End of the Beginning (L&L)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/end-beginning


Some interesting info here.

Specifically...

"Next year, we’ll also have surveys to get a sense of where the game has settled and what might need our scrutiny. Part of that desire is making sure that we understand how the game is serving your needs and what character options and rules variants we can introduce to make your life easier.

On top of that, we have a full slate of new articles coming up in 2015. We’re starting a series called Unearthed Arcana, a monthly look at the art of tabletop RPG game design featuring insights into our philosophy, and examples of new and variant material to use at your table.

For rules questions, Jeremy Crawford will take up the hallowed mantle of the Sage as we launch Sage Advice. Expect a variety of rulings from on high, advice on how to cut the Gordian Knots your players manage to tie, and insight into how and why the rules work the way they do."

Should be fun

[Madfellow]

I was hoping they would avoid rules bloat like this, but maybe you'll get your Superman Fighter after all.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I was hoping they would avoid rules bloat like this, but maybe you'll get your Superman Fighter after all.

Yes because a high fantasy fighter is sooo bad in a setting where everyone else is high fantasy :smallsigh:.

Rules bloat is not always a bad thing. It is how you deal with more rules and how you create them.

If you just throw new rules out there without thinking of the core rules then you may have a problem. Like if they have an ability that calls out a move action to activate when there isn't a move action to begin with (you just get to move, it isn't an action).

Each new book or rule set needs to balance themselves with the PHB and then have a (actually common) table rule where you may use PHB + 1 Extra Book or ruleset.

As a DM you should be open to new rules and ideas, your main goal is to make sure players have fun and if the stuff is balanced there shouldn't be a problem. Be flexible and accepting instead of ridgid and biased. Fantasy at its base is all about flexibility.

Of course, wotc wouldn't know balance if it wore red lipstick and Frenched them.

Calling additional rules, "Rules Bloat" is petty and doesn't actually cover the issue.

[pwykersotz]

I was hoping they would avoid rules bloat like this, but maybe you'll get your Superman Fighter after all.

Is creating new variant modules so problematic? Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a release of fluff material, but variant rules seem fine to me. Most of them go unused, but there are gems to be found.

[Madfellow]

Is creating new variant modules so problematic? Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a release of fluff material, but variant rules seem fine to me. Most of them go unused, but there are gems to be found.

My attitude stems from my experience with my group at home playing 3.5. Their strategy to 3.5 was to pirate ALL OF THE BOOKS!!!, read them all with their hours upon hours of free time, and then dream up wildly improbable and stupidly broken characters using the stuff they found. Do you have any idea what it's like to try and DM for a group like that?

Just once, I'd like things to be simple.

[pwykersotz]

My attitude stems from my experience with my group at home playing 3.5. Their strategy to 3.5 was to pirate ALL OF THE BOOKS!!!, read them all with their hours upon hours of free time, and then dream up wildly improbable and stupidly broken characters using the stuff they found. Do you have any idea what it's like to try and DM for a group like that?

Just once, I'd like things to be simple.

Ah, fair point. :smallbiggrin:

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ah, fair point. :smallbiggrin:

Which is why a popular houserule since 2003 has been core +1.

Or talking to players an explain what you want at the table (DM) or talk to the DM and seeing what is expected at the table (player) like adults.

If a group wants to use all the books and you don't then you are the odd one out. If you are the DM you can straight up say "keep it simple" but you should always focus on the wants and needs of your players and not just yourself. I know compromise isn't that popular but it gets great results.

Go into a game on the same note and things tend to turn out better.

[pwykersotz]

Which is why a popular houserule since 2003 has been core +1.

Or talking to players an explain what you want at the table (DM) or talk to the DM and seeing what is expected at the table (player) like adults.

If a group wants to use all the books and you don't then you are the odd one out. If you are the DM you can straight up say "keep it simple" but you should always focus on the wants and needs of your players and not just yourself. I know compromise isn't that popular but it gets great results.

Go into a game on the same note and things tend to turn out better.

Not that I disagree on any particular point, but such a happy compromise isn't always possible. Sometimes a player comes to you and is super excited about a new build. And you know it will crack your campaign in half, but darn it, everyone else thinks its cool too. So you sigh, smile, and say sure, you can play that.

I know this, because I've been that DM, and I've been one of those players. I cracked my DM's campaign so hard his gods failed to stop me. My Psion John Telemain is now infamous in my gaming circles, and I've sworn to never do anything like that again. :smalltongue:

It was fun, but it was super tough for my DM and I feel bad for putting him through that in retrospect.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Not that I disagree on any particular point, but such a happy compromise isn't always possible. Sometimes a player comes to you and is super excited about a new build. And you know it will crack your campaign in half, but darn it, everyone else thinks its cool too. So you sigh, smile, and say sure, you can play that.

I know this, because I've been that DM, and I've been one of those players. I cracked my DM's campaign so hard his gods failed to stop me. My Psion John Telemain is now infamous in my gaming circles, and I've sworn to never do anything like that again. :smalltongue:

It was fun, but it was super tough for my DM and I feel bad for putting him through that in retrospect.

See there is a huge difference between people who specifically look to break a game and someone who has a new build they never played and isn't trying to break a game.

Bud the build but don't try to break the game, and the DM still allows for you to use the extra stuff if you are responsible with it.

Sounds like you acted like an adult and came to a compromise with your DM. If you come up with a new build and don't try to break the game is that DM going to instaban it?

[ghost_warlock]

There's also the type of player who thinks "yeah, I could cast spell-X, spell-Y, and spell-Z to totally disrupt the space-time continuum in this campaign...but I think I'll just cast meteor swarm instead because that's better for everyone at the table in the long run. Besides, the DM let me have this cool staff from this splatbook that does +1 fire damage so booyah!"

[CrusaderJoe]

Jeremy Crawford is now the big dog, and apparently always was, when it comes to rule questions.

Random note, you can use Warlock Slots for Paladin Smites (per JC tweet response).

Fun times fun times...