Houserules - Need help with

[Red Rubber Band]

Greetings,

So I'm looking in the future to start up a long campaign, and it'll be the first one where I use houserules. I've avoided it so far as myself and the other players are fairly new to the system* and I didn't want to make those decisions until I was more comfortable with it all.

I've started a document filled with houserules that I've shamelessly stolen from people on these boards. There will, no doubt, be a lot of the usual stuff that I'm missing or haven't covered. So if I could grab help filling it out, it would be much appreciated.

The document is here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tDOXJlPpVFiTt64cYL7To5nD8MpSTH29eomUSwwC1sM/edit?usp=sharing).

Note that I am aware of the RACSD thread and I'll either eventually add rulings from there or just give my player's a "seriously?" look if they try to pull an idiotic RAW stunt off.

Many thanks!

* New in the sense of application in an actual game.

Edit: There will probably be some formatting problems. I just copied it from a Word document and haven't touched it.

[Troacctid]

At first level 2 Craft, Profession, Perform, or Knowledge Skills receive half-ranks without spending points.

Note that Craft can be used untrained, so half a rank won't do anything.


Bonus feats can be used on any feat, subject to it fitting the character. Eg a martial feat that isn’t on the list can be used, but unless an extremely10 good reason is given a metamagic feat will not be allowed.


Instead of "fitting the character" (which is so vague a restriction as to be useless) how about "must have combat applications"? The class is Fighter, after all.

[Forrestfire]

I like this list, overall. There are a definitely a few things I'd do differently, but after a quick skim, I think the main recommendation I have is to make it so full-casting spontaneous casters aren't screwed over by a level. I'd shift the progression up one level for spell levels 2-9.

[Red Rubber Band]

Note that Craft can be used untrained, so half a rank won't do anything.

Do you have a better suggestion? It's more for individualising characters and hoping that they take up some of the, in my experience, lesser used skills (Craft and Profession).
I should add that the skills will also become class skills.


Instead of "fitting the character" (which is so vague a restriction as to be useless) how about "must have combat applications"? The class is Fighter, after all.

The people that I run with are well enough known to me that they know where the line is. However, I see your point.
I was hoping it would lead to something like them asking to take Skill Focus: Knowledge (War Tactics) or something equally as flavourful but not necessarily with "combat" application.
Any ideas?


I like this list, overall. There are a definitely a few things I'd do differently, but after a quick skim, I think the main recommendation I have is to make it so full-casting spontaneous casters aren't screwed over by a level. I'd shift the progression up one level for spell levels 2-9.

Please, by all means, throw your recommendations out there.

As I don't have a lot of experience in this area I need to read over all the relevant material, so I've still about half a page of houserules related to shields that I need to contemplate upon.
But it's all reading that helps me prepare!



Edit: Added reply to Troacctid

[sakuuya]

I'd expand the Healer's spell list--even with spontaneous casting, that class is missing a lot of spells it should have, especially noncore ones. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4079.0)'s a pretty good revised list.

[Red Rubber Band]

I'd expand the Healer's spell list--even with spontaneous casting, that class is missing a lot of spells it should have, especially noncore ones. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4079.0)'s a pretty good revised list.

Mmhmm. Expanding their list was on my to do list. Thanks for the link! I had another link somewhere with suggestions, but I think I managed to delete it by accident :smallsigh:

[Jeff the Green]

Two things. First, you say the dodge bonus from BAB stacks with the bonus you get from ranks in Tumble. You don't get such a bonus; the bonus is to Combat Expertise. Also, you don't need this rule as dodge bonuses stack with each other. Second, you say shield bonuses increase based on BAB and shield type, but don't specify how.


I'd expand the Healer's spell list--even with spontaneous casting, that class is missing a lot of spells it should have, especially noncore ones. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4079.0)'s a pretty good revised list.

That particular rule, among others (:smallwink:) seems to have been lifted from my houserules. I do indeed expand the list in that way (though minus foraging charm because I don't generally allow Dragon Magazine stuff), and have had a couple characters use it. It brings the Healer up to Tier 3/4, but certainly doesn't break anything.

[Red Rubber Band]

Two things. First, you say the dodge bonus from BAB stacks with the bonus you get from ranks in Tumble. You don't get such a bonus; the bonus is to Combat Expertise. Also, you don't need this rule as dodge bonuses stack with each other. Second, you say shield bonuses increase based on BAB and shield type, but don't specify how.

Further down in the Skills section there is a dot point that says you get +1 Dodge AC for every 5 points in Tumble. That's what that particular point means.
Ah, there we go. Dodge bonuses stack. Thanks :smallsmile:
I should probably take that part out for now. I haven't had time to go through and update that. It's more of a work in progress.


That particular rule, among others (:smallwink:) seems to have been lifted from my houserules. I do indeed expand the list in that way (though minus foraging charm because I don't generally allow Dragon Magazine stuff), and have had a couple characters use it. It brings the Healer up to Tier 3/4, but certainly doesn't break anything.

:smallwink:
I'm pretty sure I just copied your houserules wholesale :smalltongue:
Your link to the Healer list was probably the one I lost.

Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.

[Honjuden]

It says that Combat Expertise is gained at +5 BAB, but further down it says that Combat Expertise grants the bonus of Improved Feint at 8 ranks of Bluff. Was making Improved Feint available to everyone with 8 Bluff ranks and +5 BAB intentional?

[Red Rubber Band]

It says that Combat Expertise is gained at +5 BAB, but further down it says that Combat Expertise grants the bonus of Improved Feint at 8 ranks of Bluff. Was making Improved Feint available to everyone with 8 Bluff ranks and +5 BAB intentional?

Indirectly that seems to have happened. It wasn't my intention to set out and do that but I don't see a problem with it staying like that.

I'm unsure of the angle of your question so hopefully that answers it sufficiently.

[Honjuden]

I was just wondering. I am the editor for a larp, so I have had the problem of working on a set of rules over an extended period of time and realizing that I had unwittingly enabled a few things that I hadn't meant to with later rules changes.

[Red Rubber Band]

I was just wondering. I am the editor for a larp, so I have had the problem of working on a set of rules over an extended period of time and realizing that I had unwittingly enabled a few things that I hadn't meant to with later rules changes.

Ah, ok :smallbiggrin:
Many thanks for pointing it out. Luckily it was one of the "It's fine" editing problems.

[Jeff the Green]

Oh, that made me realize something: you don't need Improved Feint as you already give its benefits to everyone.

[Red Rubber Band]

Oh, that made me realize something: you don't need Improved Feint as you already give its benefits to everyone.

I do too. Thank you for picking that up.

Edit: Buuuuut.... Improved Feint gives more stuff now. Extra bonus to feint attempts and bonus damage.

[Jeff the Green]

I do too. Thank you for picking that up.

Edit: Buuuuut.... Improved Feint gives more stuff now. Extra bonus to feint attempts and bonus damage.

That seems like the sort of thing that shouldn't be "everyone gets it" like feinting before an attack or fighting a little bit more defensively or a lot more defensively but something that should be a feat you need to take.

[Red Rubber Band]

That seems like the sort of thing that shouldn't be "everyone gets it" like feinting before an attack or fighting a little bit more defensively or a lot more defensively but something that should be a feat you need to take.

Sure. That's understandable. Looking at it I can see it's something that does require at least a modicum of investment into.



Thanks for yours and everyone else's help so far. I'll be back in a few days, though may be able to check in over the weekend if I'm lucky.

[Andion Isurand]

I would give the Fighter (or any class) the overall Profession skill before specifying any unsupported Knowledge skills, since it would be more flexible and could apply to things like Profession (Navigator, Tactician, Sailor, etc) and it could be used in doing things in addition to knowing things.

I would also think about giving your fighter a bonus feat at each level so they might feel okay about using their character feats for other things. If you do this for an actual character some day, you could also try offering a scaling experiment similar to the one I drafted on my blog (here (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2014/04/fighter-feat-scaling.html)) to make an investment in combat feats a little less linear.

I would also consider using a d12 hit dice for your fighter, since your d10 paladin and d10 monk each have a means of recovering hit points outside of resting. The overall HD, BAB, Saves and Skills would still be in line with Warblades and Barbarians.

You're welcome to wade through my blog to see if any of it helps you. Feel free to leave any comments you might have and let me know how it goes.

[Kol Korran]

Hey Red Rubber Band! The document seems like an excellent work! A few small things if I may?
1) Since these are new players to the system, I suggest putting this all in a form. I suggest the following: A table, with the following columns:
- The rule as it was. (If possible with source such as page number if you have a PDF or such)
- The rule as it is now.
- Reason for the change.
- Example.

This can go a long way towards helping people deal with the changes.
2) For a campaign that may have lots of house rules and rulings, I've found it useful to put such things in either
- One file that all can have, which you update when necessary.
- A website (Our group used at times a free wiki, such as The PBworks site (http://www.pbworks.com/). The advantage about the free wiki is that you can set it up to look nice, and add all kinf of info in it, and if you have active players in such matters (Mine aren't), they can add things in themselves. It's a very easy reference. The downside is that setting up the initial wiki can be a lot of work, depending on how much you put in it. Here's an example of one such site of a campaign that didn't really launch of the ground (http://witchlingisles.pbworks.com/w/page/50238619/FrontPage) (Note that I invested quite a bit in it, you don't eally have to go nearly this far)

3) You have a lot of mechanic rules, and I'm not that good with those to give any real comment. However, about Rich' diplomacy rules: How do you make someone more friendly? You... um... roleplay it? Each person begins between being an ally (-5) to enemy (+5) unless they have some major reason to be otherwise (For example, most of the troops in the armies of the heroes in my campaign started as allies, even most of the commanders) This is as much as you can start with without being personal. As you play, I look out for "significant relationship changes"- acts that may change the nature of the bond between the characters. If such an event occurs, I monitor for a slight bit if the PC goes forth with the change, or rejects it (for positive changes), or if the PC prevents deterioration (For negative changes), and I adjust things accordingly. "Friend" or "Intimate" are what they say- they require aa change on the personal level.

For example, as you've read my log, remember the three characters (Anevia, Horgus and Aravsh) aat the start? They all started as indifferent, and changed as the party adventured with them, slowly.

4) If we're on that matter, I don't remember seeing anything about the Leadership feat. I highly suggest to roleplay this one as well, and not just grant serious game altering mechanics (cohorts and followers) because of a feat with no justification whatsoever. In my campaign the leadership feat grants bonuses for things dealing with leading lots of people (Such as some of the mass combat roles, and possibly the city management rolls, if we'll use them).

5) Just wanted to say, I really liked some of those rules- splitting the movement before and after an action, the half-BAB dodge bonus, and so on. Good work!

[SiuiS]

Do you have a better suggestion? It's more for individualising characters and hoping that they take up some of the, in my experience, lesser used skills (Craft and Profession).
I should add that the skills will also become class skills.


I usually go over their backstory and give them one gestalt level of an NPC mundane class. If the fighter wants to have had a life as a merchant, mercenary and smith before becoming an adventurer, expert covers that nicely. If the rogue or swashbuckler came from a prestigious family and resorted to scoundrelry for fun, aristocrat. Etc.

It's hard to break because the only classes that really, truly benefit from extra skill points don't get any.

[Der_DWSage]

Hm. A few more things that I noticed.

1:Improved Critical and Keen stacking could get...ridiculous. Unless you're perfectly okay with people threatening a critical hit 45% of the time, I'd say stick a hard cap on there of a 15-20 critical hit range.

2:You point out that two-weapon fighting gives a +4 bonus to hit at level 6 to counteract the penalties on light weapons, but light weapons only give a -2 penalty. (Unless I misread your later portion on two-weapon fighting.)

3:THANK YOU for combining the various ranged taxes into one feat.

4:If these are new people, actually detail out what fractional BAB and Saves are.

5:The 'Favours and trade goods' bit doesn't seem like a houserule, just general in-world advice.

6:I'm going to assume you're not using encumbrance rules, at least not after level 5. That could use a bit of detail.

7:Right, Diplomacy. Be wary of the door you're opening with the 'spend gold for a circumstance bonus' bit. Adventurers have a ridiculous amount of money compared to most people. If you're accounting for this already, then by all means.

8:Shunt all the combined skills into their own section, for ease of reading.

9:'A player may side out any one class skill for another at level 1.' I'm going to assume you mean swap out, or something similar.

10:This is more of a recommendation than a nitpick, but Intimidate checks. Allow players to get stacking circumstance bonuses on this one depending on what they do. Hitting someone when you're already in a fight won't do much, but making an intimidate check on someone after you've killed six of his friends should get a bit of a bonus. Or shaking down an Innkeeper after cracking his countertop in two. Or...you get the idea.

11:On a similar note to 10 while I'm thinking about it, have you considered using Morale mechanics for the opponents rather than 'they fight to the death' that seems to be prevalent? Making them roll on a 3d6 (For a bell curve, and more reliably brave/cowardly people) whenever something happens to shake their morale, such as a friend dying. A 7 for cowardly creatures, an 11 for normal, and a 16 for fearless ones.

[Coidzor]

Nightsticks don’t stack

In which way? You can only use a single nightstick for Divine Metamagic for any given use of DMM, but you can have multiple nightsticks and use each one in turn to stretch out your uses of turn undead for DMM? You can only have one nightstick per character?


Once you hit level 5 you don’t need to keep track of incidental expenses like lodging, food, or fodder. Unless you are shopping up market.

What about mundane ammunition? Do you have a clear and concise explanation for what up-market would constitute IC & OOC?


Favours and trade goods such gems will be more easily bartered and probably are safer to have than mounds of gold

What will this actually mean in-game? Are you going to have some standardized value gems around that won't have to deal with the rigarmarole of appraisal and people trying to stiff people who try to use them as currency? Are you going to give loot that's not coinage for the most part and so they'll have to keep that in mind when looting and tallying up their goods? Are they going to have to convert the loose coin they get into more compact currency and be charged a surcharge by moneychangers every time they go to town?


Split actual movement around a non-moving move action. Example: move 15' to a door, open it, and then go through the doorway that same round using the rest of your movement. The Spring Attack line of feats no longer exists

So you can use the rest of your move after you take a move action, but why does that mean you can no longer take a feat to move-attack-move? Why not move action that uses up part of one's movement > standard or move action that isn't movement > rest of movement left from the initial move action? You may want to consider having a low-or-no prerequisite feat like Move-By Action from M&M3e (http://www.d20herosrd.com/5-advantages).


Retraining feats is allowed

Just using the stanrdard PHBII rules for that, or...?


Weapon Focus grants +1 per 4 points of BAB (round up), max +5 at BAB +17 and +2 damage per 4 points of BAB (round down), max +10 at BAB +20

So you gain +2 bonus damage at BAB 4 rather than at BAB 1, then? I'd specify which is the case, since that feels like it might read a little bit odd.


Shield AC bonus granted by a shield increases based on BAB and shield type (to be updated with actual numbers and details)

Sounds interesting. This an original idea of yours or did you run into this one around here? If the latter, do you recall who you saw came up with it or where?


At first level 2 Craft, Profession, Perform, or Knowledge Skills receive half-ranks without spending points. These skills become class skills/

You've got a minor typo at the end here. Also, do you mean that they each receive a 0.5 rank like a cross-class skill that one invested only one skill point in by the default RAW(but not, by your houserules) or do you mean that each skill receives 2 skill ranks as 4 is the skill rank cap for first level characters and 4/2 = 2?


+1 dodge ac every five points in tumble

So you have BAB/2 = Dodge bonus to AC and Tumble Ranks/5 = Dodge bonus to AC. Do these stack or do you just take whichever is higher? Granted, I don't really see a way for Tumble-derived dodge bonus to exceed BAB-derived.

Also, is this dodge bonus to AC only received when using the Tumble skill or always-on when one is not flat-footed?


List of universal skills that do not require special training to enhance. No matter what your class is universal skills are always considered class skills

Sorry, what? Is this a placeholder? :smallconfused:


A player may side out any one class skill for another at level 1. This shows the players individuality and desired progression if he chooses to express it, with minor exceptions. A druid for instance won't be taking disable device.

So you can trade one of your class skills out for another skill making the new skill a class skill and the old skill into a cross-class skill? Why no druids taking disable device?


Bluff, Disguise, and Perform (acting) can all be used to disguise emotions.


What does disguising emotions do? :smallconfused:


An appropriate Knowledge check can often give you a +2 to some other check or roll. For example, a Knowledge (architecture and engineering) could give you a bonus to climb (now part of Athletics) a building’s wall or column and Knowledge (geography or nature) could give you a bonus to Hide and Move Silently in a forested area.

Untyped and stacks with anything or a circumstance bonus?


Rich’s Diplomacy is in effect when trying to convince someone to do something. (What about to get someone to like you?)

In the parentheses, are you talking about making a first impression?


· Gain Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1
· Flurry is a standard action

Don't monks already get Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1? Also, what happens when they full attack then, do the penalties for flurrying get reduced or do they actually get a bonus to hit or can they not get the extra attack when they're full attacking, encouraging them to always attack and move or move and attack?


Oh, that made me realize something: you don't need Improved Feint as you already give its benefits to everyone.

My thought was to make Improved Feint take a Swift action instead of a Move action and to possibly apply to more attacks than just one attack per feint.


11:On a similar note to 10 while I'm thinking about it, have you considered using Morale mechanics for the opponents rather than 'they fight to the death' that seems to be prevalent? Making them roll on a 3d6 (For a bell curve, and more reliably brave/cowardly people) whenever something happens to shake their morale, such as a friend dying. A 7 for cowardly creatures, an 11 for normal, and a 16 for fearless ones.

I've been interested in that sort of idea myself for a while now, using more morale effects, especially in combat. So you're proposing to roll 3d6 and if they're cowardly and roll a 7 or higher they run away or otherwise receive some kind of morale penalty?

[Jeff the Green]

What does disguising emotions do? :smallconfused:

That one's poached from my houserules. At least for me, it's primarily a tool for roleplaying. Someone tells you a friend died but you don't want to let on that you knew/cared about them? Bluff/Disguise/Perform. Someone's telling you something you already know but want to appear attentive and respectful? Bluff/Disguise/Perform. And opposed by Sense Motive, I suppose I should add.


My thought was to make Improved Feint take a Swift action instead of a Move action and to possibly apply to more attacks than just one attack per feint.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe make it a swift and apply to an additional attack for every 5 you beat your opponent's roll?

[Coidzor]

That one's poached from my houserules. At least for me, it's primarily a tool for roleplaying. Someone tells you a friend died but you don't want to let on that you knew/cared about them? Bluff/Disguise/Perform. Someone's telling you something you already know but want to appear attentive and respectful? Bluff/Disguise/Perform. And opposed by Sense Motive, I suppose I should add.

Ahh, ok, that makes sense. :smallsmile:


That wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe make it a swift and apply to an additional attack for every 5 you beat your opponent's roll?

Ooo~ Yesssss. :smallamused:

[ericgrau]

I've started a document filled with houserules that I've shamelessly stolen from people on these boards.
I'm so sorry.

When pulling house rules make sure it's stuff people have actually played with and said turned out well. There's a lot of good but a lot of bad and each one could get its own thread. Best to look back at all your sources and filter them. Also good to keep the house rule list short for the sake of player sanity. Though splitting it off into sections so people can skip what doesn't apply to them does help too.

The #1 rule is play nice and it is one many people follow even without being told. Games often work out well regardless this way. A million untested house rules OTOH become a big pain in the butt for the players when they get tested on them.

[Coidzor]

Also good to keep the house rule list short for the sake of player sanity. Though splitting it off into sections so people can skip what doesn't apply to them does help too.

That's the real killer I've run into. There's all kinds of niggling, random things I'd want to change, but if I just went and did them piecemeal it'd just be frustrating to organize in a coherent manner for others and even then it'd still be annoying for them to navigate.

The personal wiki idea seems the most tenable out of any largescale set of houserules, even/especially if one is basically re-writing the SRD for one's personal use with lots of deletions, additions, and alterations.

[Red Rubber Band]

Bloody hell. Thanks for all the replies. I don't think I'll get around to fully updating the document until later this week as I did some work on it over the weekend. And there's a few suggestions in here that I'll implement.

Just a quick note. Some of the more vague descriptions will be because they're meant to be hashed out between myself and the players. I'm also hoping to promote discussion when character creation comes about. I've read a fair bit on these boards so usually have some thoughts and/or links to give the players to reference against. I'm still happy for (constructive) feedback on them, even if it's a way to word it better.


I would give the Fighter (or any class) the overall Profession skill before specifying any unsupported Knowledge skills, since it would be more flexible and could apply to things like Profession (Navigator, Tactician, Sailor, etc) and it could be used in doing things in addition to knowing things.

I would also think about giving your fighter a bonus feat at each level so they might feel okay about using their character feats for other things. If you do this for an actual character some day, you could also try offering a scaling experiment similar to the one I drafted on my blog (here (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2014/04/fighter-feat-scaling.html)) to make an investment in combat feats a little less linear.

I would also consider using a d12 hit dice for your fighter, since your d10 paladin and d10 monk each have a means of recovering hit points outside of resting. The overall HD, BAB, Saves and Skills would still be in line with Warblades and Barbarians.

You're welcome to wade through my blog to see if any of it helps you. Feel free to leave any comments you might have and let me know how it goes.
I knew I forgetting something. A d12!
Thanks for the link. I'll try introduce it and other similar ideas into a one shot next year after this campaign is up and running. See how it goes. The only problem is I'd rather several different types to choose from, not just for Fighters. For example there are the dragon feats that scale... though I can't remember where I saw them.


Hey Red Rubber Band! The document seems like an excellent work! A few small things if I may?
1) Since these are new players to the system, I suggest putting this all in a form. I suggest the following: A table, with the following columns:
- The rule as it was. (If possible with source such as page number if you have a PDF or such)
- The rule as it is now.
- Reason for the change.
- Example.

This can go a long way towards helping people deal with the changes.
2) For a campaign that may have lots of house rules and rulings, I've found it useful to put such things in either
- One file that all can have, which you update when necessary.
- A website (Our group used at times a free wiki, such as The PBworks site (http://www.pbworks.com/). The advantage about the free wiki is that you can set it up to look nice, and add all kinf of info in it, and if you have active players in such matters (Mine aren't), they can add things in themselves. It's a very easy reference. The downside is that setting up the initial wiki can be a lot of work, depending on how much you put in it. Here's an example of one such site of a campaign that didn't really launch of the ground (http://witchlingisles.pbworks.com/w/page/50238619/FrontPage) (Note that I invested quite a bit in it, you don't eally have to go nearly this far)

3) You have a lot of mechanic rules, and I'm not that good with those to give any real comment. However, about Rich' diplomacy rules: How do you make someone more friendly? You... um... roleplay it? Each person begins between being an ally (-5) to enemy (+5) unless they have some major reason to be otherwise (For example, most of the troops in the armies of the heroes in my campaign started as allies, even most of the commanders) This is as much as you can start with without being personal. As you play, I look out for "significant relationship changes"- acts that may change the nature of the bond between the characters. If such an event occurs, I monitor for a slight bit if the PC goes forth with the change, or rejects it (for positive changes), or if the PC prevents deterioration (For negative changes), and I adjust things accordingly. "Friend" or "Intimate" are what they say- they require aa change on the personal level.

For example, as you've read my log, remember the three characters (Anevia, Horgus and Aravsh) aat the start? They all started as indifferent, and changed as the party adventured with them, slowly.

4) If we're on that matter, I don't remember seeing anything about the Leadership feat. I highly suggest to roleplay this one as well, and not just grant serious game altering mechanics (cohorts and followers) because of a feat with no justification whatsoever. In my campaign the leadership feat grants bonuses for things dealing with leading lots of people (Such as some of the mass combat roles, and possibly the city management rolls, if we'll use them).

5) Just wanted to say, I really liked some of those rules- splitting the movement before and after an action, the half-BAB dodge bonus, and so on. Good work!
Heya, thanks for stopping by!
1) Good idea. It'll be a very good reference for myself as well.
2) Rest assured that everyone has an up to date version of the document. The link in the OP is just copied across. I may look into doing up a wiki though.
3) Making someone more friendly will be through RP, yes. Very much like you have described it.
4) I'm encouraging players to do a 1-20 write up of their character for this campaign. More for practice than anything as they're more than welcome to change it once we start playing. I guess it's also to foster the communication between myself and them. I hope that as there is that communication we'll be able to talk a week or a month before it becomes an issue.



I usually go over their backstory and give them one gestalt level of an NPC mundane class. If the fighter wants to have had a life as a merchant, mercenary and smith before becoming an adventurer, expert covers that nicely. If the rogue or swashbuckler came from a prestigious family and resorted to scoundrelry for fun, aristocrat. Etc.

It's hard to break because the only classes that really, truly benefit from extra skill points don't get any.
Interesting. I had an idea for running the first couple of levels in a campaign as NPC classes and then slowly retraining them out. But that's a ways down the track as this first campaign has them starting at level 5.


Hm. A few more things that I noticed.

1:Improved Critical and Keen stacking could get...ridiculous. Unless you're perfectly okay with people threatening a critical hit 45% of the time, I'd say stick a hard cap on there of a 15-20 critical hit range.

2:You point out that two-weapon fighting gives a +4 bonus to hit at level 6 to counteract the penalties on light weapons, but light weapons only give a -2 penalty. (Unless I misread your later portion on two-weapon fighting.)

3:THANK YOU for combining the various ranged taxes into one feat.

4:If these are new people, actually detail out what fractional BAB and Saves are.

5:The 'Favours and trade goods' bit doesn't seem like a houserule, just general in-world advice.

6:I'm going to assume you're not using encumbrance rules, at least not after level 5. That could use a bit of detail.

7:Right, Diplomacy. Be wary of the door you're opening with the 'spend gold for a circumstance bonus' bit. Adventurers have a ridiculous amount of money compared to most people. If you're accounting for this already, then by all means.

8:Shunt all the combined skills into their own section, for ease of reading.

9:'A player may side out any one class skill for another at level 1.' I'm going to assume you mean swap out, or something similar.

10:This is more of a recommendation than a nitpick, but Intimidate checks. Allow players to get stacking circumstance bonuses on this one depending on what they do. Hitting someone when you're already in a fight won't do much, but making an intimidate check on someone after you've killed six of his friends should get a bit of a bonus. Or shaking down an Innkeeper after cracking his countertop in two. Or...you get the idea.

11:On a similar note to 10 while I'm thinking about it, have you considered using Morale mechanics for the opponents rather than 'they fight to the death' that seems to be prevalent? Making them roll on a 3d6 (For a bell curve, and more reliably brave/cowardly people) whenever something happens to shake their morale, such as a friend dying. A 7 for cowardly creatures, an 11 for normal, and a 16 for fearless ones.

1: As it already is you can optimise to crit on a 3-20 or something ridiculous. The problem for a player is that they still need to hit on all but a Nat20. I will keep an eye out for that, though.
2: I'll have to look back through that to make sure I've Englished properly. Thanks :smalltongue:
3: I'll take the credit for that and run before the actual person who did it comes by :smallwink:
4: Yeah. I think I'll flesh out the document a bit better and make it easier for reading.
5: There is some stuff like that that has crossed into the document. I haven't removed it because it's good advice and I'm too lazy to start up another document for "general advice".
6: I sincerely hope that by level 5 they have at least one magical bag to hold stuff in. If I was paying particular attention to encumbrance they'd be hard pressed to carry all their gold at that level.
7: Mmm. I may have to make special mention of that in my notes.
8: Will do, thanks.
9: ^
10: I think I should just make special mention of remembering to add circumstance bonuses. Good idea though.
11: I may give the Morale mechanics a look. As it is I try to play the NPCs intelligently; or at least semi-intelligently depending on how stupid the PCs are being at that point in time :smalltongue:



I think the general feel I get from your post is that I should elaborate more :smalltongue:
And so it shall be (later this week).

In which way? You can only use a single nightstick for Divine Metamagic for any given use of DMM, but you can have multiple nightsticks and use each one in turn to stretch out your uses of turn undead for DMM? You can only have one nightstick per character?
You can carry as many as you want. But only one can be "attuned" to you at any one point in time. So, effectively, one per character. I'll elaborate on that though.


What about mundane ammunition? Do you have a clear and concise explanation for what up-market would constitute IC & OOC?
Mundane ammunition will just be a thing that you have.
Not written down. Elaborate it is!


What will this actually mean in-game? Are you going to have some standardized value gems around that won't have to deal with the rigarmarole of appraisal and people trying to stiff people who try to use them as currency? Are you going to give loot that's not coinage for the most part and so they'll have to keep that in mind when looting and tallying up their goods? Are they going to have to convert the loose coin they get into more compact currency and be charged a surcharge by moneychangers every time they go to town?
It's moreso for convenience than anything. I want them to be used to the idea that they might not get moolah for doing something. And that instead they may get a favour.
The gems is one of those D&D vs RL conflictions. I can't imagine anyone carrying around 1,000 gold coins. But I can imagine a gem worth 1,000 gold coins. And I can imagine how much easier it is to carry that around. I think I need to make a decision of whether I just hand waive ye olde bottomless, extradimensional coin purse.


So you can use the rest of your move after you take a move action, but why does that mean you can no longer take a feat to move-attack-move? Why not move action that uses up part of one's movement > standard or move action that isn't movement > rest of movement left from the initial move action? You may want to consider having a low-or-no prerequisite feat like Move-By Action from M&M3e (http://www.d20herosrd.com/5-advantages).
You don't need to take a feat to Move - Attack - Move because you can naturally do that. Move - Nonmovement Action - Move is the same thing. Or Start Move - Standard Action - Finish Move. However you want to write it.


Just using the stanrdard PHBII rules for that, or...?
Yes. I think so.


So you gain +2 bonus damage at BAB 4 rather than at BAB 1, then? I'd specify which is the case, since that feels like it might read a little bit odd.
Yes. At BAB 4. I'll look at rewriting that


Sounds interesting. This an original idea of yours or did you run into this one around here? If the latter, do you recall who you saw came up with it or where?
I'll look through my notes. It was something that another person had implemented. Unfortunately they didn't have any specifics for what the bonuses would be. So I'm yet to finish that part myself.


You've got a minor typo at the end here. Also, do you mean that they each receive a 0.5 rank like a cross-class skill that one invested only one skill point in by the default RAW(but not, by your houserules) or do you mean that each skill receives 2 skill ranks as 4 is the skill rank cap for first level characters and 4/2 = 2?
I'll rewrite that. They get 2 skill ranks in 2 of the skills listed.


So you have BAB/2 = Dodge bonus to AC and Tumble Ranks/5 = Dodge bonus to AC. Do these stack or do you just take whichever is higher? Granted, I don't really see a way for Tumble-derived dodge bonus to exceed BAB-derived.
Dodge bonuses stack.

Also, is this dodge bonus to AC only received when using the Tumble skill or always-on when one is not flat-footed?[/quote]
Always on.


Sorry, what? Is this a placeholder? :smallconfused:
I'll go look back through that. I had it there for a reason, but it may be related to one of the other dot points.


So you can trade one of your class skills out for another skill making the new skill a class skill and the old skill into a cross-class skill? Why no druids taking disable device?
My examples will usually use stereotypes to outline an idea. So a stereotyped druid of nature and stuff will have no knowledge/experience with those fandangled devices such as locks.


Untyped and stacks with anything or a circumstance bonus?
At this stage I'm unsure. Thoughts? I'm leaning towards untyped and stacks. But can easily see a circumstance bonus working


In the parentheses, are you talking about making a first impression?
Yes. It was a question I'd put in there to remind myself. I want to put a guideline in my notes for NPCs of moderate to high importance about their initial and (possible) continued interaction with PCs. More to do with individualising reactions and named NPCs than anything else.
If you, or anyone else reading this, knows of a simple system to put into practice. Even something as simple as 3 main questions to answer each NPC to give them a personality.


Don't monks already get Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1? Also, what happens when they full attack then, do the penalties for flurrying get reduced or do they actually get a bonus to hit or can they not get the extra attack when they're full attacking, encouraging them to always attack and move or move and attack?
Monks are not proficient with unarmed strikes. By RAW. Which is silly.
I'm not sure what the question is here. Full attack is as normal. Flurry is as normal, but it's a standard action. Yes, it will encourage them to flurry and move.


My thought was to make Improved Feint take a Swift action instead of a Move action and to possibly apply to more attacks than just one attack per feint.
I'll relook over Improved Feint. Though it wasn't directed at me, it's interesting.



I'm so sorry.

When pulling house rules make sure it's stuff people have actually played with and said turned out well. There's a lot of good but a lot of bad and each one could get its own thread. Best to look back at all your sources and filter them. Also good to keep the house rule list short for the sake of player sanity. Though splitting it off into sections so people can skip what doesn't apply to them does help too.

The #1 rule is play nice and it is one many people follow even without being told. Games often work out well regardless this way. A million untested house rules OTOH become a big pain in the butt for the players when they get tested on them.
I don't understand. What are you sorry for?
A lot of these house rules are ones that have been mentioned numerous times over many threads, so I'm not hugely worried about it going to hell in a hand basket. It's also why I've opened it up to the people on these boards. The people who have a tonne more experience than me, both individually and collectively can critique and help refine them.
Keeping the house rules list short would be more for my and one other player's sanity. The others have barely looked sideways at a book before. I will make sure to keep an eye out for particular cases where the house rules are making more problems than fixing them.

*phew* Done. I hope I've responded to everyone adequately.

[ericgrau]

There are a lot of things that many people think are great ideas but aren't, and they don't know this because they haven't actually put them into practice. They get recycled in new posts simply because they've been said before and it seemed like a good idea when saying it, not because games went well with it.

I've played with about 1/4 as many forum based house rules and it was both excessively confusing house ruling and a total unbalanced mess too. All in the name of fixing and rebalancing.

[Red Rubber Band]

There are a lot of things that many people think are great ideas but aren't, and they don't know this because they haven't actually put them into practice. They get recycled in new posts simply because they've been said before and it seemed like a good idea when saying it, not because games went well with it.

I've played with about 1/4 as many forum based house rules and it was both excessively confusing house ruling and a total unbalanced mess too. All in the name of fixing and rebalancing.

Fair enough. I'll make sure to keep a watch on the house rules and see how they fit in with the game and the players.
Do you have an specific advice for the house rules that I've got in the document? Have you played with any of them before?