Optimize Against Evil...maybe?

[StoneCipher]

I'm looking to make a Paladin...or Paladin-like Cleric. I originally thought to optimize smite, but that's a one trick pony and thematically boring after a while.

Point is I'm making an NPC that will be the definition of badass against evil. His personality is bordering the line of LG and he will do what it takes to exterminate evil in the name of Heironeous. He is resourceful and does not believe in giving evil a fair fight.

So, is it WORTH digging up the feats, spells, and items that give you just a little bit of extra oomph against evil, or would smite alone do the trick?

I somewhat want to actively nerf his abilities against anything but evil. He's not a cop and cares not for a thief stealing some coin. He's after big game.

[Manly Man]

What version of the game are you playing? If it's 3.5, you could always be a Crusader from Tome of Battle. They're called Paladin 2.0 for a reason.

[StoneCipher]

What version of the game are you playing? If it's 3.5, you could always be a Crusader from Tome of Battle. They're called Paladin 2.0 for a reason.

I am playing 3.5, but I don't know if I want to go crusader for a couple reasons.

1)It may end up being too well rounded and powerful. This is an NPC we are talking about, after all.
2)It may be better than a Paladin, but it is not quite thematically a Paladin.

[Xerlith]

Shining Blade of Heironeous.


In all seriousness now, take a look at the Ordained Champion. A great class for martially-inclined clerics and such. Or you may straight up refluff RKV (swap Hide for Balance, swap Shadow Hand for Iron Heart, throw the Armored Stealth out the window) and make him a Paladin4/Crusader1/RKV.
Not too powerful, but flavorful and heavy-handed.

[Manly Man]

Honestly, the main reason I'd suggested the Crusader is because, even though it does have a Smite ability all its own, the Devoted Spirit maneuvers it has have a couple alignment-related gems in them, and the more hard-hitting maneuvers, such as the Mountain Hammer line, can be fluffed as a smiting ability themselves. If you don't want to make him too deadly, build him defensively, mostly focusing on things like Devoted Spirit's healing maneuvers, Stone Dragon on the whole, with as little White Raven as possible if you want him to go solo. If he's going to have allies, swap out what I said about Stone Dragon and White Raven with the previous statement.

True, it is more powerful than a normal Paladin. However, it's still one character, and one character can be beaten easily enough. He's not a Wizard or a CoDzilla, after all. He'll still be tough enough, though, to be a recurring character to have fun with throughout the campaign.

Alternately, what you can try doing is making a Paladin using Pathfinder's version. Smite works much better there, and their abilities are more well-made, so they're not going to be so incredibly unremarkable as the 3.5 Paladin.

[StoneCipher]

Ordained Champion would definitely be the obvious choice if I were to go a battle cleric.

I'm just trying to weigh out if a massive Smite evil would be more or less effective than a multi-faceted approach.

If I use the guy seldom enough, it could be exciting to have smite bot 3000 appear every now and then to do a smite FMV. But, if I want to use the guy more, I'd have to have a few more tricks up his sleeve to make him not look like a total wimp when he's not smiting.

I'll take a much more detailed look at Crusader when I get home, maybe I need to come at it a different way since the last time I looked at crusader, I was focusing on making a PC.

And, to circle back and clarify, I am looking solely on if there is enough x bonus against evil content to warrant building a character around that. Would a solid anti-evil build potentially be better than a normal all purpose build when it comes to killing evil?

[Manly Man]

Ordained Champion would definitely be the obvious choice if I were to go a battle cleric.

I'm just trying to weigh out if a massive Smite evil would be more or less effective than a multi-faceted approach.

If I use the guy seldom enough, it could be exciting to have smite bot 3000 appear every now and then do to a smite FMV. But, if I want to use the guy more, I'd have to have a few more tricks up his sleeve to make him not look like a total wimp when he's not smiting.

Hence the Crusader suggestion. He can do a lot of things, and is durable enough that having him appear more isn't out of the question.

EDIT: Was already writing writing this post when you made your own edit. Sorry if this was making me sound kind of pushy.

[The Viscount]

If you want melee vs evil, consider Stalker of Kharash from BoED. It gets favored enemy (evil) and scent vs them, and combined with the Nemesis feat you've got some serious anti-evil. If you want to go the righteous fury route, Hellreaver from FCII is pretty fun, since it has class features that refresh by encounter.

[StoneCipher]

If you want melee vs evil, consider Stalker of Kharash from BoED. It gets favored enemy (evil) and scent vs them, and combined with the Nemesis feat you've got some serious anti-evil. If you want to go the righteous fury route, Hellreaver from FCII is pretty fun, since it has class features that refresh by encounter.

The stalker idea sounds neat, since this guy is already a green beret of sorts. He goes to outer regions and scouts out potential threats and deals with them if he can or reports them if he cant.

[Khedrac]

It might also be worth glancing at Hellreavers from Fiendish Codex II - yes they are specifically anti-evil outsiders, but it's still a good class.

[Kelb_Panthera]

... you could always be a Crusader from Tome of Battle. They're called Paladin 2.0 for a reason.

Yeah, because people don't know how to build paladins well. I -like- ToB as much as anyone but this, and its corolaries monk-swordsage and warblade-fighter, always irk me. The worst part is that paladin-crusader is the least true of the three.

Anyway, there are a fair number of options for a warrior against evil to gird himself against evil in general but it's usually better to specialize in combating a specific type of evil. What kind of evil does your NPC specialize in fighting, if any?

[atemu1234]

Ah, Ordained Champion. How I feared the world had forgotten about you.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

I'm going to second Stalker of Kharash; take a look at the builds here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5029.0) for some good ideas.

[Red Fel]

As others have mentioned, Ordained Champion is particularly good for this, both in terms of its requirements (you have to worship Heironeous or Hextor, so it fits your guy nicely) and because of what it actually does - it gives you something to do with spell slots, while still making you entirely adept at face smashing.

Another option I happen to like, for the Smite-inclined, is the Fist of Raziel. It's an extremely LG-oriented class (it specifically requires you to swear allegiance to the Tome Archons), gives you 9/10 spellcasting progression, and gives you 5 extra uses of Smite. It also augments them - any Smite you use will gain a bunch of useful benefits, turning them from just extra damage to a whole lot of extra damage to multiple targets. It also allows you to treat any weapon you wield as a Holy weapon, even when you're not using Smite. It's a must-have for any Smite-happy build.

As an aside, it's a pity you're doing this in 3.5 instead of PF. PF Pallies get a bit of an upgrade when it comes to Smite.

[StoneCipher]

Yeah, because people don't know how to build paladins well. I -like- ToB as much as anyone but this, and its corolaries monk-swordsage and warblade-fighter, always irk me. The worst part is that paladin-crusader is the least true of the three.

Anyway, there are a fair number of options for a warrior against evil to gird himself against evil in general but it's usually better to specialize in combating a specific type of evil. What kind of evil does your NPC specialize in fighting, if any?

Well, if he were to specialize, (I'm still in the formation stages of his story) I'd have to say he'd specialize against evil spellcasters, particularly arcane. His thought process is that those types beget more evil into the world and killing them is the simplest way to stop evil from spreading.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, if he were to specialize, (I'm still in the formation stages of his story) I'd have to say he'd specialize against evil spellcasters, particularly arcane. His thought process is that those types beget more evil into the world and killing them is the simplest way to stop evil from spreading.

Tossing a level of Ranger in here with the ACF Favored Enemy:Arcanist wouldnt be a horrible idea and would synergize with Stalker of Kharash.

If Divine Counterspell wasnt awful i would recommend it, but it kinda sucks.

[herrhauptmann]

If you want melee vs evil, consider Stalker of Kharash from BoED. It gets favored enemy (evil) and scent vs them, and combined with the Nemesis feat you've got some serious anti-evil. If you want to go the righteous fury route, Hellreaver from FCII is pretty fun, since it has class features that refresh by encounter.

I'm going suggest a Harper Paragon who also gets Favored Enemy Evil.
It's a more Ranger style character than the Rogue-ish Stalker which doesn't actually require a level in ranger, and it boosts casting in more than just Ranger; making it ideal for a Good ranger-based gish. Or ranger/cleric multiclass.

Players Guide to Faerun 181. Feat prereqs: Sacred Vow, Vow of Obedience. Favored Enemy: Certain races/organizations. Doesn't seem to actually require a Good alignment.

Beyond Nemesis, there's also Favored Power Attack (Complete adventurer?).

[Angelalex242]

For Optimization against Evil, Let me present to you the Fist of Raziel.

Clr 1/Pal 6/Fist 10, in that order. The Fist has loads of yummy anti evil stuff and the spellcasting of a 10th level cleric, which is far superior to what a Paladin normally gets.

Tack the Saint Template on, and you have the character I mentioned in another thread. If he's an Aasimar.

[ericgrau]

If you want to be lolzy gimped against non-evil then have a lower stat in whatever doesn't power your anti-evil abilities. So merely an ok str. Be careful not to make yourself too sub-optimal in general though, as str does help against evil too. But if you can stack on many cha related anti-evil abilities for example it could be worth it.

Also makes you a superb evil-detector device,since divinations can be fooled. Foe died? => evil. Not a scratch on foe? => not evil. Lawful good demon => oops sorry, pesky [evil] sub-type. Frequently suggest the "smite test" on NPCs, especially NPC party members. Can't be too careful about secret villains.