That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!

[Manly Man]

So, this is a bit of a quick brainstorm for everyone here. I plan on remaking the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog as a monster for a later encounter in a campaign of mine, and I've gotten some bases down, but I'm wondering if I should tweak it at all.

Base creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/rabbit)+Beast of Chaos (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/beast-of-chaos-cr-2-tohc)+Dire (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dire-creature-cr-2-tohc)+Mighty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mighty-cr-5) are what I've gotten so far, and I'm planning on giving it 9 HD, though maybe more, since feats are quite welcome, and he's going to be more of a lethal joke monster (but not an unbeatable one). Speaking of feats, I was thinking of getting into the Vital Strike line, as well as some Critical feats, since, as a rabbit, the only attack he gets is a bite. I don't really think charging is something he'll bother with very much, since after these templates are applied, he'll have a move speed of 80 ft, hence my consideration for Vital Strike; he's already moving more than twice as fast as the average character, so it's not like they'll really be able to get away, or catch up to him if he retreats.

I figure it would be worth adding that the party currently consists of three gestalt characters, level 7, and relatively well-optimized, if you're wondering about difficulty. Also, to make things clearer, it's 3.p with PF's rules, and I'm making all of the size changes that come from templates null and void, as I'd like him to stay the size of a hare.

[Garktz]

Give him the feral template and andvance him so he gets pounce, i like that template, like a lot...

[Neli42]

I'm not in the monster-building end, so I don't know how to to tell you to actually get the needed elements, but I agree that a pounce or jump of some kind is necessary. It is very clear in the film that he is able to launch himself from ground level to attack the neck of a human fighter. That attack is also evidence of some tactical ability, since he exploits the vulnerability in the human fighter's armor. Thus, higher than average intelligence.

[Manly Man]

Give him the feral template and andvance him so he gets pounce, i like that template, like a lot...

Unfortunately, Feral only applies to humanoids and monstrous humanoids. The monster we have here is a rabbit (a Magical Beast by now, with the other templates it already has).


I'm not in the monster-building end, so I don't know how to to tell you to actually get the needed elements, but I agree that a pounce or jump of some kind is necessary. It is very clear in the film that he is able to launch himself from ground level to attack the neck of a human fighter. That attack is also evidence of some tactical ability, since he exploits the vulnerability in the human fighter's armor. Thus, higher than average intelligence.

And, in fact, I've got him with a higher Intelligence (at least, higher than an animal's), sporting Int 4. Smart enough to know that, even if he can bite through steel, there are spaces with soft and squishy bits if he aims right. I've been wondering about just what to give him as well to get the jumping going on him, even things like taking a level of Swordsage (it's a 3.P game, Pathfinder ruleset) to get Sudden Leap, but that seems too far off, even for such a vicious monster as him.

[Kol Korran]

This is an excellent idea, and I'd like to maybe steal it for my campaign as well? :smallbiggrin:
Some suggestions:
- Advanced creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creature-cr-1) (+1)
- Half fiend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/half-fiend) might also work thematically, though I'm not sure if it can work with Beast of Chaos.
- I've been playing with mythic rules, and Mythic monsters have sort of epic/ out there powers (Such as Dual initiative-, which enables them to act another time in a round. Not just another standard action, but a full turn). These could give the bunny appropriate "unique" quality. However, the PF rules don't have a list of mythic powers, so these are left to the GM to decide, which is a case by case basis, and a bit hard to adjudicate. I can help here if needed.

[atemu1234]

Half-Celestial Half-Fiend Half-Dragon Feral Lolth-Touched Rabbit.

[Taveena]

I feel this template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) may be what you're looking for.

[Manly Man]

This is an excellent idea, and I'd like to maybe steal it for my campaign as well? :smallbiggrin:
Some suggestions:
- Advanced creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creature-cr-1) (+1)
- Half fiend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/half-fiend) might also work thematically, though I'm not sure if it can work with Beast of Chaos.
- I've been playing with mythic rules, and Mythic monsters have sort of epic/ out there powers (Such as Dual initiative-, which enables them to act another time in a round. Not just another standard action, but a full turn). These could give the bunny appropriate "unique" quality. However, the PF rules don't have a list of mythic powers, so these are left to the GM to decide, which is a case by case basis, and a bit hard to adjudicate. I can help here if needed.

Dual Initiative sounds fantastic.


Half-Celestial Half-Fiend Half-Dragon Feral Lolth-Touched Rabbit.

While it might fit the power, it's not thematically right; I'm just aiming to make a rabbit that mauls everything with its bite, not breath weapons and SLAs.


I feel this template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) may be what you're looking for.

That might just do it, though having the rabbit be quite that powerful might be a little more than I'm looking for, since I'm aiming to put some HD on it to make it a bit tougher. Need a little breathing room, y'know? I'll ask some of my other friends about it, see what they think.

[Inevitability]

How about Human Heritage, to have it qualify for feral? I mean, you already have an abyss-warped unnatural rabbit, why not have a weird wizard with a knack for polymorphing be its great-great-great-grandfather?

[Manly Man]

This is an excellent idea, and I'd like to maybe steal it for my campaign as well? :smallbiggrin:

By the way, you're more than welcome to do so.

[Der_DWSage]

Hm. You've some decent ideas there, but I'm not sure it's quite fitting for the Rabbit of Legend. You're making him stand out a little too much, and you're giving him an uncontrolled (Whenever he's in sunlight) rage.

Rather than going for surprising amounts of strength, how about deadly dexterity? I propose the following.

Base (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/rabbit) + Mythical (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mythical-animal-cr-2-tohc) + Being a total of 12 HD. (This is 4 HD beforehand, due to the odd way Mythical works.) This gives you a CR 8 critter from animal HD and templating. Then give it Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus(Bite), and (Mildly DM fiat) Slashing Grace for feats, giving a total of 1d4+10 damage (Assuming stat increases go into Dexterity) with a +19 to hit, and 22 AC. With both Improved Initiative and 30 Dexterity, it's almost certain to go before any knights that walk up to make rabbit stew. If this still isn't strong enough for your tastes, add on the Advanced Template. And if you're really craving DR so that they need a holy hand grenade, toss in fiendish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/fiendish). Maybe add in Dazzling Display (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat) and Gory Finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gory-finish-combat) to put the last touches of flavor in there.

Deadly enough to be a lethal joke, but I don't see it KOing a party of level 9+ characters. Maybe a little strong for CR 8/10 (Depending on additional templates) but certainly not as terrifying as, say, Shadows and Allips.

[Renen]

Now make it a rabbit, and give the party a DMPC that is multiclassing cleric and alchemist...

[Manly Man]

Another idea, I suppose, would be to drop the Beast of Chaos template and give the rabbit two mythic ranks instead? Or is that a bit too much?