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natos4unlife
2014-12-13, 12:23 AM
Hello all. This may well turn into a wall of text. I apologize in advance if it does.

1. I am in the process of prepping for a campaign I will be running starting sometime within the next few weeks. As is often my way, when I get stuck trying to think of plot devices (and the plethora of possible ways they could go in the hands of unpredictable players), I will go into the mode of fleshing out the world. Giving flavor, story, and whatnot to various aspects of the world that will invariably come into play. In this campaign I intend to make ample usage of factions the players will encounter, and may "befriend", or anger, depending on how things go. I got started on the basics.. the ones that exist in campaigns all over.. for example a theives guild. I wanted to just come up with a basic hierarchy, and hammer out a couple quick sheets for key people who will, throughout the story, be engaged with the party, either as allies or foes.... but then a question struck me. What level, on average, would you say a headmaster of a theives guild, or other similar faction, should be? Obviously they are a cut above the rest, as they have the skills to attain their positions of power, but I think making them 20, or even mid to high teens, seems excessive. Anybody else have thoughts on that?


2. The idea of this campaign is to ramp up the difficulty from what we normally play with. Encounters (not just combat) will be harder. A brief example: Story wise, the gods are "dead" (as far as it seems) so divine magic is very rare. Most clerics that do exist are relatively unknown to the public, and evil (story reasons). Many good clerics that do exist are of low level, and thei magic is unreliable at best. As such, potions and healers are hard to come by, and when found are more expensive than book listed prices (and, within this world, the oft overused Healing Belt does not exist). For the matter of fairness and avoiding arbitrary exceptions placed upon players, the PC cleric of the group will not face sporadic magic shortages with the noted exception of there will be caveats for when and if resurection will work, but that won't be for a long time, as we are starting lvl 1. This "forces", for lack of better term, conservative usage of the healing materials the do get their hands on.

Long winded "brief" example aside, does anybody have anecdotes, warnings, or suggestions from your own past experiences running campaigns with ramped up difficulty levels? Potential pitfalls to watch out for, etc. The players have all been forewarned that character death is a very real threat, as this world is unforgiving and cruel, and they are all on board with that idea, but I don't want to accidentally through them into a meat grinder simply because I guaged how a situatoin would pan out incorrectly.

3. There was a 3, but I forgot it. I will try to remember and follow up if I succeed.

Thanks in advance to anybody who lends any advice.

SiuiS
2014-12-13, 01:08 AM
Bards exist and so healing magic isn't that rare, just arcane. Both sorcerers and wizards are capable of learning cure minor wounds, for example, and both Druids and sorcerers can get ahold of vigor.

Rather than rarity, I would expect price gouging. It's easy to find healing potions! Just not at a price you'll accept. Be prepared for any level one caster to work with wizard to make scrolls and eventually wands, if they have a way to get ahold of cure. Selling healing magic at normal price would likely get them rich quick unless there is a guild to keep prices static and prevent non-union undercutting.

natos4unlife
2014-12-13, 01:21 AM
I'm not familiar with sorc/wiz getting access to healing spells... so this is news to me.

Tarvus
2014-12-13, 01:24 AM
1. ... In this campaign I intend to make ample usage of factions the players will encounter, and may "befriend", or anger, depending on how things go. I got started on the basics.. the ones that exist in campaigns all over.. for example a theives guild. I wanted to just come up with a basic hierarchy, and hammer out a couple quick sheets for key people who will, throughout the story, be engaged with the party, either as allies or foes.... but then a question struck me. What level, on average, would you say a headmaster of a theives guild, or other similar faction, should be? Obviously they are a cut above the rest, as they have the skills to attain their positions of power, but I think making them 20, or even mid to high teens, seems excessive. Anybody else have thoughts on that?


This question really relies on 2 things. How high a level you want the PCs to get, and what relationship do you want to facilitate between the PC and the NPC guildmasters.
For example if you want them to be literally indomitable figures of legend, never to be supplanted or challanged by the PCs (somewhat boring I think :smallbiggrin:), and the PCs will only ever reach level 3, then a level 15 would curbstomp them. But if you *want* the PCs to supplant them you want the NPCs roughly at or a bit above the PC's expected max level.

If none of that matters or you can't plan ahead that far for whatever reason, Cityscape has some interesting chapters on Guilds (and some nice plot hooks) and you could just lift one of their pre-made characters for your guildmasters.

EDIT: Clarifying

Yahzi
2014-12-13, 02:08 AM
What level, on average, would you say a headmaster of a theives guild, or other similar faction, should be?
This question is answered differently, based on what kind of game you are running.

If you are running a Sandbox game (meaning the world is just there and the players can do whatever they want), you need a way to answer this question in a general sense. I've done a lot of work on that in my World of Prime guidebook which I am currently updating, but my world doubles XP at every level, so anything over 9th rank is pretty rare. Basically the answer should be: how big is the city? The more people your faction leader controls/preys off of, the higher level they should be. This will be intuitive to your players and create a world that doesn't fall over the minute you stop propping it up (far too many random generators put 17th level wizards in tiny villages, leading your players to ask "why hasn't this guy taken over that city run by a 3rd lvl aristocrat?").

If you are running a Story game, then the level of the guildmaster is whatever level he needs to be at the time he shows up on stage. If the players go away and gain a bunch of levels and then come back, the guildmaster gained as many levels as you need for the story. Seriously, you can't screw up in a story game. If your story is "this guy is the GodFather and kings fear him," then he's 20th level. If he's just a small-time capo, then he's 5th level or so.

SiuiS
2014-12-13, 02:22 AM
I'm not familiar with sorc/wiz getting access to healing spells... so this is news to me.

Sorcerers have a caveat saying they can learn any spell "they are sufficiently familiar with". Some people say this is so if the DM puts a brand new homebrew sorc/wiz spell into the game they can learn it, but that's silly. If it's a sorc/wiz spell, it's on their list and they can already learn it. Sorcerers can study clerics, bards and Druids and learn their magic, provided the character has experienced it enough to count as sufficiently familiar on level up. I always smirk when people wonder why my sorcerer is getting into theological and thaumaturgic discussions with clerics.

Wizards can duplicate just about any arcane spell through "independent research". Bards get cure light wounds as a first level arcane spell. One bard and one wizard at level one can collaborate to use the wizard's starting feat (scribe scroll, from class feature) and the bard's knowledge to make a scroll of cure light wounds that is an arcane spell. The wizard can then study that scroll and scribe the spell into his spell book for later use as a prepared spell on his personal 'class list'.

Many people don't even know about the first and out limits on the second. But by default, both are possible.

nedz
2014-12-13, 04:49 PM
I'm not familiar with sorc/wiz getting access to healing spells... so this is news to me.

Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain)