roll on the dice to hit, and how are great weapon fighter / sharpshooter useful?

[LucianoAr]

maybe our DM is kind of a **** or something... but i hated GWF.

its like, already hard to hit things already, if you get a -5 to hit say goodbye to hitting anything

say, my lvl 6 paladin has 18str, and +3 prof, for a +7 to hit. in our table, no monster has less than 18 ac, ever. (our dm considers hitting on less than a 10 on the dice something unacceptable)

with a -5 youre hitting on a 16+, and hitting once every 4 attacks certainly is not good, keep the +10 dmg, id rather hit something.

should we talk to the dm? do the feats suck?

what do you guys consider, all modifiers aside, a hit? 8+ on the dice?, 10+? 12+?

[Giant2005]

I don't rate GWF too highly but Sharpshooter is a lot more bearable due to the +2 to hit from the archery fighting style.
Basically there are three situations where GWF is useful:
1. You are fighting something with low enough AC that you are likely to hit it anyway.
2. You are fighting something with a high enough AC that you need a 20 to hit regardless of whether or not you use the ability.
3. Your regular damage is low enough that the +10 to damage is more than enough compensation for the extra hits that are missing due to it.

The first situation doesn't really matter if you have GWF or not - mobs of that caliber are probably going be a walk in the park anyway. I don't think the second situation actually exists in the game as of now (No level appropriate mobs have an AC high enough compared to your to-hit to reach that point). The third situation is possible if your opponent has relatively low AC so you don't miss too many times and your class/equipment have no damage bonuses beyond the standard single ability score and base weapon damage.

[MaxWilson]

say, my lvl 6 paladin has 18str, and +3 prof, for a +7 to hit. in our table, no monster has less than 18 ac, ever. (our dm considers hitting on less than a 10 on the dice something unacceptable)

In this metagame, GWM/Sharpshooter lose most of their attraction. I would take something else unless/until your DM changes his approach. He's not really playing 5E.

[Daishain]

What Luciano said.

Also, yeah, 18 or higher is unusually high (at least by comparison to what seems to be average AC in the monster manual) Aside from enemies wearing actual armor, dodge insanely well, and/or who have hides that are just that bloody tough, most things have an AC in the 10-15 range.

Under these circumstances, those feats would seem to have sharply decreased usefulness. If the GM is disinclined to change his approach for the campaign, I suggest asking to swap the feat out for something less sensitive to such tinkering.

In my personal opinion, unless speaking of an exceptionally tough opponent, a competent fighter should be able to land a blow at minimum 50% of the time.

[bloodshed343]

You should talk to the dm. This system uses bounded accuracy, which means you're going to get better at hitting things as you level, meaning that you shouldn't have to roll as high to hit things as you level if he uses monsters out of the book. Also, it isn't fair to the player if monsters hit more often than they do, because it's no fun to feel weak. Player ac doesn't scale as you level very much. By the time you can afford to buy the best armor in whatever category you wear, that's pretty much your ac.

If your dm wants to run a game where the rough percentage to hit doesn't change as you level, he should use 4e. In general, most characters will hit on a 10, with some martial characters hitting on an 8 or 9, except the rogue who can hit on a 2 at high levels.

[Townopolis]

maybe our DM is kind of a **** or something...

say, my lvl 6 paladin has 18str, and +3 prof, for a +7 to hit. in our table, no monster has less than 18 ac, ever. (our dm considers hitting on less than a 10 on the dice something unacceptable)

Your DM is kind of a ****.

5e design includes enemies with low AC but high HP and/or resistances (or just very strong offensive abilities). Take, for example, the black pudding: AC 7, 4 damage immunities, ~85 hp. CR 4. Giant-types and casters also commonly have lower AC than a goblin. Your DM is letting his flawed perception of what is required of a challenging enemy to ruin elements of the edition.

[Giant2005]

There is a thread on the first page of this forum that I'll say no more about due to this forum's stupid rule about referencing other threads, a member named Koury has been kind enough to collate the data on mobs by CR rank. Mobs as low as CR 4 (That is as low as his table goes) have ARs of 18 so if he was cherry picking mobs based on that factor it is quite possible for them all to be around that value. However those mobs are obviously an outlier at that level as they don't start to average AC 18 until CR 15.

[MaxWilson]

There is a thread on the first page of this forum that I'll say no more about due to this forum's stupid rule about referencing other threads, a member named Koury has been kind enough to collate the data on mobs by CR rank. Mobs as low as CR 4 (That is as low as his table goes) have ARs of 18 so if he was cherry picking mobs based on that factor it is quite possible for them all to be around that value. However those mobs are obviously an outlier at that level as they don't start to average AC 18 until CR 15.

I just reread the forum rules and I don't see anything wrong with referencing other threads (in some cases it is actually encouraged, e.g. instead of thread necro) so I will fearlessly post the link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387385-Monster-Stat-By-CR-(45-8-Done)).

[Foodle]

It's quite decent still especially for a paladin (Devotion/Vengeance at least) with their channel divinity features either providing bonus to hit or advantage on the attack rolls, making that penalty not as bad.

Also the other bonus of the feat is you get a free attack against something nearby if you reduce a monster to 0hp, which with smite should happen quite a bit.

But yeah, 18AC on average is crazy for a monster. Unless you're attacking a rich set of guards all wearing plate mail, in which case kill them, loot their armor and go retire.

[Rummy]

GWM and Sharpshooter are much better if you have a way to get advantage reliably and/or Bless. Sharpshooter with Bless, a +1 bow, and the Archery fighting style is simply devastating.

[Shadow]

I just reread the forum rules and I don't see anything wrong with referencing other threads (in some cases it is actually encouraged, e.g. instead of thread necro) so I will fearlessly post the link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387385-Monster-Stat-By-CR-(45-8-Done)).

He's referring to External Baggage, but it doesn't apply in this situation.

[Person_Man]

If your DM were using the published modules or a balance of different creatures from the Monster Manual, there would be a variety of high, middle, and low AC monsters/NPCs. Great Weapon Fighter and Sharpshooter are very useful against monsters with mid to low AC but mid-high hit points, of which there are many.

The -5 to hit can be mitigated by Advantage, Archery Fighting Style, Bless, magic items, Improved Critical (you auto-hit on a critical hit, so if you know that an enemy has ridiculously high AC and hit points, there's no reason not to use them, since you're only going to hit on a critical hit anyway), and a few other things I'm probably forgetting.

[Giant2005]

you auto-hit on a critical hit
Minor correcttion, you don't auto-hit on a crit, you auto-hit on a natural 20. Ordinarily there is no difference but if you have an ability that increases that crit range, you can critical on hits that aren't natural 20s and therefore don't automatically hit.

[Rummy]

Minor correcttion, you don't auto-hit on a crit, you auto-hit on a natural 20. Ordinarily there is no difference but if you have an ability that increases that crit range, you can critical on hits that aren't natural 20s and therefore don't automatically hit.

Pretty sure the Devs said on Sage Advice that you auto hit on expanded crit range from Champion. That typed, it is definitely an edge case, and one that required extensive metagaming to exploit.