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AtomicKitKat
2007-03-28, 05:25 AM
I was wondering about this the other day. Assuming you took the Racial Weapon Familiarity Feat that grants you martial proficiency with exotic weapons bearing your race's name, a Dwarf dual-wielding Waraxes, and 2 Buckler-Axes(weapon from Races of Stone/Complete Warrior. Basically a buckler that can be used as a mini axe, at the expense of losing your shield AC). My question is, would the Dwarf have 4 attacks? Assume he took TWF to negate most of the penalties, and sucked up the additional penalty for having a buckler on the same hand as his weapon(and the additional loss of bucklers' AC for being used as weapons).

Zincorium
2007-03-28, 05:33 AM
I was wondering about this the other day. Assuming you took the Racial Weapon Familiarity Feat that grants you martial proficiency with exotic weapons bearing your race's name, a Dwarf dual-wielding Waraxes, and 2 Buckler-Axes(weapon from Races of Stone/Complete Warrior. Basically a buckler that can be used as a mini axe, at the expense of losing your shield AC). My question is, would the Dwarf have 4 attacks? Assume he took TWF to negate most of the penalties, and sucked up the additional penalty for having a buckler on the same hand as his weapon(and the additional loss of bucklers' AC for being used as weapons).

The FAQ actually answers this, in a roundabout way. Page 37 talks about a lot of things relating to TWF, but it points out something that really is kind of obvious in retrospect: the TWF feat, or even fighting without the feat with two weapons, says that it only grants a single off hand attack. It isn't until you get improved TWF that you can get another attack. So, one of those four possible attacks is your primary, another is your secondary, and you can't attack with the other two at all, since you have to specify which is primary and which is off hand before improved and greater two weapon fighting can be used.

Multiweapon fighting would allow you to make all four of those attacks, but you would need at least three arms, which, while the RAW is silent on the issue, it is assumed by everyone that dwarves only have two.

Indon
2007-03-28, 06:22 AM
Multiweapon fighting would allow you to make all four of those attacks, but you would need at least three arms, which, while the RAW is silent on the issue, it is assumed by everyone that dwarves only have two.

I think there might be a way to fix that, but you'd need the Book of Vile Darkness or something like that...

Necromas
2007-03-28, 06:26 AM
I don't think you need to go through the rules to understand they definitely did not intend buckler weapons to be used in conjunction with another weapon on the same arm so you can have twice as many attacks as you have limbs.

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-28, 08:07 AM
*wink*
The idea here is not so much whether it's allowable by the RAW(which is not really that helpful, since you can use Improved Shield Bash with your buckler while wielding a two-handed weapon{IIRC}), but whether you think it would be reasonable to allow it.

silentknight
2007-03-28, 12:41 PM
If you attack with a weapon wielded in one hand, you cannot attack with a buckler on the same arm unless you can actually make another attack with the same arm. This extra attack might come from base attack bonus, or some magical effect, but having multiple weapons does not automatically grant you attacks with all those weapons just because you own them.

Seffbasilisk
2007-03-28, 12:52 PM
You can't shield bash with a buckler.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-28, 12:54 PM
One could theoretically attack with two weapons, a snap kick (ToB), and two bladed boots (CScn), as a regular humanoid.

Clementx
2007-03-28, 12:57 PM
You can't bash with a buckler. And as others have said, TWFing lets you make more attacks with weapons you wield- it doesn't let you use an arbitrary number of weapons just because you strap them on. You can also only wield one weapon at a time with an arm. A DM that actually pays attentions to the rules also puts limits on what weapons threaten in a round, as well, so the buckler-ax does nothing at all for you. No matter how sloppy a DM is about restricting what weapons you threaten with, no one is stupid enough to think you can make attacks with all them for no reason other than having them out.

If you had three arms and the racial ability to multi-weapon fight with them, you could strap a buckler to one arm and use it as a weapon, independent of your other weapons, because it is on another limb.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-03-28, 02:29 PM
You can't bash with a buckler.

From the description, you can with a buckler-axe (although it would be 'hack with a buckler').

What I'm afraid I instantly thought upon seeing the thread title, however, was sword-chucks. 4 weapons, two arms. Yo.

TimeWizard
2007-03-28, 06:00 PM
A little off topic, but I've seen a custom feat that allowed two armed characters to gain access to multi weapon fighting. I think it was called You know you have no life and watch too much One Piece [fighter bonus feat]. I might have made it up. But then again I have no life and watch too much One Piece.

Cybren
2007-03-28, 09:00 PM
there's a way (http://nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=041019)

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-28, 09:34 PM
Bah. I just thought it was an interesting little thing. Besides, even if you cannot actually get 4 sets of attacks, isn't is entirely possible to switch up between the weapons? Like you're wielding a Greathammer(or some similar blunt weapon), with a Dwarven Buckler Axe on one hand, and a Gnome Tortoise Blade(similar to Buckler Axe, but with Piercing damage) on the other. Do you think the player should be allowed to switch up their attacks? For the purposes of bypassing some damage reduction. Like if you're fighting a horde of skeletons and zombies.

Matthew
2007-03-29, 05:13 PM
I wouldn't be inclined to allow it any more than I would allow a Character to use Two Small Sized Double Weapons to gain multiple attacks, or whatever.

Clementx
2007-03-29, 08:09 PM
There is a significant difference between those two statements. Yours is explicitly forbidden by the rules for double weapons. He is asking about using different weapons from round to round without trying to get extra attacks or dropping them. There are no rules about his.

I allow creatures to switch to a different weapon to finish their attack routine once per round without TWFing (hack with axe at +6, stop wielding it, kick at +1, wield unarmed strike until your next turn). I also let them move a weapon/object from hand to hand as a free action once (then as a move). So you could swing your greataxe at +6, switch to holding it in one hand, the stab with their tortoise blade at +1. It also helps clarify how you cast spells when using a two-hander.

Matthew
2007-03-29, 08:16 PM
I don't really see how. What you are describing is already allowed by the RAW anyway. The point I was making was that having four different weapons to make attacks with doesn't grant you four attacks, just four available weapons with which to make Iterative and Off Hand Attacks.

silentknight
2007-03-30, 12:38 PM
Right, as long as you have Quick Draw you could attack with every single weapon you have strapped to your person, 3 swords, 12 daggers, two bucklers, a crossbow, 2 spears...whatever you've got. But you are still limited to how many attacks you make in ONE ROUND.