martial Arts were not intended to work together.

Separately, I think that the designers tried to give every class pretty similar at-will damage progression, while making it to appear like they had different abilities. So every class gets something close to 12ish average damage per turn that scales up to something close to 45ish damage per turn. But they get a bunch of different abilities and caveats for doing so.

Then it came time to add in the multi-class rules. They didn't want to break this basic framework, since all of their class and monster design was based around it. So they added in a bunch of restrictions that prevent players from stacking damage bonuses. Extra Attack doesn't stack, Sneak Attack can only be used with Finesse or Ranged weapons, Barbarian and Half-Orc damage bonuses can only be used with melee weapons, Two Weapon Fighting can only be used with Light weapons, Great Weapon Fighting can only be used with Heavy Weapons, the same Fighting Style can't be taken more then once, Martial Arts only works with limited weapons, the peculiar wording of Fighting Style that seems to exclude stacking with Martial Arts, etc.

The down side of this is that many multi-class combinations suck, because if you don't get Extra Attack and some kind of damage bump at level 11ish, your at-will damage drops significantly.

[Windrammer]

Not really.
It depends a lot on what type of Monk you are and what level you are hopeful to reach in the game.
For instance I wouldn't give up the Monk's level 18 ability for 3 Fighter levels. Nor would I ever give up the level 14 Monk ability.
So at minimum, you want to have Monk 14 before you even consider adding Fighter but then those 3 Fighter levels would infringe on the Monk Archetype's level 17 ability. Both Open Hand and Way of Shadow have absolutely incredibly level 17 abilities, neither of which would be worth giving up for 3 levels of Fighter but the Element Monk doesn't get much at all that level.
TLDR: I'd consider it a worthy investment but only if you were an Element Monk that was level 14 already and expected to be able to reach level 17 but not 18 or higher.

If it's a level 20 build you're fine for the level 17 archetype. I just didn't care very much about the abilities beyond 17.