Heroic Malevolence?

[Xuldarinar]

Although my focus is pathfinder, and I would label it as such, this aspect certainly is certainly something that can be addressed in anything possessing the nine-alignment system we all know and love(?).


I want to see concepts, as specific or general as you please, approaching any of the three evil alignments in such a way that the character can be considered redeemable, heroic even. Characters such that even the most noble and zealous of paladins might hesitate to slay in spite of how vile these mortal fiends, or literal fiends, might be.





Bonus points if such a character is eligible for, and even set upon, following through on this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376027-Becoming-a-Demon-The-Guide).

[hamishspence]

I want to see concepts, as specific or general as you please, approaching any of the three evil alignments in such a way that the character can be considered redeemable, heroic even. Characters such that even the most noble and zealous of paladins might hesitate to slay in spite of how vile these mortal fiends, or literal fiends, might be.


A character who is sadistic in the extreme but confines their attentions to those that even the most kindly of paladins would consider "should not be protected" - can get pretty vile without triggering the paladin "punish those that harm or threaten innocents" code principle.

Throw in some altruism toward strangers - and they could qualify as "heroic" as well.

This can work for any of the 3 Evil alignments.

[sideswipe]

a half vampire who has spent their entire life fighting and slaying evil, hating all undead.

this is actually a character one of my players has. a vampire ummm... the family friendly version is that his vampire daddy and his human mummy did not have a loving relationship but she had a baby she didn't really want.....

anyway. they became a paladin and vowed to rid the world of their father and all evil they ever meet.
it does require a bit of DM fiat to play, but other paladins would see evil but would think twice if they knew their character.

[Lathund]

Another way would be a 'one-eyed king' approach: bad, but better than the rest. Think Bozzok (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html): leader of the local underworld, but removing him would lead to worse people taking over. A real-life example might be Assad, who's done some terrible things, but removing him would create a power vacuum some ragtag band of rebels would try to fill.

Maybe Redcloak is an even better example: while he's obviously evil and willing to sacrifice anything to reach his goal, he *did* get goblins and hobgoblins a save place to live and put a decent leader at their head. There's definitely something redeemable in that.

So basically, you could make someone of whom people say: "Well, I don't like him, but at least he's keeping things in order. We got to give him credit for that."

[Strormer]

Redeemable villains usually have some very personal reason for their actions that could, in their twisted logic, justify anything and everything. This is often met with a slippery slope trope that results in their actions, which were formerly unavoidable without failing in their personal motivation, becoming increasingly villainous without need. Somewhere, deep inside, these characters are still justifying what they do in the name of a cause they consider worthy.

In truth, Hitler would probably fall into this category, doing unspeakably evil things, but all with a cause (in his head, at least). Clearly, this doesn't actually justify their actions, but it can create a seed of good that might be useful.

To use a less controversial, non-real-world example, Zuko from Avatar would be perfect for this. His goal was about earning his father's forgiveness and trust and redeeming himself in the eyes of the nation he was meant to rule, but he eventually turns from this path when his experiences show him that he doesn't support his original cause any longer. (Though Zuko remained relatively moral, even at the height of his villainy being no worse than Lawful Evil, the character still follows the path I'm attempting to describe.)

The difficult part becomes finding a cause that the PC's can relate to (and thus forgive) and making sure that his actions are not so villainous that he becomes unforgivable, regardless of motivation (like Hitler). The closer you can walk this line, though, the better. The darker the villain, the more exciting the redemption story. All this to say I can totally see Hitler trying to be a demon and now I've got a new Ron Perlman flick in my head...

*Very important disclaimer. Hitler was evil and unforgivable and whatnot, so please don't accuse me of being a nazi or something for using an example. :)

[Inevitability]

Dexter. He is definitely Evil, but could be described as lowercase g 'good'.

Also, a character who is suffering from multiple (as in, dozens) personalities. 9/10 of those are Evil, but a few are pure and honest heroes. The character, together with the help of several friends, has set up a system where the Evil personalities are connected to a teleportation system; should one of them surface, he is immediately teleported to a secure cell or even a demiplane. Once a Good personality takes over, he is released again.

Most people would only see his Good sides, and therefore see him as a hero. However, this person is without a doubt Evil most of the time.

[Arbane]

a half vampire who has spent their entire life fighting and slaying evil, hating all undead.

Vampire Hunter D?

Another one:
Someone who's doing horrible things to stop WORSE horrible things. If the Elder Evil requires human sacrifices to stay asleep, well....

[Malroth]

Jack Bauer, Will do anything to protect his country and family, ANYTHING!

[Grim Portent]

One concept I'm rather fond of is essentially of a mortal/near mortal soldier in the fiendish Blood War who's assigned to hunting down and killing cults that serve the opposite side. No seducing the virtuous to evil, no wanton slaughter, just a dedicated quest to find and kill as many of those who serve his master's enemies as possible.

Now the methods of killing and tracking down his targets would be vicious, brutal and very sadistic, but collateral damage is avoidable and may even impede the continuation of the mission.

Such a character could easily work with any group willing to turn a blind eye to torturing cultists or willing to talk him out of it rather than leap straight to the evangelical smiting. The occasional fiend summoning or evil spell might be harder to work around, but still possible, and since the character is largely preventing evil cults from doing their thing he's technically being heroic.



I've actually thought about this concept a bit, and have a character concept based around the Mortal Hunter prestige class from BoVD. The idea is that the character is a LE fiend (pick up the outsider type somehow, there's quite a few options for it) sworn to the armies of Baator and dispatched to prevent the demons from trying to leverage any advantages possible from the Prime Material by hunting down cultists and demons present on the plane. What's the easiest way to get aid in killing such things? Find a group of noble, good, trustworthy people and enlist their help in ridding the world of demons. Duty, honour and the efficient completion of this endless task are the primary motivations of the character, with a sadistic joy in hurting others and deep hatred for chaos being lesser motives.

[oxybe]

Dunno how "heroic" one could call her but my current tiefling witch is definitely up there in the "protector of the kingdom".

She doesn't really hide the fact that she's a "not nice" person. Mental domination is one of her favourite go-to's, slighting or hurting her will likely involve some nasty retribution, produces alchemical substances of dubious legality, "sneak attacks" on enemies that involve the sudden conjuration of fiendish triceratops during sleep time,summoning demons...

But she's loyal to the party as they gave her a 2nd home of sorts, since they're a all non-standard races (we only somewhat recently got a dwarf and a human. the rest are an aasimar, a sylph, a fetchling & a half-orc... and the half-orc's sentient wolf) and everyone's been through some sort of stuff, even if they don't want to talk about it. Though not the most sociable person, she has friends outside the party and a somewhat lackey in a kobold she took under her wing as an apprentice of sorts, teaching him about alchemy, herbs and magic. She respects people (or at least gives recognition to people) from pretty much all walks of life as long as they don't actively try to cross her.

On her off-adventuring days she does know put her few healing spells and medical knowledge to use on the local population if asked, and does it pretty much for free. The money she would gain from them is barely even worth mentioning at this point in her adventuring career so "healing the sick" is more akin to a sometimes-hobby then a profession: catch her in a good mood and she'll patch you up. Sometimes she'll ask for a meal or a stiff drink, but that's about it. She always has a cache of healing potions or balms of sorts to sell at market price for that reason.

But make no mistakes: Nisha is the sort of person who, if crossed, will summon a bone devil, do some light conversation about sacrifices and murder as she politely asks it murder someone in her general area and drag their immortal soul to hell.

Which is probably why next session me and the aasimar cleric will probably have a few words. But we've pretty much always had a weird buddy-cop relationship.

[Psyren]

A character who is sadistic in the extreme but confines their attentions to those that even the most kindly of paladins would consider "should not be protected" - can get pretty vile without triggering the paladin "punish those that harm or threaten innocents" code principle.

Throw in some altruism toward strangers - and they could qualify as "heroic" as well.

This can work for any of the 3 Evil alignments.

Isn't one of the tactics of the fiends to encourage mortals to brutal acts (e.g. torture and genocide) even against them? Vile and cruel they may be, they are still a form of life.

It's a lot like Joker's obsession with getting Batman to kill anyone, even himself.

[hamishspence]

Which is why such a character, however sympathetic they might be, is still Evil, and why a paladin, while not compelled to stop their evil acts, would avoid associating with them.

[Inevitability]

The SCP wiki has some. Take SCP-231, for example. The Foundation is [REDACTED]ing a (possibly underaged) girl and actively seeking out methods to heighten her pain, but they are doing it for the greater good. More 'malevolent heroics' than 'heroic malevolence', but hey, it works.