Okko Magic System

[faustin]

Recently, I have been thinking in creating a set of rules for a game based in that comic setting. For those who don´t know, "Okko" is a relative popular french mini-comic relating the adventures of the so-named ronin and his crew of demon hunters (Noburo, the terrible yet loyal half-oni, Noshin, the sake addict priest, and Tikko his apprendice, who narrates the story), in the Asian-like world of Pajan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Okko.jpg

While most of the aspects of the game can be translated easily (even with Oriental Adventures), my biggest concern is the magic system. You see, in that world magic is the work of priest (and wicked sorcerers, but that is NPc territory) who commune, worship and bargain with kamis (elemental spirits).

In general, I have discerned that brief, low powered effects (making a sword burn the hand of an enemy, a temporal shadow to hide) can be archived with a few short prayers to the nearby less powerful kamis.
However, great and/or prolonged effects demands a direct plead and negotiation with the middle-big strong ones. Example.
The group is on pursuit of a gang of slavers who days ago kidnapped Tikko´s sister, a geisha. The trail lead them to the sea. Noshin makes contact with a pair of water kamis and convince them to send a magical, glowing fish to guide their boat for a few days... in exchange of a bottle of his favorite sake.
Later, they arrive to an island (presumibly the bandits hideout). The local lord, while seemingly affable seems to be interested in making them leave in the next ship to the continent. Noshin has no better idea than to create a tiny, little EARTHQUAKE :smalleek: to destroy the local port and all the ships. For that purpose, he spends several hours dealing with the local spirits, who will carry his plead to their elders... this time, the price will be to build a temple in their name where the local peasants will pray and send their offerings. Better for our monk to work his silver tongue.

Finally, it´s possible in certain ocasions to coerce the kamis to do your bidding. Of course, such course of actions always have consequences.
Example: in another book, Okko has been called by a noblewoman to help her find a cure for her daughter, who seems to be in a permanent catatonic state. Suspecting evil supernatural influences, Okko asks Noshin to work his talents. After closing all the doors and windows of the house, the priest
demands the kazikame (air elemental of the room)to reveal all hidden sounds in exchange of letting him go). Grudgingly, the spirit raises the volume, revealing an strange melody coming from a banjo, which turnes to be the container of a demon who was whispering the little girl how her mother had actually killed her father. The cursed artifact is immediately destroyed.
Later, Noshin is ambushed alone by an hostile demon hunter who is after Noburo. Enraged, N calls the spirits of the wind to wipe out the insolent... only for such kamis to backlash at him for the abuse of their brother in the mansion. The monk is badly hurted and left at the mercy of his enemy.


So, any ideas to translate the pleading/dealing into mechanics?

[JoshuaZ]

You could maybe do something similar to the binder vestige system in Tome of Magic, but change it so that the amount of time the spirits were bound was shorter and there could be more of a consequence of making a poor binding check, or specific things which automatically result in major penalties to the checks.

[faustin]

Mmmm...I don´t like it; Binding/Pact Magic is about summoning an outsider into your body to milk its power, and risking adopting its habits or even being overcome by the entity. What I want is more of Quid Pro Quo: "I promise you X if you do Y for me". Ej: asking the wind to carry a message to an ally in exchange of a song or my voice for a day".

[JoshuaZ]

Mmmm...I don´t like it; Binding/Pact Magic is about summoning an outsider into your body to milk its power, and risking adopting its habits or even being overcome by the entity. What I want is more of Quid Pro Quo: "I promise you X if you do Y for me". Ej: asking the wind to carry a message to an ally in exchange of a song or my voice for a day".

Yes, I see the difference. I'm suggesting not that one use the fluff of binding but that one use a somewhat similar mechnical base but with more emphasis on the "binding checks" and ability to modify them.

[Admiral Squish]

I really love the idea of kami-negotiation-based magic, it's definitely different.

Let's say, five levels of effects. You'll need names for the categories, but for now, I'll just call them by numbers 1st to 5th. You would probably have some supernatural powers to interact with and contact the kami in the first place. These spells would probably also be divided along the varieties of kami you can call upon, like earth, air, water, etcetera.
Each level of effect would have a static DC to make, with either Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate. Diplomacy would be the most effective, but bluff allows them to get out of the commitment, and intimidate is faster but might provoke backlash.
You'd have access to 1st and 2nd level at the start, and get new levels as you grow. Once you get 4th, you can use 1st faster and without making checks, and once you get 5th you can do the same with 2nd.
There would have to be some sort of mechanical encouragement for the caster to follow through on their promises at some point. Diplomacy would bind them to the agreement they made. Bluff would allow them to avoid following through, but have a chance of provoking backlash. Intimidate would definitely provoke it.
Backlash is a tricky bit. I'm thinking failing a casting roll, either at all or by a certain margin, provokes backlash, making the spell fail, and the caster take some damage relative to the category. If you bluff or intimidate a spirit, you take a penalty to your check the next time you call upon that variety of spirit.

I hope the ideas there are coming through reasonably clearly.

[Grinner]

I'm not familiar with the specifics of the comic you're talking about, but this seems like something that ought to leverage Diplomacy.

If you want a structured system for doing something like this (instead of just rolling a Diplomacy check), I'd emulate the RPG Sorcerer. In Sorcerer, employing a demon first requires a contacting ritual. Perhaps a Knowledge(Spirit Lore) skill can help out here?

After that, a Diplomacy check would be in order, in which a price is negotiated upon. You might want to use Rich's Diplomacy house rule here. Prices should be more or less set at a certain scale (no free lunches), but the player might be able to negotiate for alternative means of payment.

There are also containing and punishing rituals, though I'm not sure how to fit those into the system I've outlined above. Containing seems fairly straightforward, perhaps by binding the kami into a sealed box or something of that nature, but punishing isn't so clear...Maybe each spirit has an "allergy" of sorts?

[faustin]

Yes, I was thinking in using a Theology ability replacing Diplomacy when dealing with Kamis and Gods. The problem is how calculating prices and promises (either articles with a cost in gold, services or even sacrifices) according with the tasks (spells).


There are also containing and punishing rituals, though I'm not sure how to fit those into the system I've outlined above. Containing seems fairly straightforward, perhaps by binding the kami into a sealed box or something of that nature, but punishing isn't so clear...Maybe each spirit has an "allergy" of sorts?

Not much of an allergy as simply the fact each kami is tied to an element and location. Humans naturally excels in modifying such areas (from extinguish a fire to drain a lake) which disrupts the spirits linked to them. Of course the most powerful the kami the more possible he strikes back in the spot; either way, his "family" will not be pleased. After all, the ability of communing with the spirits of Nature is supposed to be a sacred gift not to be abused.

This said, there are a few sorceres in the comic who seems to being able to command the kamis with their dark arts to their bidding. However, such actions seems to have a corruptive effect on the kamis, twisting them into malevolent forces.

Where is the link of those Negotiations rules? :smallconfused:

[Grinner]

Yes, I was thinking in using a Theology ability replacing Diplomacy when dealing with Kamis and Gods. The problem is how calculating prices and promises (either articles with a cost in gold, or services) according with the tasks (spells).

I'm inclined to think prices should be hinged more on dramatic value rather than monetary value, though that might be dependent on how common magic is. If people start slinging magic at the first sign of trouble, something more standardized might be better.


Where is the link of those Negotiations rules? :smallconfused:

Gah! I thought I had linked them.

They're here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9606632&postcount=2).

[faustin]

I'm inclined to think prices should be hinged more on dramatic value rather than monetary value, though that might be dependent on how common magic is. If people start slinging magic at the first sign of trouble, something more standardized might be better.

As I said, in the comic the ability to perceive and interact with kamis is a gift of them, part of your destiny (which also means to become a priest and taking vows). Either you have it or not. And abusing frequently of such gift is a grave disrespect toward such forces.