Cinematic Non-cobat kills

[Jlooney]

So a player came to me and asked about non combat kills. He asked specifically about holding a crossbow to someone's head and auto kills if the situation is truly hopeless for the hostage.

I was thinking about it. What about allowing an auto hit with a crit on a 10+ on the die roll?

What about a knife in the back? Even with a crit it prolly won't kill anyone with any levels at all.

There isn't a rogue in the group but if I make a ruling perhaps the player was considering an assassin rogue might not.

Any thoughts?

[Madfellow]

Have you heard of the Chunky Salsa Rule? Basically, anything that would turn a character or a part of a character into the consistency of chunky salsa is usually considered to be an insta-kill. I don't know if any system actually enforces it, but it's a common house rule.

[Jlooney]

Have you heard of the Chunky Salsa Rule? Basically, anything that would turn a character or a part of a character into the consistency of chunky salsa is usually considered to be an insta-kill. I don't know if any system actually enforces it, but it's a common house rule.

I had heard it but I wasn't talking a fall or a boulder falling on them. Just the repercussions of allowing insta-kills

[Madfellow]

My advice would be to just judge it based on common sense. A shot or stab at point blank against a foe who isn't actively defending themselves is probably going to auto-hit, and is probably going to leave a nasty mark.

[pwykersotz]

I find it works well. Though more often than not in my games it's a villain doing it to a friendly NPC.

[Eisenheim]

System aside, never let the rules get in the way of the narrative; they are there in service to the story, not the other way around. Rules shouldn't be what keeps anyone from killing someone who has been rendered helpless, but it's all down to the kind of story and the particular circumstances.

I wouldn't make an assassin who has penetrated the chamber of an ordinary human roll to kill them while they sleep, but a vampire is another matter. The guards shouldn't have a chance of failing to execute a commoner when they have weapons trained on him, but a legendary warrior might twist aside at the last moment.

Only roll when both success and failure are narratively appropriate and interesting.

[MadGrady]

System aside, never let the rules get in the way of the narrative; they are there in service to the story, not the other way around. Rules shouldn't be what keeps anyone from killing someone who has been rendered helpless, but it's all down to the kind of story and the particular circumstances.

I wouldn't make an assassin who has penetrated the chamber of an ordinary human roll to kill them while they sleep, but a vampire is another matter. The guards shouldn't have a chance of failing to execute a commoner when they have weapons trained on him, but a legendary warrior might twist aside at the last moment.

Only roll when both success and failure are narratively appropriate and interesting.

Best answer on this thread. If thematically it works to insta-kill, and the story perhaps is even enhanced - then go for it. Especially if you use a more loose system of leveling (i.e. more milestone than XP grind). I would agree also with above that no-one insta-kills my villian, but minions? heck yeah.

[Naanomi]

As a rule of thumb, I would look at the assassinate ability: presumably it represents the perfectly placed and deadly strike, so if a strike doing quadruple damage (an approximation of a critical hit, doubled again) could kill the target I would allow a 'cinematic kill' in that way. If the target was so tough that the strike couldn't do enough damage to kill even at 4X damage, I would say it just couldn't happen.

Also, I tried really hard to come up with something pithy to make fun of the misspelled word in the topic subject; but 'cobat' doesn't appear to be much besides some obscure drug (at least not in English) so I failed.

[Jlooney]

As a rule of thumb, I would look at the assassinate ability: presumably it represents the perfectly placed and deadly strike, so if a strike doing quadruple damage (an approximation of a critical hit, doubled again) could kill the target I would allow a 'cinematic kill' in that way. If the target was so tough that the strike couldn't do enough damage to kill even at 4X damage, I would say it just couldn't happen.

Also, I tried really hard to come up with something pithy to make fun of the misspelled word in the topic subject; but 'cobat' doesn't appear to be much besides some obscure drug (at least not in English) so I failed.

Hahaha I didn't even notice this. I am posting from my phone. So many typos.

[burninatortrog]

+1 for Eisenheim's answer.

The rules for HP and damage are used when multiple creatures can move, fight, and defend themselves in a chaotic situation. They're not for when a bound prisoner gets a crossbow bolt to the forehead.

[Yoroichi]

There is a similar thread regarding coup de grace.

In short, you can do lots of things.

In my party we use the vitality/wound system.

Instead of hp you get vitality points and wounds points that are the same with your constitution score.

The critical hits go directly to your wound points, but the crits are not multiplied.

So a warhammer would do 1d10 damage directly to the wound points, and if it is enough to drop him to 0 wound points (constitution) he dies.

Also being helpess in 5e is attack with advantage and if it hits it Auto crits, so basically covers almost everything regarding instakills.

Search google for vitality/wound for 3.5 e

[Freelance GM]

The only issue with cinematic kills are that the slightly more munchkin-aligned types will try to set up cinematic kills whenever it's possible, to avoid combat.

If you're okay with combat in your campaign being gradually replaced with Assassin's Creed-style one-hit-kills, go for it.

Otherwise, avoid it as much as possible.

[Feldarove]

I see no issue with letting Cinematic kills happen. Your the DM, just make sure they don't attempt to Cinematic Kill everyone. And if they try...now its time to cinematic ally kill them.

[Celcey]

I think the chunky salsa rule also applies to things like blowing people's brains out (which would happen if someone shot a crossbow point-blank into their head).

[mr_odd]

Eisenheim's answer is pretty dang good.


The only issue with cinematic kills are that the slightly more munchkin-aligned types will try to set up cinematic kills whenever it's possible, to avoid combat.

If you're okay with combat in your campaign being gradually replaced with Assassin's Creed-style one-hit-kills, go for it.

Otherwise, avoid it as much as possible.

This is something you should be careful about, but know your players and how they play, and you'll be fine.

[Jlooney]

I really don't see my players abusing this but then again three of the four have never played a tabletop rpg before.

[mr_odd]

I really don't see my players abusing this but then again three of the four have never played a tabletop rpg before.

In all honesty, that might be more of a reason for them to not abuse it.

[JAL_1138]

There is a similar thread regarding coup de grace.

In short, you can do lots of things.

In my party we use the vitality/wound system.

Instead of hp you get vitality points and wounds points that are the same with your constitution score.

The critical hits go directly to your wound points, but the crits are not multiplied.

So a warhammer would do 1d10 damage directly to the wound points, and if it is enough to drop him to 0 wound points (constitution) he dies.

Also being helpess in 5e is attack with advantage and if it hits it Auto crits, so basically covers almost everything regarding instakills.

Search google for vitality/wound for 3.5 e

Seconding Vitality/Wounds. Marked improvement over HP in my view, but YMMV.