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View Full Version : Player Help 3.5 Gestalt Help: Unarmed Swordsage



sage20500
2014-12-11, 02:39 AM
Ok, so the game that I was currently playing with this character recently lost two players, so the DM has decided that instead of trying to find 2 more people to replace them, or add in two DM pc's, that he's just going to allow myself and the two remaining players to adjust our characters to be gestalted and continue the campaign from there. As of now one player is doing a wildshape ranger/druid, the other is thinking of adding Artificer onto her base rogue character. My character was currently an Unarmed twfing brawler, (Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy City Brawler Barbarian 1, Battle Dancer 1, Commander Fighter 1, Unarmed Swordsage 1, with later on prestige classing 5 levels of frostrager,) The idea was to try and punch people as much as she can because she is being played as a light hearted wandering brawler who when angered can be very deadly. Now that I'm gestalting I'm looking at having one side be Swordsage with about 2 levels of warblade mixed in at times when the other tree is not getting a BaB bonus, and about 2-3 levels of Master of the Nine so I can get dual stance. The other side at the moment the only thing I have is 1 level in Lion Totem Barbarian, a level in Battledancer, and 2 levels in chaotic monk with the style that gives me some of the required feats for master of the nine, or else overwhelming attack for power attack and improved bullrush. Aside from the 5 levels of frostrager I still want to take, I have no idea what else I should look into mixing into this class, as of now psychic warrior and totemist have both seemed very interesting, and I've also considered going more into barbarian or fighter... but I'm just not sure what would gel well with this character build.

Second question, since I'm actually going fully into Swordsage I've looked more closely into the maneuvers, and have decided that I want to specialize in Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and possibly diamond mind and feral tiger. The big draw i'm seeing is that a lot of the Shadow Hand and Stone Dragon maneuvers allow for ability damage, which in the last game I was playing I got to see first hand how devastating that can be, especially dex, con, and str damage. When it comes to swordsage's, is it better to try and actually buff up your ability to make multiple attacks per round, or is it a better idea to instead rely more on the maneuvers and instead only attack once a round but deal a lot of ability damage?

So here is my character, I'm playing a Magic Blooded Unseelie Fey Human, no wings, and low light vision only. My stats are 13 Str, 19 Dex, 12 Con, 18 Int, 11 Wis, and 23 Cha, with all of my ability increases going into Dex and Cha. I'm using the Winter Unseelie Fey aspect so any non fey creature within 5ft of me is taking my cha mod as a negative to their saving throws, which is actually the only reason why I'm still looking at the maneuvers that require a wis or str dc, since my Cha as a negative is about the same as having a high Str or Wis mod. My high cha mod is the reason why I took the level of battledancer, so that I could add my cha to my ac, and if I take the monk levels I'm planning on picking up the Kung Fu Genius feat so that I can add my int to ac as well. The flip side is that I'm very hesitant to take either Psychic Warrior or Totemist because I have both a low wis and a low con score, and I'm not sure what a good score for those classes might be.

House rules that the group is using is that we get +1 to 2 ability scores every 4th level, and we get a feat every even level, but we're not allowed to take flaws. All official material is allowed, except for homebrew and third party. No pathfinder allowed.

For feats, my character currently has Nymph's Kiss, Dreadful Rage, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Versatile Unarmed Strike, and Shadow Blade. Those feats are pretty much set in stone.

Any help you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated!

sage20500
2014-12-11, 03:04 AM
Now that I think about it, would bard, binder, or marshal be a pretty good class to combine with my build? I could always change the race to Silverbrow Human, the DM would allow me to do that since I'm already having to redo skill points as it is.

Nightraiderx
2014-12-11, 03:10 PM
Yea, just use bard, that way you can use dragonfire Inspiration to get 1d6 cold damage on your fists.
You still get light armor proficiency. Ask your DM if you can use Ascetic Mage so you can have cha to AC and stack the bonus.

There's a large debate but some DM's don't let you use TWF with just unarmed strikes. if your DM is allowing you anyways then that's fine.
What is your current ECL? You say your feats are set in stone but I think you could get better mileage out of Ascetic Mage and Dragon Fire Inspiration Feats
and also fit the style of a cold rager? and then here's a chance to dip a level in rage mage and get to cast bard buffs while raging.

sage20500
2014-12-11, 03:56 PM
I believe my ecl is 4? The character is level 4 with 2 other level 4 pcs. Feat wise, dreadful wrath is a region feat so if i want it it has to be taken at level 1. Nymphs kiss was being taken for the extra skill points and bonus to cha skills since im the parties face.two weapon fighting and improved unarmed strike are both granted as class feats so i cant change those. (City brawler barbarian grants both at level 1.) Shadow blade was to add my dex to damage to make up for low strength, and versatile unarmed strike was mainly there to get around dr issues so i can probably change that, the issue is that the dm hasnt said if hell allow us to replace feats we already have picked. So until he says otherwise im unable to change current feats X). That being, dragonfire bard sounds hilariously fun.

sage20500
2014-12-12, 02:27 AM
So I'm actually thinking of nixing the frostrager as well as possibly the barbarian parts of the build since it seems that aside from the occasional charge once or twice every encounter, I'm not going to be full attacking all that much since I'll be more keen on using the standard action maneuvers; so all of the extra attacks are no seeming slightly redundant. Compared to bard, what are peoples opinions of Dragon-fire Shaman? I guess since I have the swordsage part of the gestalt build supplying me with most of my offence, I'm looking at using the other side to supply either party buff's or self buff's that hopefully at best do not require any actions, though at worst I could live with it being a standard action to activate if it would last for a long time. So at the moment my opening 4 levels on the non swordsage side are Battledancer 1, Cobra Strike Chaotic Monk 1 (Dodge as my feats for master of nine prereqs), Cleric 1 (Darkness and time domains, though I now need to think of a reason for why a deity less cleric would have those two domains) and 1 level of Marshal for the awesomeness of that minor aura. So that gives me about 16 levels to mess around with Bard/Dragon-fire Shaman From the looks of things... I also found the Dragon Lord PRC which also looks very interesting...

Opinions?

Oh and last question, theoretically if I had levels in Dragon Shaman, levels in Dragon Lord, and the draconic aura feat, am I still only allowed to have 1 aura up at a time?

Nightraiderx
2014-12-16, 10:52 AM
take bard, learn song of the white raven feat, swift action DFI have ice damage on your weapon.
Dragonfire Shaman honestly is a weak class, I would go with a Dragonfire Adept, get a nice breath weapon when you can't hit with your weapon
and slowly turn into a dragon.

NotScaryBats
2014-12-16, 12:32 PM
Dip a level of Marshal and grab Motivate Dexterity for you and all your allies to get +6 (23 Cha, right?) to initiative and all Dex-based skill checks. You can make 'em hide and move silently better, and then ambush foes really easily like that, which I've always found very cool. It can always be on, too.

Bard with DFI is a great option.

As a Fey, you could get the Charming the Arrow feat for +Dex to bow attacks if you feel the need to have a ranged option / have an open feat, but that's probably not a big issue for you.

Magma Armor0
2014-12-16, 02:39 PM
Ive had success with a swift ambusher (scout+rogue)/unarmed swordsage gestalt. Gloom razor feat sets up scout really well. Shadow hand can flank for days.