Befriending demons?

[LentilNinja]

I've been researching the Fiendbinder PrC (ToM), but one glaring thing about it annoys me. Every time I command a fiend, theres a chance they'll resist me. To get around this issue, I've thought about befriending them. Fluff aside, a DM may not be happy with me just rolling Diplomacy until it works. Would the Leadership feat help for this, or are there other ways of doing this?

P.S: Not interested in "Mother Cyst".

[atemu1234]

Check out the Diplomancer builds out there. May it help you on your quest.

[Citrakayah]

The Abyss is generally unpleasant for demons on the bottom of the power ranking. Perhaps you can appeal to their self-interest to argue that they're better off serving you for as long as possible, since you don't torture them for personal amusement?

[Jowgen]

Is fiendbinder Demon specific? If not, then you'll likely be better-served with Devils from the 9 Hells of Baator. Other than being willing to do anything they can to get you to sign your soul over to them, they are a perfectly reasonable bunch that you are much more likely to Diplomacy into going along with what you want, provided there is something (i.e. souls) in it for them

[Crake]

You should really discuss it with your DM. The playground could give you hundreds of ways to do it, but ultimately, if your DM doesn't want you making friends with them, you wont be. If you express your interest to your DM, he can at least be open to the idea when you start trying it.

[LentilNinja]

Check out the Diplomancer builds out there. May it help you on your quest.
I'll give them a look. I like the Diplomat role, anyway.


The Abyss is generally unpleasant for demons on the bottom of the power ranking. Perhaps you can appeal to their self-interest to argue that they're better off serving you for as long as possible, since you don't torture them for personal amusement?
Valid point. Should they be with me long enough, perhaps that'll persuade them.


Is fiendbinder Demon specific? If not, then you'll likely be better-served with Devils from the 9 Hells of Baator. Other than being willing to do anything they can to get you to sign your soul over to them, they are a perfectly reasonable bunch that you are much more likely to Diplomacy into going along with what you want, provided there is something (i.e. souls) in it for them
They are specific, and I believe and I don't think any devils come into it until later level in the class. I could still get some Planar Ally shenanigans with devils though, I think.



You should really discuss it with your DM. The playground could give you hundreds of ways to do it, but ultimately, if your DM doesn't want you making friends with them, you wont be. If you express your interest to your DM, he can at least be open to the idea when you start trying it.
I'm unsure if the DM would want me to or not, but if I found a way to do it through feats or skills or classes I'm sure it'd be allowed since he understands I coulda spent them on other means.

[Red Fel]

Now, when you say "befriending (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnfzt-MNYE)" demons...

In all seriousness, I agree with the suggestion of appealing to their self-interest. In fact, you may be better off with demons than devils - demons will be more upfront about the fact that they will betray you if given half the chance, whereas devils will lull you into believing that they will honor anything more than the letter of the agreement.

That said, even if demons - or devils - agree to work with you rather than resist you at every turn, they are still corruptive creatures of pure evil. If they're not resisting you, it's likely only because they're either (1) biding their time to wait for a moment of weakness, (2) using you as a pawn to further their agendas, or (3) attempting to gradually corrupt you. It's very hard to say that you have a demon who willingly works with you, even out of genuine friendship, who doesn't have his own personal designs on you.

[Fouredged Sword]

The biggest sticking point you are likely to run into is that they are beings of pure chaos and evil. They REALLY don't like serving someone. They will serve when forced, but almost never willingly. When put in a position under someone, they WILL plot to take the top spot.

One thought is to get the feat Planer Touchstone (COE to get the earth domain granted ability) and the spell mineralize warrior. It is a spell that applies a template that forces the target to serve you for a year. You can command your demon minion to accept the spell (removing their save) and boom, willing servant for a year. Once that year is over, drain their HD with negative levels until they have half your HD, then rebuke them with rebuke earth creature for a more permanent control.

They get some good DR and str/con boosts out of it as well.

[LentilNinja]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]In all seriousness, I agree with the suggestion of appealing to their self-interest. In fact, you may be better off with demons than devils - demons will be more upfront about the fact that they will betray you if given half the chance, whereas devils will lull you into believing that they will honor anything more than the letter of the agreement.

That said, even if demons - or devils - agree to work with you rather than resist you at every turn, they are still corruptive creatures of pure evil. If they're not resisting you, it's likely only because they're either (1) biding their time to wait for a moment of weakness, (2) using you as a pawn to further their agendas, or (3) attempting to gradually corrupt you. It's very hard to say that you have a demon who willingly works with you, even out of genuine friendship, who doesn't have his own personal designs on you.

I don't blame them for wanting to kill my character and take advantage, since I'm sure my character would do the same :smallbiggrin: But these demons are bound to be through Fiendbinding, and prior to my knowledge, unable to betray me by themselves.


One thought is to get the feat Planer Touchstone (COE to get the earth domain granted ability) and the spell mineralize warrior. It is a spell that applies a template that forces the target to serve you for a year. You can command your demon minion to accept the spell (removing their save) and boom, willing servant for a year. Once that year is over, drain their HD with negative levels until they have half your HD, then rebuke them with rebuke earth creature for a more permanent control.

They get some good DR and str/con boosts out of it as well.

I'm unfamiliar with how Planar Touchstone works. I'll look into it.

[Fouredged Sword]

It is a feat you can take that has many options. One of them basically grants you a domain power. The earth domain allows you to rebuke earth creatures and have 2x your HD of creatures serving you so long as they have the earth subtype.

Mineralize creature applies a template that grants the earth subtype to a creature on top of forcing them to serve you for a year.