Subtypes and Breeding

[Ruethgar]

Are subtypes retained in breeding? I'm curious because a player of mine payed the exorbitant cost to get a couple of her animal friends the Ritual of Association(Dragonblood).

[Ruethgar]

Is there really no ruling?

[bigerxman]

There is in savage species I beliece, it explains how types layer and overwrite, animal is one of the lowest, but If it is the ritual I think you are talking about, your type doesnt change, you just get a subtype.

[Ruethgar]

It is just the subtype, no type change. What I want to know is if they breed true by RAW. When two dragonblooded velociraptors love each other very much do they have dragonblooded babies or just normal?

[Coidzor]

Is there really no ruling?

I don't believe so, no. They didn't say whether Awakened Animals breed true, for instance. At least, they don't say anything about it anywhere that I can recall reading.

[Necroticplague]

It is just the subtype, no type change. What I want to know is if they breed true by RAW. When two dragonblooded velociraptors love each other very much do they have dragonblooded babies or just normal?

If the dragonblood is the result of the ritual? The rules don't really cover this (because they usually don't go into details about heredity outside of 'half-X' templates), but precedence from permanent spells says 'probably no'. After all, a ritual is essentially a spell targeting a specific creature. It doesn't effect any other creature unless it says so. Just like how the children of Awakened Animals are just regular Animals (most likely to the distress of the parents), because the spell doesn't say their progeny receive its benefits.

[atemu1234]

This is one of the situations that is gray, at best. If the dragonblood is the result of magic, then it depends on the effect. If it is impossible to dispel (IE, can only be removed by the same ritual that granted it) it wouldn't be surprising if it stays with the offspring. However, if it can be removed by other means, it isn't hereditary. (goddammit larmarck)

[Ruethgar]

The effect is non-dispellable, it can't even be removed by the same ritual that grants it. You have to perform a different one or Wish for a different race to get rid of it.

[atemu1234]

The effect is non-dispellable, it can't even be removed by the same ritual that grants it. You have to perform a different one or Wish for a different race to get rid of it.

Then I'd rule it as hereditary; you're literally changing one thing into another.

[Ruethgar]

This was compared to awakened animals not breeding intelligent offspring, but it should be noted that Awakened animals breeding would still make magical beasts in accordance with BoEF at least(since WotC failed to provide a crossbreeding table) though their stats remained unchanged from an animal.

[bigerxman]

This was compared to awakened animals not breeding intelligent offspring, but it should be noted that Awakened animals breeding would still make magical beasts in accordance with BoEF at least(since WotC failed to provide a crossbreeding table) though their stats remained unchanged from an animal.

The thing I was talkin about imples the same thing, but wizards pretty mucn assumes everything only wants to make a baby with humanoids/ monstrous humanoids unless they feel like making a tougher creature after a few tries. Ifuyou go by template requirements anyway