Any way to make Walker in the Waste work with the Desert Flame discipline?

[ILM]

I'm refining a character idea I had lying about, and I thought that it'd be cool if I could make, say, a martial Desert Flame user who was also a Walker in the Waste. Unfortunately WitW advances divine casting which means RKV, only RKVs need a Crusader entry and Crusaders don't get Desert Flame. I do note the adaptation of RKV mentions changing the requirements, and if necessary that might be what I'll do, but I wondered if there was maybe another way to make it work.

[Fouredged Sword]

Walker in the waste is a PRC that is 10 levels long and in hard competition with your RKV levels. Both are 10/10 PRC's and I think the best you can do is sneak in with 18 levels of PRC's.

Early entry allows you to enter WiTW with 1 level of cleric, yes, you can infact enter the PRC at level 2. That leaves 9 levels to be a initiator. The best I can do is to pack on as much master of the nine as you can get away with using unarmed swordsage as a base. I think

Cleric 1 / WiTW 10 / swordsage 2 / Master of Nine 5 / Uncanny Trickster 2 (or legacy champion) is your best bet. Not an ideal mix though. Better to focus ETHER on WiTW or TOB.

[WhamBamSam]

Even without the other concerns, WitW might not mesh well with a martial build outside of gestalt. That said, Sha'irs are divine casters as well as arcane, so you could do a Sha'ir WitW/JPM, and Martial Study/Stance feats are always an option.

[Troacctid]

Walker requires divine casting, but it advances any kind of casting. You can easily qualify for it as an arcane caster with the Arcane Disciple feat.

However, I believe your concerns may be moot, as you can't take both prestige classes at the same time anyway.

[WhamBamSam]

Walker in the waste is a PRC that is 10 levels long and in hard competition with your RKV levels. Both are 10/10 PRC's and I think the best you can do is sneak in with 18 levels of PRC's.

Early entry allows you to enter WiTW with 1 level of cleric, yes, you can infact enter the PRC at level 2. That leaves 9 levels to be a initiator. The best I can do is to pack on as much master of the nine as you can get away with using unarmed swordsage as a base. I think

Cleric 1 / WiTW 10 / swordsage 2 / Master of Nine 5 / Uncanny Trickster 2 (or legacy champion) is your best bet. Not an ideal mix though. Better to focus ETHER on WiTW or TOB.How does early WitW entry work? DMM Heighten shenanigans won't get you there, as you need actual 3rd level spells (since you need 3 spells off of either the Sand or Thirst domain).


Walker requires divine casting, but it advances any kind of casting. You can easily qualify for it as an arcane caster with the Arcane Disciple feat.

However, I believe your concerns may be moot, as you can't take both prestige classes at the same time anyway.Arcane Disciple spells are still cast as arcane as far as I can tell. Southern Magician probably works though (and would indeed probably be necessary for my Sha'ir idea, which makes it no more efficient than Sorcerer or Wizard).

[Jeff the Green]

How does early WitW entry work? DMM Heighten shenanigans won't get you there, as you need actual 3rd level spells (since you need 3 spells off of either the Sand or Thirst domain).

Arcane Disciple spells are still cast as arcane as far as I can tell. Southern Magician probably works though (and would indeed probably be necessary for my Sha'ir idea, which makes it no more efficient than Sorcerer or Wizard).

There are a few ways, all depending on the fact that it doesn't require all the spells to be from the same domain. Cleric with Sand and Thirst domains (no deity offers them together, but you can be a cleric of the principle "everyone should die a painful death in the desert") with Mad Faith and Spontaneous Domain Casting should do it (actually, that might work with a single domain). Spontaneous Domain Casting and Versatile Caster should work too. Also that FR feat that lets you cast a few cantrips plus Precocious Apprentice plus Southern Magician.

[Rebel7284]

How does early WitW entry work? DMM Heighten shenanigans won't get you there, as you need actual 3rd level spells (since you need 3 spells off of either the Sand or Thirst domain).

It's unclear from the wording if all the spells need to come from the same domain. Assuming they do not, cleric 3 is a valid entry.

I like the flavor of the character, but it seems difficult to get in enough initiator levels. The best you can probably do is: Swordsage 4/X1/Ur Priest 2/WitW 10/More swordsage or Master of 9.

Ideally X1 gets you a few spells from those two domains as Ur Priests only get one of the spells naturally. Silly lack of domains!

[WhamBamSam]

There are a few ways, all depending on the fact that it doesn't require all the spells to be from the same domain. Cleric with Sand and Thirst domains (no deity offers them together, but you can be a cleric of the principle "everyone should die a painful death in the desert") with Mad Faith and Spontaneous Domain Casting should do it (actually, that might work with a single domain). Spontaneous Domain Casting and Versatile Caster should work too. Also that FR feat that lets you cast a few cantrips plus Precocious Apprentice plus Southern Magician.
It's unclear from the wording if all the spells need to come from the same domain. Assuming they do not, cleric 3 is a valid entry.

I like the flavor of the character, but it seems difficult to get in enough initiator levels. The best you can probably do is: Swordsage 4/X1/Ur Priest 2/WitW 10/More swordsage or Master of 9.

Ideally X1 gets you a few spells from those two domains as Ur Priests only get one of the spells naturally. Silly lack of domains!The same domain interpretation seemed the more likely parsing of the requirement to me, but fair enough.

@Rebel: Getting both a good fort save and a spell list without being a divine caster is a tricky proposition. Unless the Savage Bard list can pick the necessary spells up for you, you're probably out of luck. Also, Ur-Priest may screw with your ability to use Southern Magician, so even if the class is arcane, the requirement to cast the spells as divine might make that not work.

[ILM]

Wow, I totally forgot that WitW advanced any casting. This solves a lot of my problems! Or does it?

Human Wizard 4/Swordsage 1/JPM 2/WitW 10/JPM +3, assuming I can get Arcane Disciple and Southern Magician (plus Heat Endurance) on soon enough, gets me (*runs the numbers*) CL16, IL13 and BAB 12!

Holy crap that sucks. Lol, I'd practically be as well off just taking the Dry Lich template. Human Lich Wiz 3/SS 2/ JPM 10 gets me CL11, IL13 and BAB 12. Damn.

edit: strategy change: can you get an item granting you a high-level maneuver, and UMD the IL requirement?
edit2: looks like you can:
Emulate a Class Feature
Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.

[Rebel7284]

Planar Touchstone - Catalogues of Enlightment higher order ability will allow you to be able to cast spells from the domain (with some limitations). If you can pull it off, the Ur Priest Entry gives you 9th level spells and IL 13. BAB doesn't matter very much if you go with DMM persist and get yourself all-day Divine Power.

[Troacctid]

Arcane Disciple spells are still cast as arcane as far as I can tell. Southern Magician probably works though (and would indeed probably be necessary for my Sha'ir idea, which makes it no more efficient than Sorcerer or Wizard).

Oh, you're right, actually. Walker in the Waste requires the ability to cast the spells as divine spells and Arcane Disciple gives you the ability to cast them as arcane spells. You would need Southern Magician, then.


It's unclear from the wording if all the spells need to come from the same domain. Assuming they do not, cleric 3 is a valid entry.

I like the flavor of the character, but it seems difficult to get in enough initiator levels. The best you can probably do is: Swordsage 4/X1/Ur Priest 2/WitW 10/More swordsage or Master of 9.

Ideally X1 gets you a few spells from those two domains as Ur Priests only get one of the spells naturally. Silly lack of domains!

Ur-Priest only has 10 levels of casting, so your last two levels of Walker in the Waste are going to feel a little silly. Edit: you might say it's... wasteful.

[Rebel7284]

Oh, you're right, actually. Walker in the Waste requires the ability to cast the spells as divine spells and Arcane Disciple gives you the ability to cast them as arcane spells. You would need Southern Magician, then.



Ur-Priest only has 10 levels of casting, so your last two levels of Walker in the Waste are going to feel a little silly. Edit: you might say it's... wasteful.

Walker in the Waste loses 2 caster levels. Ur Priest 2/WitW 10 is exactly full progression.

[Grim Reader]

That said, Sha'irs are divine casters as well as arcane.

I am away from books, but I don't think they qualify as either?

[ILM]

I am away from books, but I don't think they qualify as either?
It's a bit unclear. They can pick arcane spells and divine spells, but it doesn't specify what they cast them as.

In general I'm a bit frustrated at 3.5e's vagueness on the topic, actually. There are a bunch of cases where you're just not told if you're casting an arcane spell, divine spell, paladin spell, wizard spell, and yet it matters for a bunch of abilities.

[WhamBamSam]

I am away from books, but I don't think they qualify as either?I'm not sure where you'd get that idea. They cast both arcane and divine spells by virtue of class features alone. That makes them an arcane spellcasting class and a divine spellcasting class. What they aren't is a prepared or spontaneous spellcasting class, as they use their own mechanic, which is powerful, but lacks the splat support of the other two.

Similarly, a Wizard 5 with the Spontaneous Divination ACF can cast both prepared and spontaneous spells by virtue of class features alone and is therefore both a prepared arcane spellcasting class and a spontaneous arcane spellcasting class.


It's a bit unclear. They can pick arcane spells and divine spells, but it doesn't specify what they cast them as.

In general I'm a bit frustrated at 3.5e's vagueness on the topic, actually. There are a bunch of cases where you're just not told if you're casting an arcane spell, divine spell, paladin spell, wizard spell, and yet it matters for a bunch of abilities.Here's the most relevant quote.

A sha'ir is capable of extraordinarily versatile spellcasting because he can use arcane spells as well as a limited selection of divine spells.Are you using arcane or divine spells respectively if you aren't using them as arcane or divine? The spells are also retrieved as either arcane or divine, and work on different rules depending on how you retrieve them (for example you can retrieve Burning Hands as either an arcane spell or a divine spell as it's both Sor/Wiz 1 and Fire 1 and there are different rules depending on how you choose to do it), and it doesn't make sense that a spell specifically retrieved as one or the other wouldn't stay that way.

Regarding the Sword of the Arcane Order thing you're referencing, there is some debate over the exact nature of the spells gained that way, but the closest thing to consensus is that the spells are Wizard spells and hence arcane. However, because the ability to cast them comes from a feat and not a class feature, I would argue that a SotAO Paladin or Ranger is not an arcane spellcasting class.