Deciding between wizard and EK

[PotatoGolem]

Hi everyone, long-time lurker but first-time poster needs help making a character. We're starting a new homebrew campaign, and I'm torn between wizard and eldritch knight. General idea is a super-educated adventurer/hero type- he explores ancient ruins, fights horrors, learns things (and gets bards to sing of his exploits). I want him to be good in combat in a flashy way but also useful outside of combat.

There's two other players, an arcane trickster and (probably) a sorcerer. 34-point buy (but no stats over 15), get the Lucky feat for free, start level 2. We're unlikely to get beyond level 12ish. I've been thinking of three possible routes, but I'm having a hard time choosing:

1) Variant human EK, take ritual caster.
2) Mostly EK, take a 1 or 2-level dip in diviner for (maybe) portent and access to all those juicy level one out-of-combat spells. If this is a good idea, when should I take those levels?
3) Straight up wizard. Probably diviner or evoker. If I want to basically focus on evocation and divination, which of the two is better?

[Madfellow]

General idea is a super-educated adventurer/hero type- he explores ancient ruins, fights horrors, learns things (and gets bards to sing of his exploits). I want him to be good in combat in a flashy way but also useful outside of combat.

There's two other players, an arcane trickster and (probably) a sorcerer. 34-point buy (but no stats over 15), get the Lucky feat for free, start level 2. We're unlikely to get beyond level 12ish. I've been thinking of three possible routes, but I'm having a hard time choosing:

1) Variant human EK, take ritual caster.
2) Mostly EK, take a 1 or 2-level dip in diviner for (maybe) portent and access to all those juicy level one out-of-combat spells. If this is a good idea, when should I take those levels?
3) Straight up wizard. Probably diviner or evoker. If I want to basically focus on evocation and divination, which of the two is better?

Sounds like Eldritch Knight is the way to go. 34 point buy, though? And free Luck? :smalleek: Such power! If you want to take a couple levels of wizard, you should do it after level 6.

[Totema]

With a point buy that ludicrously high, slightly-MAD options start to shine a bit more. Go for EK I say!

[Madfellow]

With a point buy that ludicrously high, slightly-MAD options start to shine a bit more. Go for EK I say!

I don't think MAD is really an issue in 5th, as far as I can tell. The ability score caps and bounded accuracy mean that most characters will have at least +2 in multiple ability scores and won't necessarily need much more than that.

34 points plus Lucky is nuts, though.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Well, what do you want to do with your character? Did you want to throw down with spells, or swords?

If you want more magic, go EK3/Wiz-Everything Else. Reverse that if you want to stab more often. Hell, I'd recommend just taking Mountain Dwarf Wizard for a spin. Free armor!

[PotatoGolem]

Cool, thanks guys. Seems like EK is the way to go, at least for a while. Haha I agree that we're starting strong- it's a small group, and the DM wants us to able to have big fights from the beginning without always feeling like we're going to die.

[silveralen]

EK is probably more the action hero type. If you aren't going past lvl 12, you could probably do EK 5-6 and WIZ 6-7, for a good mix of magic and swords.

Of course, that means limited magic the first couple level, and no rituals till a fair way through.

An alternative that I only suggest because of the big point buy might be FTR/SORC. You can take ritual caster early, and you gain access to fun things like quicken spell later on. You can still go EK early to get a few more caster levels for slots, or possibly go BM and stick with rituals till you MC. Less casting power, but manuevers on short rest+spells on long rest, and being able to use both in the same turn with quicken spell makes for a very action hero esque character. You'd also get enhance ability with sorc, something I enjoy on my gishes that wizard lacks.

[Person_Man]

My personal opinion:

Eldritch Knight is good at making a lot of attacks, and has a very small number of spells, that scale very poorly, from a very limited (but useful) list. If that's what you want, play strait EK.

Wizards can be many different things, depending on spells you select. Blaster, minions, utility, save or lose, illusions, sage, etc. However, they are usually not particularly good front liners in this edition. I would say that Evoker is more useful/powerful then Diviner, though I would strongly encourage you to look at Abjuration as well.

If you want to multi-class, then I suggest Fighter 2/Wizard 18. Fighter gets you AC 21 (heavy armor, shield, +1 AC from Fighting Style), and Action Surge so that you can go nova and cast two spells once per Short Rest. Wizard for everything else.

[bloodshed343]

My personal suggestion is cleric 2/wizard 18. This gives you an armored caster who can frontline if necessary. Lore clerics have great features for the educated types, and if you're playing a brainiac you need int and wis anyway. Plus, you'll need a healer and someone with wisdom (perception).

[Ashrym]

Could go with a blade warlock or a valor bard to split the difference too. That's some combat and magic closer to the eldritch knight style.

Jack-of-all-trades bonus will apply to knowledge checks for the educated feeling (one does not need exceptional intelligence to be educated and vice-versa), and fluff is heroics like in stories and tales. That sounds like what you are describing.

If education is important, wizards, knowledge clerics, and lore bards have more of that feel, imo, or anyone with a sage background.

A Lore Bard with sage background and expertise in history, religion, arcana, and nature tends to be the higher end of learning. A rogue with sage background as well.

You could always make a variant human, sage background, 1st level rogue, history expertise, arcana expertise, ritual caster feat, and advance forward as an eldritch knight moving forward.

There are plenty of options for the general concept. What else do you see yourself doing?

[Bohemond]

I am more or less in the same situation. I am playing a Mountain Dwarf Fighter 2 with an excellent set of ability scores (Str 20, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 12, Dex 11, Cha 11) and I plan to take the Eldritch Knight route. Our gaming group is rather small, and the rest of the party is made by a Hill Dwarf Cleric and a Variant Human Rogue, so by taking some Wizard levels I could fill both the melee frontliner and the arcanist niches. I just don't know at which level it would be best to switch to Wizard, I was thinking Ftr 12 Wiz 8 could be a good compromise...but what could be a good jumping point?

[unwise]

From the OPs description, I would suggest considering Bard. I play a bard based on Indiana Jones, I have great lore skills, a bit of survival and disarm traps too. I kept Dex and Int as my main stats as I use divination spells in my spell slots so don't need a high charisma. I use the spells to read ancient languages, identify items, speak to the dead and find lost lore.

On top of that, I actually fight decently if not exceptionally. It also makes great use of the high points buy option. This way you can boast about your own exploits effectively too.

In my game, I traded in some of the bardic powers that did not fit and archologist for extra access and spell slots for divination spells. I did not really need Song of Rest or Inspiration, despite the fact they are powerful.

[Madfellow]

I am more or less in the same situation. I am playing a Mountain Dwarf Fighter 2 with an excellent set of ability scores (Str 20, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 12, Dex 11, Cha 11) and I plan to take the Eldritch Knight route. Our gaming group is rather small, and the rest of the party is made by a Hill Dwarf Cleric and a Variant Human Rogue, so by taking some Wizard levels I could fill both the melee frontliner and the arcanist niches. I just don't know at which level it would be best to switch to Wizard, I was thinking Ftr 12 Wiz 8 could be a good compromise...but what could be a good jumping point?

As I said earlier, I would suggest switching after level 6. At that point you have your second attack and a second ASI/feat

[Bohemond]

As I said earlier, I would suggest switching after level 6. At that point you have your second attack and a second ASI/feat

It makes sense. We just hit level 3 so I am now about to select my first few spells and cantrips. Shield is a no-brainer, and it is probably going to eat up all my spell slots for quite a bit. Find Familiar (Owl) is also very attractive to add versatility, grab advantage in combat and for RP opportunities in general, to be replaced as soon as I can get it via ritual magic (although, by RAW, it seems that I would be forced to replace it with an Evo/Abj spell, likely Protection from Good/Evil). I'll probably have to go with the iconic Magic Missile, given that the other evocation spells don't work well with my poor save DC and attack modifier. Firebolt and Shocking Grasp for cantrips look good enough.