Junkyard Wars VIII: Pounce+Small Size-Barbarian

[WhamBamSam]

Welcome to Junkyard Stadium! It is in this hallowed pile of miscellaneous parts that we will hold a competition of Practical Optimization with three components. The catch? Competitors may not use the third item in their builds!

Goal: Create a build that showcases the selected ingredients while steering clear of the Forbidden Ingredient.

This competition has two Necessary Components and one Forbidden Component. Because my own ideas are only half-formed as of yet, I picked Ponies' brain for the ideas that he had while he was chair. This was one that really stuck out to me. As a required ingredient, we have a hugely important component of a good deal of melee optimization, but the twist is that we'll be requiring small size, which is often a hindrance for melee types, and forbidding the simplest and most common means of acquiring the aforementioned melee staple. Fire up your rudisplorkers, this round's components are...


Necessary: The Pounce special ability!
Necessary: Small or smaller size!
Forbidden: The Barbarian base class!

Contestants:

So you wanna give this thing a shot? Awesome! The rules are as follows:
Creation: 32 point-buy is the presumed creation method. If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in Elegance and/or Power. XP is assumed to be 190,000--just enough to hit 20th level. This is a departure from previous rounds that awarded "bonus XP" to use for crafting, LA buyoff, etc. No more!
Workshop: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. If you use web material, link it. Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed, as are Oriental Adventures and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and fractional saves are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until after the reveal in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Disputes: Any scoring disputes should be sent to the Chair via PM. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes will be posted in-thread for the judge to review. When disputing, please indicate the judge the dispute is intended for and provide a quote of the disputed comment or comments. Note: the Chair may edit or paraphrase any disputes in presenting them to the judges.
Leadership is banned: We're creating one things, not all of the things. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.
Presentation: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability throughout its life. Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries. Also for this reason, PLEASE do not include any material that may or may not offend any potential viewers/judges/competitors OR break forum rules. Any builds which violate forum rules WILL be withheld from posting.


Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Judges:

Scoring: Each judge is required to provide the criteria by which they are judging the builds. By "criteria," we mean a simple explanation of what the judge is looking for in each of the below categories and what kind of scoring we can expect. If a judge deems a build to be illegal, they may provide a 0 in Elegance but may not refuse to judge any build presented by the Chairman.
The Categories: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Components.


Originality: Basically put, does the build stand out from the crowd? Some judges score entries for the quality of their concept & backstory as well, though not all do. Providing at least some backstory is heavily encouraged, as it helps the judges figure out who the entry is.
Power: Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance: This category was formerly titled "Build Stability." Here, we're essentially measuring how skillfully you put your build together and how you balanced flavor with power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Some judges have penalized dipping classes in this category. Rule adherence and legality of sources is scored under this category. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. Note: for this round, the use of Level Adjustment should not receive a deduction. LA Buyoff, however, may receive deductions at each individual judge's discretion.
Use of Components: Was the Forbidden Component avoided? Were the Necessary Components showcased, or simply used because they were necessary? Note: some judges deduct for things that still hold the feel of the Forbidden Ingredient, even if said ingredient itself is not used (ex: using savant levels when factotum is forbidden).

Disputes: Any scoring disputes will be posted by the Chairman in-thread after reviewing them privately. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes should be responded to by each individual judge. Should a judge fail to respond to a valid dispute in a timely fashion, the Chair reserves the right to respond on behalf of the judge.

Completion Time:

Contestants will have until [11:59 PM GMT on January 4th, 2014] to create their builds and PM them to the chairman, WhamBamSam.
Builds will then be posted simultaneously to avoid copying.
Judges will have until [11:59 PM GMT on January 18th, 2014] to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.
As the precedent has been set from Episode 2, should all prospective judges have posted their rulings in a neat, timely fashion and all disputes have been settled satisfactorily (to either judges, contestants, or the Chairperson), the judging period may end prematurely to give way to a new episode. No reason to keep working on a finished building and avoid moving onto the next one.

So who wants to sign up as a contestant and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build that doesn't gain a medal. Contestants are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. Everyone else can vote in-thread. Ready? Steady? Get to the junkyard and start building!

Previous Competitions:
Episode 1: Shadowdancer + Sneak Attack - Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342896-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-II)
Episode 2: Healing Spells + Ruby Knight Vindicator - no Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?337864-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-I)
Episode 3: Dragon Type + Mystic Theurge - Kobold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347412-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-III-Dragons-Theurges-Kobolds)
Episode 4: Book of Exalted Deeds + Undead Type - Completes Books (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?355278-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-IV-BoED-Undead-Type-Completes)
Episode 5: Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler - Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360271-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-V-Dread-Witch-Reaping-Mauler-Fighter)
Episode 6: Wonderworker + the Profession Skill - Factotum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369604-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-VI-Wonderworker-Profession-Skill-Factotum)
Episode 7: Metamagic-Feats+Level Adjustment-Metamagic-Reducers! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374504-Junkyard-Wars-in-the-Playground-VII-Metamagic-Feats-LA-Metamagic-Reducers!)

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Web 3.0 is allowed, are official 3.0 books allowed? What about officially licensed books?

[WhamBamSam]

Web 3.0 is allowed, are official 3.0 books allowed? What about officially licensed books?JW follows the same rules as IC. 3.0 stuff is fine as long as it hasn't been updated in an allowed 3.5 source. Officially licensed, but not WotC-official materials such as the Dragonlance books other than Dragonlance Campaign Setting or individual Dragon Magazines as opposed to Dragon Compendium are disallowed.

[Heliomance]

You're still referencing the metamagic contest in your blurb.

[sakuuya]

AW YISS. I'm so glad the Junkyard is back!

...Now I just have to force myself to finish my Slime Lord entry before I focus on this...

[WhamBamSam]

You're still referencing the metamagic contest in your blurb.And a reference to Ponies' birthday no less. It's fixed now.


AW YISS. I'm so glad the Junkyard is back!

...Now I just have to force myself to finish my Slime Lord entry before I focus on this...You'll have a week after the IC deadline to submit here. And of course, any competitors too busy with their Slime Lord builds to compete here would be more than welcome to judge.

[sakuuya]

You'll have a week after the IC deadline to submit here. And of course, any competitors too busy with their Slime Lord builds to compete here would be more than welcome to judge.

My worry isn't that I won't have enough time to do this after I finish my Slime Lord; it's that I won't bother to finish up my Slime Lord because I'm too excited about JW being back. I have a habit of not paying enough attention to IC when there's an active JW going.

[dysprosium]

I'm glad to see the Junkyard back too.

Hopefully I can get involved in this one.

And no Pouncebarians! I have to say that I like the sound of that.

[sideswipe]

yay its back, just as i come back!

i want to enter this, i already have a great idea.

[crankykobold]

Does it have to be the actual pounce ability, or can it be something that is essentially pounce?

[WhamBamSam]

I'll say that Pounce analogs that actually function as pounce are fair game (ie, if you make a full attack at the end of a charge then it counts, but something like Travel Devotion that allows you to move and full attack in another way does not), but that some of them (not naming names to avoid speculation) might warrant UoSI penalties at the judges' discretion.

[sakuuya]

Do you specifically want small size, or are sizes smaller than small acceptable?

[WhamBamSam]

Do you specifically want small size, or are sizes smaller than small acceptable?I'm cool with sizes smaller than small, I guess. I'll update the OP accordingly.

[Dread_Head]

I might enter this, I have loads of work in for January though and I might not have time.

[sideswipe]

are shining south and unapproachable east valid books?

im my tables 3.0 is iffy and any campaign books are banned anyway. so my knowledge on what is and isnt third party is bad.

[madtinker]

Wish I had seen this two weeks ago, looks like an awesome character concept, a la Wee Mad Arthur from Pratchett's Discworld. I'll be looking over the builds with interest.

[WhamBamSam]

Wish I had seen this two weeks ago, looks like an awesome character concept, a la Wee Mad Arthur from Pratchett's Discworld. I'll be looking over the builds with interest.You may get a chance to build after all. I haven't gotten any builds yet, so I'll probably be giving an extension. I think it's the holidays. I've had plenty of free time to work on contests, but I've still been pretty lazy about it even so, and I know a lot of people have more responsibilities than I do this time of year.

[sideswipe]

i have my build half done. the problem is it just doesnt seem to work the way i want it to...

[sakuuya]

You may get a chance to build after all. I haven't gotten any builds yet, so I'll probably be giving an extension. I think it's the holidays. I've had plenty of free time to work on contests, but I've still been pretty lazy about it even so, and I know a lot of people have more responsibilities than I do this time of year.

An extension would be great. I did indeed get waylaid by the holidays, and when I came back to my otherwise-completed build, I had forgotten all but the vaguest outlines of the fluff I intended. :smallsigh:


are shining south and unapproachable east valid books?

im my tables 3.0 is iffy and any campaign books are banned anyway. so my knowledge on what is and isnt third party is bad.

They both are, yeah. As far as I know, all 3.0 and 3.5 Forgotten Realms books are official first-party stuff.

[Sian]

somehow i completely managed to miss this going up ... odds are low that i'm going to cook even if it looks interesting unless it get some kind of extension, so i might try my hand at judging.

Do the pouncing explictly have be called out as pouncing or does it just have to work mechanically similar?

[WhamBamSam]

An extension would be great. I did indeed get waylaid by the holidays, and when I came back to my otherwise-completed build, I had forgotten all but the vaguest outlines of the fluff I intended. :smallsigh:Yeah, I'm just wondering whether I should give you guys one or two weeks of extension. One week would line up JW cooking time with the IC judging period, while two would stagger them a bit more, so that it'd overlap some IC cooking and some IC judging. I'll decide by tomorrow, but you guys will get at least a week more to work.


somehow i completely managed to miss this going up ... odds are low that i'm going to cook even if it looks interesting unless it get some kind of extension, so i might try my hand at judging.

Do the pouncing explictly have be called out as pouncing or does it just have to work mechanically similar?Here's what I said earlier in regards to that question.


I'll say that Pounce analogs that actually function as pounce are fair game (ie, if you make a full attack at the end of a charge then it counts, but something like Travel Devotion that allows you to move and full attack in another way does not), but that some of them (not naming names to avoid speculation) might warrant UoSI penalties at the judges' discretion.So as long as they're making a full attack on the end of a charge, don't FtQ them, but beyond that I'll defer to the judges judgment.


are shining south and unapproachable east valid books?

im my tables 3.0 is iffy and any campaign books are banned anyway. so my knowledge on what is and isnt third party is bad.Yep, 3.0 material is fine so long as it hasn't been updated in a 3.5 book.

Faerun and Eberron books are all first party. Some other settings like Rokugan and Dragonlance are more complicated.

[WeaselGuy]

I have a build that's about half done, but I have a sneaking suspicion sideswipe and I might be thinking in the same direction, which would kind of suck, along with the fact that I don't know that it fits the parameters of "make full attack at end of charge"... Another thought did just occur to me, so I'll get back with any decisions on that one...

[sideswipe]

i will be entering, but i feel it is a bit of a loss of elegance to my original idea....

[WeaselGuy]

I decided on probably the 4th or 5th attempt at this challenge. I'll message the chairman in about 12-18 hours or so with the final version, assuming we're having that week extension.

[WhamBamSam]

I decided on probably the 4th or 5th attempt at this challenge. I'll message the chairman in about 12-18 hours or so with the final version, assuming we're having that week extension.Yeah, it'll be a one week extension. I may give more time on the next challenge if I decide I'd prefer it to line up differently with Iron Chef. I'll update the OP accordingly.

[sakuuya]

i will be entering, but i feel it is a bit of a loss of elegance to my original idea....

If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure my build is also gonna take a big ol' elegance hit.

EDIT: Oh, thank goodness. If there wasn't an extension, I was gonna have to send in my build with no fluff, which, aside from being generally a bad idea, would mean that all of you would know exactly which one is mine.

[WeaselGuy]

Yeah, I think my first 2 builds were not going to sit right with the charge parameters, my third one just seemed kinda flakey, my 4th one was skirting the line being too much like the forbidden ingredient, but this fifth one, I like it. And it's pretty cheese-free.

[sideswipe]

If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure my build is also gonna take a big ol' elegance hit.

EDIT: Oh, thank goodness. If there wasn't an extension, I was gonna have to send in my build with no fluff, which, aside from being generally a bad idea, would mean that all of you would know exactly which one is mine.

mine is the one with the small size and the pounce

[sakuuya]

mine is the one with the small size and the pounce

Oh, crap, I think we're going for the same build.

[WeaselGuy]

Oh, crap, I think we're going for the same build.

Why is everyone stealing my idea all of a sudden? I'm doing a small pouncer too!

[sideswipe]

i have a present.....

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vtmdmy0fglo0jda/Iron+Chef+Class+Table+Format.html

[sakuuya]

And I'm in! Am I the first official submitter?

[madtinker]

I appreciate the extension; we'll see if I have time to come up with anything.

[WeaselGuy]

So nervous, my first submission... worried I might have missed something important or messed it all up somehow :smalleek:

[sakuuya]

So nervous, my first submission... worried I might have missed something important or messed it all up somehow :smalleek:

Have you looked at previous JW (or IC) rounds to see what those entries were like? Doing that was the only thing that saved my first submission from being terrible.

[WeaselGuy]

Have you looked at previous JW (or IC) rounds to see what those entries were like? Doing that was the only thing that saved my first submission from being terrible.

Yeah, but I'm still anxious lol...

[WhamBamSam]

And I'm in! Am I the first official submitter?Yep, you were the first one to get an entry in. It's just you and WeaselGuy so far.

[sideswipe]

should have mine in tonight. after that i might see if i can do another

we can still do that right? whats the max? i might get more in for the lolz and for more to be seen

[WhamBamSam]

should have mine in tonight. after that i might see if i can do another

we can still do that right? whats the max? i might get more in for the lolz and for more to be seenThere's a limit of 2 entries per contestant in Iron Chef to keep from overwhelming judges. Side competitions don't get as many entries, but they also get less judging interest, so I'm gonna say that the same rules are in place, unless people really think I should remove them.

[sideswipe]

and i'm submitted. i don't think i have enough time to craft another.

[Sian]

almost done with mine ... excepted to get done this evening, but got sidetracked by trying to figure out if a variant of my build was worth it, but came to the conclusion that while cute, it was protentially more inelegant (or at least, much greater chance for it being seen as such), and where it counted (the reason i got the idea) it was slightly less efficient as well...

[madtinker]

I don't think I'll have time to finish, so don't worry about waiting for me. (And school starts again next week, so another extension wouldn't help me). I'll still be watching how everyone else's builds turn out. Good luck all!

[Sian]

Fluff to go. With the danger of falling into "famous last words", it should be plenty of time ... unless i suddenly feel a urge to bingewatch Game of Thrones :p

[sakuuya]

Can Game of Thrones be more thrilling than the possibility of winning an internet game with no prize? :smallbiggrin:

[WhamBamSam]

Well, it's 11:59 GMT, or at least so sayeth Google. Time for the reveal!

Please refrain from posting until I give the all clear.

[WhamBamSam]

Horseless Harry, the Small Giant Human

Race: Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic 6), Small Giant (human, dragonblood)
Class Levels: Scout 4 / Wilderness Rogue 16
Speed: 40'
Alignment: is irrelevant to this character — unlike the Forbidden Ingredient, which has an alignment requirement
STATS (32 pb):

STR 14 -> 12 (-2 Small size)
DEX 14 -> 16 (+2 Small size) -> 21 (increments @ 4, 8, 12, 16, 20)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 10


http://thumbnails111.imagebam.com/37735/8f54f3377343334.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/8f54f3377343334)
Silver dragons have in history ventured throughout Faerûn, including the great grassland of The Shaar; consequently, there are Silverbrow humans (Dragon Magic 6) there. In The Shaar, everone rides. (See "Human Tribes of the Shaar", Shining South 164.) As a member of the Lion Tribe, Harry the Silverbrow Human grew up riding down Gold Dwarf caravans — and, like most in the Lion Tribe, learned to Pounce: Lion Tribe Warrior [Regional] feat (Shining South 20). While still a young ambusher he came to realize he had a knack for skulking about on foot; he was a better skirmisher once he hopped off his horse. That's what prompted him to become a Small Giant: a desire to attain greater stealth capabilities.

To accomplish this goal, Harry rode to Shaarmid to contract the services of a couple of NPC spellcasters. The first was a Wizard who cast Polymorph to make him a Forest Troll (Monster Manual III 179), a Medium Giant (5 HD, +5 LA); this spell cost CL 7 x 40 gp = 280 gp. The second (while Polymorph was still in effect) was a Druid who cast Return to Nature (Eberron Campaign Setting 114); the cost of this spell was CL 13 x 70 gp = 910 gp.


Return to Nature

Target: 1 living creature
Duration: Instantaneous

The target creature draws closer to an ideal state of nature, with specific effects that depend on the creature’s type and abilities.
...
Giants subjected to this spell become smaller, as though affected by a reduce person spell (see page 269 of the Player’s Handbook). A successful Fortitude save negates this effect.


Harry willingly forwent the save and accepted the result (instantaneous change to a Small Giant). When the Polymorph spell expired, the original race (Human) returned while the size and (probably) type were fixed. (Note: it's possible that some DMs might have the character revert to Humanoid type when the Polymorph spell expires, rather than being fixed at Giant type by the instantaneous spell. That actually doesn't matter to this character, except Small Giant Human is more droll than Small Humanoid Human.)

Standard 2nd level starting Wealth by Level is 900 gp, and PCs attain 2,700 gp wealth by the end of that level. This Junkyard War's size ingredient is established early in 2nd level (total spellcasting cost 280 + 910 = 1,190 gp).


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Scout (Complete Adventurer 10) 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Balance 4, Hide 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 4, Knowledge (local) 4, Knowledge (nature) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4, Ride 4, Tumble 4
Education (Eberron Campaign Setting 52) (+1 to arcana & dungeoneering), Lion Tribe Warrior [Regional] (Shining South 20)
Skirmish (+1d6), trapfinding


2nd
Scout 2
+1
+1
+3
+0
Balance +1=5, Hide +1=5, Knowledge (arcana) +1=5, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=5, Knowledge (local) +1=5, Knowledge (nature) +1=5, Knowledge (religion) +1=5, Knowledge (the planes) +1=5, Ride +1=5, Tumble +1=5

Battle fortitude +1, uncanny dodge


3rd
Scout 3
+2
+2
+3
+1
Hide +1=6, Knowledge (arcana) +1=6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=6, Knowledge (local) +1=6, Knowledge (nature) +1=6, Knowledge (religion) +1=6, Knowledge (the planes) +1=6, Move Silently 1, Ride +1=6, Tumble +1=6
Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike)
Fast movement +10', Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC)


4th
Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) 1
+2
+2
+5
+1
Hide +1=7, Knowledge (arcana) +1=7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=7, Knowledge (local) +1=7, Knowledge (nature) +1=7, Knowledge (religion) +1=7, Knowledge (the planes) +1=7, Move Silently +1=2, Ride +1=7, Tumble +1=7

Sneak attack +1d6, Poison Use (Drow of the Underdark 58)


5th
Wilderness Rogue 2
+3
+2
+6
+1
Hide +1=8, Knowledge (arcana) +1=8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=8, Knowledge (local) +1=8, Knowledge (nature) +1=8, Knowledge (religion) +1=8, Knowledge (the planes) +1=8, Move Silently +1=3, Ride +1=8, Tumble +1=8

Evasion


6th
Wilderness Rogue 3
+4
+3
+6
+2
Hide +1=9, Knowledge (arcana) +1=9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=9, Knowledge (local) +1=9, Knowledge (nature) +1=9, Knowledge (religion) +1=9, Knowledge (the planes) +1=9, Move Silently +1=4, Ride +1=9, Tumble +1=9
Swift Ambusher (Complete Scoundrel 81)
Sneak attack +2d6, Lightbringer Penetrating Strike (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft 208), Skirmish (+2d6, +1 AC)


7th
Scout 4
+5
+3
+7
+2
Hide +1=10, Knowledge (arcana) +1=10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=10, Knowledge (local) +1=10, Knowledge (nature) +1=10, Knowledge (religion) +1=10, Knowledge (the planes) +1=10, Move Silently +1=4, Ride +1=10, Tumble +1=10
Improved Skirmish (Complete Scoundrel 78)
Bonus Feat (Improved Skirmish), Skirmish† (+2d6, +2 AC)


8th
Wilderness Rogue 4
+6
+3
+8
+2
Hide +1=11, Knowledge (arcana) +1=11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=11, Knowledge (local) +1=11, Knowledge (nature) +1=11, Knowledge (religion) +1=11, Knowledge (the planes) +1=11, Move Silently +1=5, Ride +1=11, Tumble +1=11

Uncanny Dodge


9th
Wilderness Rogue 5
+6
+3
+8
+2
[B]Bluff 5, Jump 5
Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle 33)
Sneak attack +3d6, Skirmish† (+3d6, +2 AC)


10th
Wilderness Rogue 6
+7
+4
+9
+3
Tumble +2=13; Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories, Dismount Attack, Nimble Charge, Twisted Charge




11th
Wilderness Rogue 7
+8
+4
+9
+3
Hide +1=12, Knowledge (arcana) +1=12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=12, Knowledge (local) +1=12, Knowledge (nature) +1=12, Knowledge (religion) +1=12, Knowledge (the planes) +1=12, Ride +1=12, Tumble +1=12, Use Magic Device 1

Sneak attack +4d6, Skirmish† (+3d6, +3 AC)


12th
Wilderness Rogue 8
+9
+4
+10
+3
Hide +1=13, Knowledge (arcana) +1=13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=13, Knowledge (local) +1=13, Knowledge (nature) +1=13, Knowledge (religion) +1=13, Knowledge (the planes) +1=13, Ride +1=13, Tumble +1=13, Use Magic Device +1=2
Craven (Champions of Ruin 17)
Uncanny Bravery (Dragon Magic 14)


13th
Wilderness Rogue 9
+9
+5
+10
+4
Hide +1=14, Knowledge (arcana) +1=14, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=14, Knowledge (local) +1=14, Knowledge (nature) +1=14, Knowledge (religion) +1=14, Knowledge (the planes) +1=14, Ride +1=14, Tumble +1=14, Use Magic Device +1=3

Sneak attack +5d6, Skirmish† (+4d6, +3 AC)


14th
Wilderness Rogue 10
+10
+5
+11
+4
Use Magic Device +10=13

Camouflage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm#camouflage)


15th
Wilderness Rogue 11
+11
+5
+11
+4
Hide +1=15, Knowledge (arcana) +1=15, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=15, Knowledge (local) +1=15, Knowledge (nature) +1=15, Knowledge (religion) +1=15, Knowledge (the planes) +1=15, Ride +1=15, Use Magic Device +2=15
Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion 60)
Sneak attack +6d6, Skirmish† (+4d6, +4 AC)


16th
Wilderness Rogue 12
+12
+6
+12
+5
Hide +1=16, Knowledge (arcana) +1=16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=16, Knowledge (local) +1=16, Knowledge (nature) +1=16, Knowledge (religion) +1=16, Knowledge (the planes) +1=16, Tumble +2=16, Use Magic Device +1=16




17th
Wilderness Rogue 13
+12
+6
+12
+5
Hide +1=17, Knowledge (arcana) +1=17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=17, Knowledge (local) +1=17, Knowledge (nature) +1=17, Knowledge (religion) +1=17, Knowledge (the planes) +1=17, Tumble +1=17, Use Magic Device +3=19

Sneak attack +7d6, Hide in Plain Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm#hideinPlainSight), Skirmish† (+5d6, +4 AC)


18th
Wilderness Rogue 14
+13
+6
+13
+5
Hide +1=18, Knowledge (arcana) +1=18, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1=18, Knowledge (local) +1=18, Knowledge (nature) +1=18, Knowledge (religion) +1=18, Knowledge (the planes) +1=18, Move Silently +1=6, Tumble +1=18, Use Magic Device +1=20
Snap Kick (Tome of Battle 32)



19th
Wilderness Rogue 15
+14
+7
+13
+6
Hide +3=21, Knowledge (local) +1=19, Knowledge (nature) +1=19, Knowledge (religion) +1=19, Knowledge (the planes) +1=19, Tumble +3=21

Sneak attack +8d6, Skirmish† (+5d6, +5 AC)


20th
Wilderness Rogue 16
+15
+7
+14
+6
Hide +2=23, Move Silently +4=10, Tumble +2=23; Skill Trick: Acrobatic Backstab

Skill Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#specialAbilities): Hide, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Tumble

† - increased by +2d6, +2 AC with 20' skirmish movement
This Small Giant Human is gear-dependent, as is typical for non-spellcasters. The only critical need is to boost his unarmed damage +5 effective sizes for 20 hours with a single daily spell, Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon 115), which ideally would require no equipment — just the assistance of a friendly party Sorcerer or Wizard. But to be safe, Harry has two ways (belt + suspenders) to deal with this need:
with a friendly party Sorcerer/Wizard to cast the spell (preferred option), Harry supplies a level 3 Pearl of Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#pearlofPower) to recover the daily spell slot cost
a wand (50 charges) + sufficient Use Magic Device skill for guaranteed reliability in case there's no such friendly spellcaster :smallfrown:
In addition to the two ways of getting Greater Mighty Wallop cast for +5 effective size increases daily, Harry has an additional +1 effective size boost in the form of a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic 101), which grants him Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) (belt + suspenders + safety pin :smallsmile:)

ADAPTATION: The Fanged Ring also grants Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike) as well as Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike). Removing that redundancy (and becoming more gear-dependent) would free up one more feat. In that case, adding Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse) would improve Harry's AB by +4. Judges, feel free to pick whichever option leads to the higher score by your lights. :smallwink:

Wand of Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon 115) @ CL 20: CL 20 x SL 3 x 750 gp (50 charges) = 45,000 gp
Level 3 Pearl of Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#pearlofPower) (to recompense friendly party Sorcerer/Wizard) = 9,000 gp
Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic 101) = 10,000 gp

Harry gets a Headband of Intellect +6 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#headbandofIntellect) before level 20 to increase the number of skills he can master. This isn't actually required (a casting of Fox's Cunning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foxsCunning.htm) would be much cheaper and almost as effective), but the item is simpler to deal with at level up and can be useful later.

Other than those few specific items, you can assume Harry the SGH is decked out with the full standard Christmas tree regalia of augmentation. For instance, Feathered Wings (Fiend Folio 210) graft is a reasonable option for always-available flight because Harry has no alignment restrictions.
No level 5 presentation, because the necessary multiclassing feat (Swift Ambusher) to begin pulling the build together is first available at level 6.

LEVEL 10

At this level Harry's fairly good at sizing up enemies before battle begins; he'll recall useful information about creatures in the range of 9 - 29 HD (average 19 HD, which is what he gets when can "take 10" prior to combat). His base unarmed damage is 1d8, boosted by +3d6 sneak attack and +5d6 skirmish. He gets 2 attacks with his Pouncing Charge. That Charge includes allowances for starting on horseback, moving on a narrow path, and making a turn to bypass obstacles. His Tumble modifier guarantees that he can avoid AoOs from normal movement, but not yet when he's charging. He succeeds on most Ride checks (through DC 15) automatically, and makes the hardest (DC 20) checks most of the time.

LEVEL 15

This is Harry's sweet spot.

Harry's gone beyond just identifying creatures; now Knowledge Devotion gives him +2 to +5 (average +3.85) both to hit and damage, so he's basically caught up with the full BAB characters (+14.85 vs. +15). His base unarmed damage is now 1d10, which one daily casting of Greater Mighty Wallop from the party Wizard (CL 16) improves to 6d8. He gets damage bonuses of +6d6+15 sneak attack and +6d6 skirmish (and +6 to AC). He gets 3 attacks with his Pouncing Charge. He succeeds on all listed Ride checks (through DC 20) automatically. Camouflage and near-maximum Hide ranks let him disappear into natural terrain against most potential Spotters.

LEVEL 20

At the final level of this build Harry's no longer rolling for most skills. He identifies creatures up to 36 HD automatically. Knowledge Devotion gives him +5 to hit and damage against every creature in D&D; he matches full BAB characters to hit, with the damage bonus as the cherry on top. His Small base unarmed damage is 2d6 (same as a Medium greatsword), which the helpful casting of Greater Mighty Wallop makes 12d6 and his Fanged Ring boosts just a bit more to 16d6. Despite this being very respectable damage for a Small character, most of his damage potential is actually from +8d6+20 sneak attack and +7d6 skirmish (and +7 to AC). He gets 4 attacks with his Pouncing Charge: 3 from BAB and 1 more from Snap Kick (Tome of Battle 32). He can autmatically succeed to Tumble at full speed across even severely obstructed terrain, so very little can keep him from making those Pounce attacks. Hide in Plain Sight plus fully maximized Hide skill lets him disappear into natural terrain against nearly all opponents, whether using natural or mundane perception. Not only does this enable sneak attack, being unseen keeps Harry safe from enemy attack.
ORIGINALITY

Being a Human isn't particularly original, but as a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic 6) Harry gains Feather Fall as a SLA. (If you need Feather Fall and you're not a spellcaster, waiting for help isn't practical.)

Becoming a Small Giant Human is, I hope, an original approach to the contest's Small size requirement.

Rogue and Scout base classes aren't particularly unique, but in this build these choices are full of extra options:
Scout 3 Go to Ground (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) in place of trackless step
Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) variant: among other things this makes Ride a class skill for both of Harry's classes, letting the build reflect that every Lion Tribe member from The Shaar is a skilled horse-rider
Rogue 1 Poison Use (Drow of the Underdark 58) replaces trapfinding
Rogue 3 Lightbringer Penetrating Strike (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft 208) replaces trap sense
Rogue 8 Uncanny Bravery (Dragon Magic 14) replaces redundant improved uncanny dodge
Rogue 10 Camouflage option only for Wilderness Rogue variant
Rogue 13 Hide in Plain Sight option only for Wilderness Rogue variant
If this build is the only contest entry with no prestige classes, I'd hope for bonus credit. :smallbiggrin:

POWER

Horseless Harry's chance to hit is good. Knowledge Devotion guaranteed +5 to attack without rolling (vs. every creature type in D&D) makes this 3/4 BAB character comparable to a full BAB pouncer.

Pounce damage potential is quite good: 31d6+25 (average 133.5), times 4 attacks in a full attack (average 534 damage with 4 hits). (Note: I didn't bother adding STR bonus to the damage.) The full total is conditional on sneak attack applying, but the build has several ways to make that likely:
Hide in Plain Sight lets Harry Hide in any natural terrain, denying most enemies their DEX to AC.
With a flanking partner even enemies with extra-high Spot skills can still be subject to sneak attack.
Lightbringer Penetrating Strike makes sneak-immune creatures (like undead, constructs, and plants) take sneak attack damage when flanked: SA dice are halved (from 8 to 4), but Craven +20 SA bonus is unaffected.
Harry's Use Magic Device skill guarantees success with wands, so he can activate wands of Golem Strike (Spell Compendium 106), Grave Strike (Spell Compendium 107), and Vine Strike (Spell Compendium 230) to enable full sneak attack damage to constructs, undead, and plants (no flanking required).
Being able to add poison to his unarmed attacks gives Harry the option to cause ability damage on top of hit point damage.

Pounce requires making a Charge, and a Charge is usually thwarted by difficult terrain or obstacles. This Small Giant Human can Tumble (base DC 15) at up to running speed (+20 to DC) across severely obstructed terrain (+5), meaning that with a Tumble check of DC 40 guaranteed without rolling, Pounce will be viable for Harry because he can Charge where others would be denied. Adding to the Pounce effectiveness are several skill tricks:
Dismount Attack: ride, dismount, and (effectively) Charge
Nimble Charge: Charge across a narrow surface without making a Balance check
Twisted Charge: turn up to 90 degrees during Charge movement
OK, so Harry's effective at dealing Pounce damage. He makes DC 36 on all creature-related Knowledge checks to identify monsters (and get bonuses via Knowledge Devotion) without rolling. And he's also a wiz with wands and other magic devices. He can make DC 40 Tumble checks without rolling so he won't provoke attacks of opportunity from movement. That same check lets him make 10' Tumble adjustments in place of 5' steps (Oriental Adventures 58). But Harry's got excellent defensive chops to accompany his offensive prowess. He's very hard to hit (and I'm not talking AC here, though he does get +7 to AC skirmish bonus, and +5 DEX modifier). With Hide in Plain Sight and a maxed Hide skill, if he can't be seen, he can't be targeted; and hiding while attacking means Harry doesn't have to move to a hiding place to escape detection. Evasion and +19 Reflex save bonus means he's unaffected by most area attacks. He can't be caught flat-footed. And don't forget: Harry's an excellent rider, maintaining the birthright of The Shaar.

ELEGANCE

This is a very clean multiclass build, with only Rogue and Scout classes. As a Human, there is no multiclassing XP penalty for two base classes. There are no dips; no prestige classes at all. There are no level adjustments. The character is as gear-dependent as any non-spellcasting character, but his only critical requirement can be met by a party spellcaster (instead of through an item and his Use Magic Device class skill). He doesn't even need a mundane weapon.

INGREDIENTS

Pounce (Required Ingredient)

This is picked up as a level 1 regional feat, and is available throughout the entire character development.

Scout skirmish damage is enabled by moving at least 10' (matching the minimum movement requirement for a Charge), and boosted more by moving at least 20' with Improved Skirmish. Unlike most Small characters with a 20' speed, Harry has double that (30' Human base, +10' Scout fast movement) enabling him to Pounce on targets up to 80' away. His version of Pounce is limited to Light weapons only. Harry's unarmed strike (always considered a light weapon) ends up being a most effective weapon when it's enhanced by
Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle 33) feat for good (2d6) base unarmed damage @ Small size
magical +5 effective sizes via Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon 115) spell
magical +1 effective size via Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic 101)
Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion 60) +5 to damage (and also to hit)
While that 16d6+5 is a very respectable start, most of the damage is still to come:
+7d6 skirmish when moving 20'+ due to Improved Skirmish feat (Complete Scoundrel 78)
+8d6+20 sneak attack damage w/ Craven feat (Champions of Ruin 17) when the target is flanked, or doesn't see Harry (due to Hide in Plain Sight)
The full count of the pounce attack is 4 strikes: 3 from BAB, +1 from Snap Kick (Tome of Battle 32). The chance of hitting is boosted by +5 via Knowledge Devotion, which helps bring home those iterative pounce attacks.

Pounce requires making a Charge, and a Charge is usually thwarted by difficult terrain. This Small Giant Human can Tumble (base DC 15) at up to running speed (+20 to DC) across severely obstructed terrain (+5), meaning that Pounce will be viable for Harry because he can Charge where others would be stymied. Also note the several Charge-enhancing skill tricks detailed in POWER, above.

Small Size (Required Ingredient)

Harry becomes a Small Giant Human at level 2, as detailed in the Story section above. As an instantaneous change it's fixed through the rest of the character's development.

Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle 33) provides the equivalent of Small Monk damage through character level 19. While this feat's benefit is independent of actual character size, being Small does jibe nicely here: the unarmed damage of a Small Monk, but none of that class's issues.

The maximum damage boost of Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon 115) is +5 effective sizes, to a maximum of Colossal. These two limits are the same with a character of Small size, making the spell yield optimal improvement for Small Harry.

Barbarian (Forbidden Ingredient)

The Forbidden Ingredient (the PounceBarian) generally has the following components:
full BAB
rage/Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy )
use of 2-handed weapon (greatsword is typical)
Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack)
Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer 110)
Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior 112) and its Improved Bull Rush (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedBullRush) prerequisite
race (such as Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs)) with STR bonus
Horseless Harry avoids every bit of the above.

[WhamBamSam]

Markas Sandtracker set out at the tender young age of 20, determined to prove to nobody in particular that he could do more than just deliver messages and look for signs of Kobolds in the nearby mountains around his home. He had trained as a scout for his tribe, and those skills in tracking and woodscraft lent to the connection with nature that rangers enjoy. Over the course of his mercenary work, Markas grew to greater appreciate and embrace his connection with The Five Companions, in particular is idolization of Talisid, their leader. When his loyal Badger companion finally passed away, Markas took the opportunity to track down a Dire Lion, and managed to forge a strong relationship with the majestic beast.


Race: Whisper Gnome
Alignment: NG
Stub: Scout 3/Ranger 8/Lion of Talisid 9
Abilities:
STR: 12-2=10
DEX: 16+2=18
CON: 16+2=18
INT: 10
WIS: 14
CHA: 8-2=6
This is one surly, but good natured, Gnome.



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Scout
+0
+0
+2
+0
Balance (4), Hide (4), Knowledge (Nature) (4), Move Silently (4), Listen (4), Spot (4), Survival (4), Search (4)
Favored of the Companions
Skirmish (+1d6), Trapfinding


2nd
Scout
+1
+0
+3
+0
Balance (5), Hide (5), Knowledge (Nature) (5), Move Silently (5), Listen (5), Spot (5), Survival (5), Search (5)
-
Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge


3rd
Scout
+2
+1
+3
+1
Balance (6), Hide (6), Knowledge (Nature) (6), Move Silently (6), Listen (6), Search (6), Spot (6), Survival (6)
Weapon Finesse
Fast Movement +10ft, Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC), Trackless Step


4th
Ranger
+3
+3
+5
+1
Hide (7), Knowledge (Nature) (7), Move Silently (7), Listen (7), Spot (7), Survival (7)
-
1st Favored Enemy (Kobolds), Track, Wild Empathy


5th
Ranger
+4
+4
+6
+1
Hide (8), Knowledge (Nature) (8), Move Silently (8), Listen (8), Spot (8), Survival (8)
Two-Weapon Fighting
Combat Style


6th
Ranger
+5
+4
+6
+2
Hide (9), Knowledge (Nature) (9), Move Silently (9), Listen (9), Spot (9), Survival (9)
Swift Hunter
Endurance


7th
Ranger
+6
+5
+7
+3
Hide (10), Knowledge (Nature) (10), Move Silently (10), Listen (10), Spot (10), Survival (10)
-
Animal Companion, Skirmish (+2d6, +2AC)


8th
Ranger
+7
+5
+7
+3
Hide (11), Knowledge (Nature) (11), Move Silently (11), Listen (11), Spot (11), Survival (11)
-
2nd Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders)


9th
Ranger
+8
+6
+8
+3
Hide (12), Knowledge (Nature) (12), Move Silently (12), Listen (12), Spot (12), Survival (12)
Improved Skirmish, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Combat Style, Skirmish (+3d6, +2AC)


10th
Ranger
+9
+6
+8
+3
Hide (13), Knowledge (Nature) (13), Move Silently (13), Listen (13), Spot (13), Survival (13)
-
Woodland Stride


11th
Ranger
+10
+7
+9
+3
Hide (14), Knowledge (Nature) (14), Move Silently (14), Listen (14), Spot (14), Survival (14)
-
Skirmish (+3d6, +3 AC), Swift Tracker


12th
Lion of Talisid
+10
+9
+9
+5
Knowledge (Nature) (15), Listen (15), Spot (15), Survival (15)
Combat Reflexes
Animal Companion, Lion's Courage


13th
Lion of Talisid
+11
+10
+9
+6
Knowledge (Nature) (16), Listen (16), Spot (16), Survival (16)
-
Scent


14th
Lion of Talisid
+12
+10
+10
+6
Knowledge (Nature) (17), Listen (17), Spot (17), Survival (17)
-
Wild Shape 1/day


15th
Lion of Talisid
+13
+11
+10
+7
Knowledge (Nature) (18), Listen (18), Spot (18), Survival (18)
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Exalted Companion, Wild Shape 2/day


16th
Lion of Talisid
+13
+11
+10
+7
Knowledge (Nature) (19), Listen (19), Spot (19), Survival (19)
-
Lion's Pounce, Wild Shape 3/day


17th
Lion of Talisid
+14
+12
+11
+8
Knowledge (Nature) (20), Listen (20), Spot (20), Survival (20)
-
Wild Shape (Large)


18th
Lion of Talisid
+15
+12
+11
+8
Knowledge (Nature) (21), Listen (21), Spot (21), Survival (21)
Double Hit
Lion's Swiftness


19th
Lion of Talisidl
+16
+13
+11
+9
Knowledge (Nature) (22), Listen (22), Spot (22), Survival (22)
-
Wild Shape 4/day


20th
Lion of Talisidl
+16
+13
+12
+9
Knowledge (Nature) (23), Listen (23), Spot (23), Survival (23)
-
Wild Shape (Tiny)



Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-


7th
1
-
-
-


8th
1
-
-
-


9th
2
-
-
-


10th
2
-
-
-


11th
2
1
-
-


12th
2
1
-
-


13th
2
2
-
-


14th
2
2
0
-


15th
2
2
1
-


16th
2
2
1
-


17th
2
2
1
-


18th
3
2
1
0


19th
3
2
1
1


20th
3
3
1
1




Markas doesn't really need much to be effective. A good pair of enchanted shortswords (+3 Keen, with an elemental enchantment for good measure), a fine suit of mithral chainmail (Celestial Chain is preferred), Boots of Striding and Springing, and the standard gamut of protection items (Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, Cloak of Resistance). Markas is a melee striker, his goal is to get in, hit the enemy and get out, setting himself up at enough distance to charge back in on following rounds.


Level 1 - At level 1, Markas makes a good addition to any adventuring party, with his bonuses to sneaking and trapfinding skills. At this level, Markas is substantially better with a longbow than with his twin shortswords, notably due to lack of Weapon Finesse, and should therefore stick to ranged skirmishing.
Level 5 - By level 5, Markas has acquired both Weapon Finesse and Two-Weapon Fighting, and is therefore better suited to melee fighting now than before, but is still better at ranged skirmishing.
Level 10 - By level 10, Markas has combined his Scout and Ranger professions together, blending woodscraft with skirmishing in an almost unprecedented fashion. He now builds up a bit more momentum on his longer charges, allowing him to strike a bit harder.
Level 15 - At level 15, Markas has finally acquired his Dire Lion animal companion, and it is now an Exalted Companion. He has also begun to be able to Wild Shape a few times per day.
Level 16 - The Sweet Spot - This is it, the moment we've all been waiting for. Markas can Pounce now. He can charge in and strike hard and fast with both of his shortswords, hitting 5 times with his trusty blades, and triggering skirmish on all 5 attacks. It took him a long time to get here, but this is really the highlight of his career.
Level 20 - The final level for Markas, he now has 6 strikes with his blades or 4 shots with his bow, his Dire Lion is a force to be reckoned with, and he is truly a master of the wilds.

[WhamBamSam]

Gren Beastclaws
N Ghostwise Halfling Druidic Avenger 5/Totemist 2/Warshaper 4/Totem Rager 9
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/346/b/a/commission__teah_for_wasteland_rat__by_shimmercat-d5nuz46.jpg
Image by Shestval (http://shestval.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Teah-for-Wasteland-Rat-342407238)

When Gren Beastclaws was a wee girl, she was a wild, disobedient thing, and it was all the worse because her father was the Wise Man at that time, and she was expected to take his place when he died, just like you’ll take mine someday. But the tribe couldn’t let her go on like she was, never listening to a thing anyone said to her. Do you remember when Lurill the hunter left us, child? Do you remember the ritual?

Of course I do, grandmother.

Gren Beastclaws underwent the same ritual when she was younger than you are now, before even her Naming. Her mother and father were heartbroken, of course, but what else could they do? She went out into the world, and stayed away for many moons. When she returned—

What did she do when she was gone, though?

I’m afraid that’s one of the mysteries, my dear. Gren Beastclaws never did tell anyone what happened to her during her Change-time, but when she returned to our land, she had mastered the ways of the great beasts of the forest. And lucky that she did, too.

Why was it lucky?

Hush, my little sparrow, I was just about to tell you. She had been away too long, you see, and the Wise Man died before she came back. Without him, our tribe fell into disarray, and a terrible dragon with a hide like falling leaves invaded our forest and enslaved our people. Gren Beastclaws fought the dragon for a day and a night, using the power of the great beasts to aid her. The dragon had breath that withered the trees, but Gren channeled all her wildness in the aid of her people, and her claws were strong enough to hew stone. In the end she slew the dragon and freed our tribe. This rock just here is site of their final battle--look, you can see the gouges she left in the stone.

And that’s why this rock is the center of our land?

Indeed it is. Here, I made this for you. It’s a necklace, with a little piece of Gren’s rock in it, just like mine. Wear it close to your heart so that wherever you go, your clan and your history will be with you, and always remember little Gren, who tamed and honed her strength to become our tribe’s great champion.


At level 1: Str 12 (16), Dex 14, Con 16 (20), Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10
At level 20: Str 16 (22), Dex 14, Con 21 (27), Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10

The 20th-level ability scores assume no items.




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Druidic Avenger
+0
+2
+0
+2
Concentration 4, Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Listen 4, Survival 4
Power Attack
Rage 1/day, fast movement, wild empathy


2nd
Druidic Avenger
+1
+3
+0
+3
Concentration 5, Intimidate 5, Jump 5, Listen 5, Survival 5

Woodland stride


3rd
Druidic Avenger
+2
+3
+1
+3
Concentration 6, Jump 6, Know (Nature) 1, Listen 6, Survival 6
Cobalt Rage
Trackless step


4th
Druidic Avenger
+3
+4
+1
+4
Concentration 7, Jump 7, Know (Nature) 2, Listen 7, Survival 7

Resist nature's lure


5th
Druidic Avenger (Halfling subtitution level)
+3
+4
+1
+4
Concentration 8, Handle Animal 2, Jump 8, Know (Nature) 3, Listen 8, Survival 8

Undersized wild shape 2/day


6th
Totemist
+3
+6
+3
+4
Concentration 9, Jump 8.5, Know (Nature) 4, Listen 9, Survival 9
Bonus Essentia
Wild empathy


7th
Totemist
+4
+7
+4
+4
Concentration 10, Jump 9, Know (Nature) 5, Listen 10, Survival 10

Totem chakra bind (+1 capacity)


8th
Warshaper
+4
+9
+4
+4
Jump 10, Listen 10.5, Survival 10.5

Morphic immunities, morphic weapons


9th
Warshaper
+5
+10
+4
+4
Jump 11, Listen 11, Survival 11
Multiattack
Morphic body


10th
Totem Rager
+5
+12
+6
+4
Concentration 11, Handle Animal 3, Jump 12, Listen 12, Survival 12

Totem rage, wild empathy


11th
Totem Rager
+6/+1
+13
+7
+4
Concentration 12, Handle Animal 4, Jump 13, Listen 13, Survival 13

Rage 2/day


12th
Totem Rager
+7/+2
+13
+7
+5
Concentration 13, Handle Animal 5, Jump 14, Listen 14, Survival 14
Improved Essentia Capacity
DR 1/-


13th
Totem Rager
+8/+3
+14
+8
+5
Concentration 14, Handle Animal 6, Jump 15, Listen 15,Survival 15

Chakra binds (crown, feet, hands)


14th
Totem Rager
+8/+3
+14
+8
+5
Concentration 15, Handle Animal 7, Jump 16, Listen 16, Survival 16

Extended rage


15th
Warshaper
+9/+4
+14
+9
+6
Concentration 16, Handle Animal 8
Cobalt Charge
Morphic reach


16th
Warshaper
+10/+5
+15
+9
+6
Concentration 17, Handle Animal 9

Morphic healing


17th
Totem Rager
+11/+6/+1
+16
+10
+7
Handle Animal 11, Jump 17, Listen 17, Survival 17




18th
Totem Rager
+12/+7/+2
+16
+10
+7
Concentration 18, Handle Animal 12, Jump 18, Listen 18,Survival 18
Open Lesser Chakra (Arms)
Dr 2/-


19th
Totem Rager
+13/+8/+3
+17
+11
+7
Concentration 19, Handle Animal 13, Jump 19, Listen 19, Survival 19

Rage 3/day


20th
Totem Rager
+13/+8/+3
+17
+11
+8
Concentration 20, Handle Animal 14, Jump 20, Listen 20, Survival 20

Chakra bind (arms, brow, shoulders)





Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
5
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
[5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-






Level
Chakra Binds
Soulmelds Shaped
Essentia (Rage)


5
0
0
1


10
1
3
5 (6)


15
2
4
7 (9)


20
3
5
9 (13)



Typical Soulmelds Shaped/Bound at 20th Level: Blink Shirt, Girallon Arms (arm bind), Landshark Boots (totem bind), Sphinx Claws (hand bind), Threefold Mask of the Chimera


Level 5: Druidic Avenger is an alternate class from Unearthed Arcana that trades the animal companion for fast movement (very useful for a small charger) and rage. Other than that, Gren is a pretty standard druid--she’s even a good spellcaster at this level, which is absolutely not going to be the case after this. Of particular note for this competition is Undersized Wild Shape, which she gets from a halfling substitution level. It means that, instead of being able to take small or medium animal forms, she can take tiny or small ones. That limits her options (an excellent choice is the Serval, from Sandstorm, which has a positive Str modifier and pounce) but it also means she gets to Wild Shape one more time per day, which is good, since Wild Shape is also not something she’ll be improving much. She’s also able to communicate in Wild Shape thanks to her racial pseudo-telepathy Speak Without Sound.

Level 10: Gren gets another version of pounce at level 7 when she can bind Landshark Boots to her totem chakra. Landshark Boots’ charge only works with claw attacks, but in addition to the serval--which is still the best small clawing form--she can get normal claws with Morphic Weapons, which means her Landshark Boots are invaluable. They’re also the reason she’s training up Jump. The main feature of Totem Rager (Totem Rage, obviously) really helps her piddly essentia capacity, letting her fuel the excellent Cobalt Rage feat with an extended capacity, also increased by the Improved Essentia Capacity feat. From here on out, she should be using her spells for buffing and out-of-combat healing, because they’re not much of a threat compared to her attacks; and Wild Shape is mostly good for travel and stealth, since she can get more powerful natural weapons in her notmal form.

Level 15: At this level, Gren gets her third and best pounce ability: Sphinx Claws, bound to her hands, which finally gives her pounce with all her natural weapons--and with Morphic Weapons, even used non-cheesily, that’s gonna be a lot of stuff. In addition, her Cobalt Charge feat means that all her natural attacks to extra damage on a charge, and Morphic Reach means they all stretch five extra feet, which is pretty great for a small character. Since she never gets improved versions of rage, she also picks up Reckless Rage here as a substitute.

Level 20: Gren is unfortunately one effective Totemist level away from getting a third chakra bind, so she takes Open Lesser Chakra for her last feat to simulate it. The standard soulmeld she uses with this feat is Girallon Arms, which, when bound to her arm chakra, give her rend with claw attacks--and she should have claw attacks, thanks to Morphic Weapons. She also gets Morphic Healing, which gives her a good reason to still be spending points on Concentration even though she’s not much of a spellcaster. Her damage reduction improves a little bit, and she gets another use of rage, but these last five levels are just about polishing up what she can already do.


Complete Champion: Warshaper
Magic of Incarnum: Totemist, Totem Rager, Cobalt Rage, Bonus Essentia, Improved Essentia Capacity, Cobalt Charge, Open Lesser Chakra
Races of Faerun: Ghostwise Halfling
Races of the Wild: Halfling Druid substitution level
Unearthed Arcana: Druidic Avenger alternate class

[WhamBamSam]

karrak, the travelling divine protector.

feral halfling shaman 3/totemist 2/shaman 4/ contemplative 10

karrak was a small orphan halfling child who wandered the forest after his convoy was attacked by bandits on the way to the city of azeral.
he came across a glade where he saw a pitfall, and in the pitfall he spotted a creature he did not recognise.
the creature hissed up at him in a language he did not understand, it looked angry, he felt sorry for it and gathered some vines to make a rope and threw it down into the pit.
the creature bounded up looked at him and ran off.
later that night cold and starving karrak looked at the sky as thunder struck and it started pouring with rain. with no shelter and no idea how to make a fire he knew he was going to die.
just then the felldrake returned, bringing with it a larger one who turned to the child and said in common, "you saved my son, i am here to return the favour".
he was then raised by the felldrakes, having no contact with the civilised world. having an affinity for the dragon kind he found a passing kobold who harnessed his inner energies to meld his shape.
he learned the basics of incarnum magic but found that he had limited capacity for it, soulmelding took him a very long tim to master, many years after he was taught the basics.
he was contacted by a dragon spirit who told him his true calling was in the divine magic of a shaman he learned how to pull divine power for the spirits and harness that power.
this coupled with his naturally feral nature from his lack of civilised contact made him the perfect protector.

one day the forrest had a cult of blighters enter it, and despite his best efforts the forrest was destroyed, and the felldrakes with it.
karrak wondered into the nearby city of azeral, angry and homeless he remembered from his childhood that people in the big building with the weird symbol on it were kind to others he headed there.
mustering a few lost words of common he asked the guy in the funny dress thing with the weird symbol on it for help.
after spending the night sleeping in a bed for the first time in 23 years he woke and prepared spells that allowed him to speak to the priest.
after telling of what had happened to the forest the priest gathered all the local clerics and druid pack and hunted down and killed all the blighters.
he then decided to travel and learn how to develop his divine potential, the draconic spirit contacted him regularly and though its blessings karrak became stronger then he ever was.
after 39 years of travelling and protecting the forests and creatures of the world he was given the final blessings the spirit could bestow and became perfect.

str - 16(14+4-2)+4=20
dex - 8 =8
con - 14(12+2) =14
int - 6(10-4) =6
wis - 18(16+2) +1 =19
cha - 14 =14

brackets are racial and templates, outside are level up points


Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st feral template - - - - - - Land speed +10 ft., +6 natural armour, 2x 1d6 claws, 2nd shaman 1 0 0 0 2 religion 5, dungeon 3(1.5), extend spell, persist spell, flaw - primary contact (religion) (murkey eyed), flaw - dmm persist (vunerable) improved grab, darkvision 60ft, fast healing 2, animal companion, hero domain, dragon domain, improved unarmed strike (feat) 3rd shaman 2 1 0 0 3 religion 6, dungeon 4(2) spirit sight 4th shaman 3 2 1 1 3 religion 7, dungeon 5(2.5) bonus essentia turn or rebuke undead 5th totemist 1 2 3 3 3 concentration 1, dungeon 6(3) pounce, fast healing 3, wild empathy, 2 soulmelds, 1 essentia 6th totemist 2 3 4 4 3 dungeon 8(4) totem chakra bind, 3 soulmelds, 2 essentia, 1 chakra bind 7th shaman 4 4 4 4 4 religion 9 scorpions grasp improved grapple 8th shaman 5 4 4 4 4 religion 11 spirits favor 9th shaman 6 5 5 5 5 religion 12 rake, darkvision 90ft, fast healing 4, 10th shaman 7 6 5 5 5 religion 13, concentration 2 ocular spell 11th contemplative 1 6 5 5 7 religion 14, concentration 3 travel domain (travel devotion), divine health 12th contemplative 2 7 5 5 8 religion 15, concentration 4 slippery mind 13th contemplative 3 7 6 6 8 religion 16, concentration 5 battle jump rend, darkvision 120ft, fast healing 5, divine wholeness 14th contemplative 4 8 6 6 9 religion 17, concentration 6 15th contemplative 5 8 6 6 9 religion 18, concentration 7 divine body 16th contemplative 6 9 7 7 10 religion 19, concentration 8 bonus essentia celerity domain 17th contemplative 7 9 7 7 10 religion 20, concentration 9 divine soul 18th contemplative 8 10 7 7 11 religion 21, concentration 10 19th contemplative 9 10 8 8 11 religion 22, concentration 11 extra turning eternal body 20th contemplative 10 11 8 8 12 religion 23, concentration 12 mystic union


i have not included any ability improving items

Spells per Day
Spells per Day


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
3
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
4
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
4
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
4
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
4
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
5
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
5
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
5
4+1
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
6
5+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-


11th
6
5+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
-
-
-
-
-


12th
6
5+1
5+1
4+1
3+1
1+1
-
-
-
-


13th
6
5+1
5+1
4+1
4+1
2+1
-
-
-
-


14th
6
5+2
5+1
5+1
4+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-


15th
6
5+2
5+1
5+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-


16th
6
5+2
5+2
5+1
5+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-


17th
6
5+2
5+2
5+1
5+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-


18th
6
5+2
5+2
5+2
5+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-


19th
6
5+2
5+2
5+2
5+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-


20th
6
5+2
5+2
5+2
5+2
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1



level 1 is represented as feral as it is the easiest way to show my template and its HD based benefits.
2-6 you gain 1st and 2nd level casting, and later get a totemist dip,
the totemist dip you shape and chakra bind girillion arms and pump it with all essentia. (for the purposes of this build the other two soulmelds do not matter).
you get casting as shaman 3, giving you access to a few nice spells,
good to persist/cast -
divine favour (persist)
bulls strength
magic fang
resist energy??
shield of faith??

you are essentially in these levels a good melee fighter, your natural armour and a light armour give you a pretty good AC on themselves.
with the buffs and a persisted buff you can get enough benefits to keep up with full BAB melee, as well as magical natural weapons.
you are pretty good at grappling, but you do not yet have improved grapple or scorpions grasp, so being small your improved grab should never work. its more of a backup strategy.

you have 4 claw attacks, two normal and two extra from totem girillion arms, as well as pounce.

7-10 you gain scorpions grasp, improved grapple, rake attacks and
later battle jump, in these levels you gain the grapplemancer parts of the build.
with hopefully a nightstick or two you gain more persistent buffs, but not really crucial, just nice to have.
your damage has increased quite a bit due to the rakes. meaning 6 attacks on the charge.
because you gain ocular spell at lvl 10 you can persist almost anything. now anything with persist next to it is recommended.

new spells good to persist/cast -
greater magic fang (persist)
air walk
divine power (persist)

11-15 you gain new levels of spells and a few new boosts to existing abilities, as well as gaining multiple immunities and defensive boosts through contemplative.
you gain travel domain.

new spells of note-
true seeing
stoneskin
Righteous Might

all are good for persisting

16-20
gaining 9th level casting, a bunch of great class abilities and the celerity domain,


spells of note -
haste
greater blink
giant size
cloak of chaos or any of the other alignment variations of it.
miracle
gate
shapechange
time stop
astro projection

just some of the top spells.

grapple modifier at level 20
str - +8 (with +6 item)
improved grapple +4
battle jump +4
giant size +16 +16
divine power +3
girrillion arms +12
base attack +19 (divine power)
+82 modifier (maybe more with select spells, but you would only gain a small amount, and other spells would be much more beneficial)




nothing special needed, just normal stuff, but on top of that as many nightsticks as possible.
an item to improve charisma is preferred soon in the build

[WhamBamSam]

Vutha the Female Lawful Evil Dark Desert Kobold Totemist 2 / Scout 3 / Rogue 14

Vutha looked up as a bell rang twice in the Hatchery, signalling that a group of adventurers had entered the false den that the All-watcher had set up together with the Sorcerers and trapcrafters, when establishing the mine a century past. Vutha made sure that the other fosterers took over for her duties and she entered the tiny tunnel that led from the Hatchery to a hidden hatch just below the ceiling in the fake hatchery getting ready to attack the intruders when they arrived.

The All-watcher had long since learned that the gear that could be taken off of Adventurers fetched a pretty price and might even be worth more than regular mining, their Den had cleaverly hidden tunnels, to small for humans, to four different locations in the surrounding area which were used to lure in Adventurers, and in the remote case that the entries to those tunnels were to be discovered it was Vutha's duty to make sure that the knowledge weren't spread. Preferably by making sure that there were noone alive to spread it.



Ability
Base
Racial Mod
Total


Strength
10
-4
6


Dexterity
18
+2
20


Constitution
12

12


Intelligence
14

14


Wisdom
12
-2
10


Charisma
8

8


all Ability score increases are to be placed in Dexterity



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Bluff 4, Climb 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Listen 4, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Spot 4, Tumble 4, Use Magic Device 4
Dragon Tail
Sneak Attack +1d6, Mimic 1/day


2nd
Rogue 2
+1
+0
+3
+0
Bluff 5, Climb 5, Hide 5, Jump 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Search 5, Spot 5, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 5

Evasion


3rd
Rogue 3
+2
+1
+3
+1
Bluff 6, Climb 6, Disguise 4, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Search 6, Use Magic Device 6
Weapon Finesse
Sneak Attack +2d6, Penetrating Strike, Draconic Rite of Passage (Persistent Blade)


4th
Rogue 4
+3
+1
+4
+1
Bluff 7, Climb 7, Disable Device 1, Disguise 7, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Seach 7, Use Magic Device 7

Disruptive Attack


5th
Totemist 1
+3
+3
+6
+1
Listen 7, Spot 7, Tumble 7

Wild Empathy, Skilled City-Dweller ACF


6th
Totemist 2
+4
+4
+7
+1
Listen 9, Spot 9, Tumble 9
Open Least Chakra (Hands)
Totem Chakra Bind


7th
Scout 1
+4
+4
+9
+1
Climb 10, Hide 10, Listen 10, Move Silently 8, Spot 10, Tumble 10

Skirmish +1d6, Trapfinding


8th
Scout 2
+5
+4
+10
+1
Hide 11, Listen 11, Move Silently 11, Search 10, Spot 11, Tumble 11

Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge


9th
Scout 3
+6
+5
+10
+2
Disable Device 4, Hide 12, Listen 12, Move Silently 12, Search 12, Spot 12, Tumble 12
Swift Ambusher
Skirmish (+1d6, +1AC) (+2d6, +2AC), Dungeon Specialist, Trackless Step


10th
Rogue 5
+6
+5
+10
+2
Bluff 10, Disable Device 5, Hide 13, Listen 13, Move Silently 13, Search 13, Spot 13, Tumble 13

Sneak Attack +3d6


11th
Rogue 6
+7
+6
+11
+3
Hide 14, Listen 14, Move Silently 14, Search 14, Spot 14, Tumble 14, Use Magic Device 11

Mimic 2/day, Skirmish (+3d6, +2AC)


12th
Rogue 7
+8
+6
+11
+3
Hide 15, Listen 15, Move Silently 15, Search 15, Spot 15, Tumble 15, Use Magic Device 15
Darkstalker
Sneak Attack +4d6


13th
Rogue 8
+9
+6
+12
+3
Disable Device 8, Hide 16, Listen 16, Move Silently 16, Search 16, Spot 16, Tumble 16, Use Magic Device 16

Improved Uncanny Dodge, Skirmish (+3d6, +3AC)


14th
Rogue 9
+9
+7
+12
+4
Disable Device 11, Hide 17, Listen 17, Move Silently 17, Search 17, Spot 17, Tumble 17, Use Magic Device 17

Sneak Attack +5d6, Mimic 3/Day


15th
Rogue 10
+10
+7
+13
+4
Disable Device 14, Hide 18, Listen 18, Move Silently 18, Search 18, Spot 18, Tumble 18, Use Magic Device 18
Multiattack, Draconic ReservoirB
Special Ability [Bonus Feat], Skirmish (+4d6, +3AC)


16th
Rogue 11
+11
+7
+13
+4
Disable Device 17, Hide 19, Listen 19, Move Silently 19, Search 19, Spot 19, Tumble 19, Use Magic Device 19

Sneak Attack +6d6


17th
Rogue 12
+12
+8
+14
+5
Disable Device 20, Hide 20, Listen 20, Move Silently 20, Search 20, Spot 20, Tumble 20, Use Magic Device 20

Mimic 4/day, Skirmish (+4d6, +4AC)


18th
Rogue 13
+12
+8
+14
+5
Disable Device 21, Disguise 9, Hide 21, Listen 21, Move Silently 21, Search 21, Spot 21, Tumble 21, Use Magic Device 21
Improved Skirmish
Special Ability [Skill Mastery: Hide, Move Silently, Tumble], Sneak Attack +7d6


19th
Rogue 14
+13
+8
+15
+5
Disable Device 22, Disguise 11, Hide 22, Listen 22, Move Silently 22, Search 22, Spot 22, Tumble 22, Use Magic Device 22

Skirmish (+5d6, +4AC)





Level
Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra Binds


5th
2
1
0


6th
3
2
1



Going by the ruling that Open ** Chakra gives a extra Chakra bind, and my default Soulmelds are as such:


Soulmeld
Type
Placement
Effect


Sphinx Claws
Bound
Hands
+1 on Strength Checks and Skill Checks; Pounce with Natural Weapons


Lamia Belt
Bound
Totem
+4 Competence on Bluff and Hide Checks (+2/Essentia); 2 Claws (1d3)


Wormtail Belt
Shaped
Waist
+2 Enhancement to Natural Armor (+1/Essentia)



At the end I'll have these natural weapons

1 Tail (1d4)
4 Claws (1d3)
1 Bite (1d2)

And additionally a Horned Helm (MiC p112) would do nicely giving me a Natural Gore attack (1d8),

My two key points is my Tumble and my Hide checks, both of which i'd be able to take 10 with.

Tumble:
10 (Take 10)
2 (Synergy from Jump)
7 (Dex Modifier)
22 (Skill Points)

Ending up beating a DC 40 before adding even the tiniest item adding Dex or skill bonus, this would make me able to make 10ft steps triggering Skirmish when charging aren't viable. (DC 40 for 10ft step is in Oriental Adventures)

The other key point is my Hide check which together with my Hide in Plain Sight (Dark Template) and Darkstalker makes it quite easy to Sneak Attack.

Hide:
10 (Take 10)
7 (Dex Modifier)
8 (Size Modifier, Kobolds get Slight build, so whenever its preferable i can count as tiny)
8 (Racial, Dark Template)
4 (Lamia Belt)
22 (Skill Points)
-20 (Hide while Attacking)
= 39 Spot check to negate my Sneak Attack, before items or Essentia to Lamia belt, adding up.



Source
Items Used


Cityscape Web Enhancemnet (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Skilled City-Dweller


Complete Scoundrel
Improved Skirmish, Swift Ambusher


Dungeonscape
Penetrating Strike (Rogue ACF)


Exemplars of Evil
Mimic (Rogue ACF)


Lords of Madness
Darkstalker


Magic of Incarnum
Totemist


Monster Manual
Multiattack


Players Handbook 2
Dungeon Specialist (Scout ACF), Disruptive Attack (Rogue ACF)


Races of the Dragon
Dragon Tail, Draconic Rite of Passage, 'Baseline' Kobold


Races of the Dragon Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)
Variant Kobold Traits, Draconic Reservoir


Spell Compendium
Persistant Blade


Tome of Magic
Dark Template


Unearthed Arcana
Desert Kobold variant

[WhamBamSam]

I think that's everyone. Feel free to post again.

[Sian]

surprisingly similar builds ... two Swift Ambushers, a Swift Hunter and 3 Totemists

[sakuuya]

surprisingly similar builds ... two Swift Ambushers, a Swift Hunter and 3 Totemists

And two wild-shapers. Sheesh. Anyway, gettin' 'em all in one place:

Horseless Harry, The Small Giant Human: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18613482&postcount=46) ? Silverbrow Human Small Giant Scout 4/Wilderness Rogue 16
Markas Sandtracker: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18613486&postcount=47) NG Whisper Gnome Scout 3/Ranger 8/Lion of Talsid 9
Gren Beastclaws: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18613489&postcount=48) N Ghostwise Halfling Druidic Avenger 5/Totemist 2/Warshaper 4/Totem Rager 9
Karrak, The Traveling Divine Protector: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18613492&postcount=49) ? Feral Halfling Shaman 7/Totemist 2/Contemplative 10
Vutha: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18613497&postcount=50) LE Dark Desert Kobold Totemist 2/Scout 3/Rogue 14

[Sian]

Should have had gone with my other plan ... Korobokuru Fighter/Deepwarden/Singh Rager (or something among those lines), with a regular übercharger setup

[sakuuya]

Yeah, I also had an alternate plan, something like Gnome Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 3/Geomamcer 10, which I didn't use because it felt too cheesy. Too bad, we could both be rolling in originality points right now...

[dysprosium]

I did not have any free time to get an entry in for this one.

My entry would have been simply a muckdweller Totemist 20.

[Dread_Head]

Work got on top of me but if I'd had time to enter I was going to do a variant on the killer kitty build such as
CE Tibbit Soulborn 2 / Druid (with both the unearthed arcana variants) 3 / Warshaper 1 / Lion of Talisid 5 / Warshaper +3 / ??? 6.

[sakuuya]

Would either of you non-entrants be able to judge?

[Dread_Head]

Nope, I've got exams all this week and coursework after that. Plus this was going to be the first competition of this sort I'd entered and I wouldn't feel capable of judging without having done a few entries first.

[WeaselGuy]

My original two ideas where a telflammar shadowlord and then a crinti shadow marauder, but didn't know if shadow pounce would've counted

[Sian]

My original two ideas where a telflammar shadowlord and then a crinti shadow marauder, but didn't know if shadow pounce would've counted

If i were jugding (which i'm not as i have an entry), I would probably have called those the same way as the Chair have called Travel Devotion, as they're dependent on you teleporting instead of actually charging

[sakuuya]

Nope, I've got exams all this week and coursework after that. Plus this was going to be the first competition of this sort I'd entered and I wouldn't feel capable of judging without having done a few entries first.

That's cool. I'm sorry you weren't able to participate, and good luck with your exams!

[MilesTiden]

My original idea for this was to have a Dragonborn (Wings) Dvati Mulhorandi Divine Minion of Bast Warblade 8/Totemist 5/Warshaper 4, using Fling Ally, Roof-jumper, and assorted White Raven charge boosting abilities to pull off a fastball special. Dvati 1 turns into a Lion, Dvati 2 turns into a Cat. Dvati 1 picks up Dvati 2 at some point as a move action, and carries him around until something needs obliteration. At that point, he tosses Dvati 2 300' into the air (with Far Shot and Gauntlets of Extended Range) as a standard action, and Dvati 2 falls, triggering Roof-jumper. Dvati 2 does a 4x Claw/Bite/4x Unarmed Strike attack routine (more with Warshaper shenanigans, but I'm not including that here), each of which deals 1d(whatever)+10+29d6. The Dragonborn Wings reduce the falling damage to nothing. Then, Dvati 1 uses his move action to move adjacent to the now landed Dvati 2 and shifts into a Cat as a free action. Dvati 2 then shifts into a Lion, and does the exact same trick again because the whole jump took none of his actions. In the same turn. If I wanted to be optimal, I would take out the Totemist, and have the respective falling Dvati turn into a Lion while falling, pouncing, raking, and generally murdering. However, that's against the spirit of the competition. :smalltongue:

Unfortunately, Dvati are so poorly written as to barely be functional, and it's entirely possible that Dragonborn just erases one twin. Oops. So it would require DM permission. Also, holiday season, depression, and birthday. Oops.

Anyways, if I have the time, I might judge.

[WeaselGuy]

If i were jugding (which i'm not as i have an entry), I would probably have called those the same way as the Chair have called Travel Devotion, as they're dependent on you teleporting instead of actually charging

Yeah, that's why I decided against using either of those ideas. I had another one too, but felt it tasted too much like the forbidden ingredient, without actually being the forbidden ingredient.

[sakuuya]

Yeah, that's why I decided against using either of those ideas. I had another one too, but felt it tasted too much like the forbidden ingredient, without actually being the forbidden ingredient.

Historically, I think only one judge (sideswipe, who has a build in this round) has penalized people for using similar parts to the forbidden component, and the chair at the time disagreed with that stance. It's cool if not using things similar to the forbidden component is one of your build goals, but it's not a required element of the Junkyard. I mean, heck, the very first JW was Sneak Attack (the Rogue's most iconic class ability) + Shadowdancer (a prestige class nominally aimed at Rogues) - Rogue. We would've all been penalized into the ground if using rogue-like classes was against the rules. :smalltongue:

I'm pretty sure I can identify your build now, though. Three down, two to go.

[sideswipe]

yeah if i ever judge again (its a lot of work) then i probably won't penalise for being like the forbidden component, unless....

[WeaselGuy]

Use of Components: Was the Forbidden Component avoided? Were the Necessary Components showcased, or simply used because they were necessary? Note: some judges deduct for things that still hold the feel of the Forbidden Ingredient, even if said ingredient itself is not used (ex: using savant levels when factotum is forbidden).

Yeah, I was just going off of this, since it was my first entry I figured I'd play it safe and stick to the letter of the rules as close as possible.

[sideswipe]

yeah no one would disagree that using savant when factotum is banned is a bit iffy on the forbidden component part.

[Troacctid]

I would disagree.

[WhamBamSam]

I would disagree as well, and Ponies disagreed when he was chairman, but he chose to leave it up to the judges' discretion and I just copied the OP from the last round he chaired. Perhaps in future competitions I'll change it to say that judges should not penalize for an ingredient too similar to the forbidden ingredient. What do people think?

[sideswipe]

if it is clearly defined and not left up to discretion then i would have no problem what so ever :smallsmile: it was just very vague when i judged, so i took it as my own take.

anyway, how many judges are there this round?

[sakuuya]

I would disagree as well, and Ponies disagreed when he was chairman, but he chose to leave it up to the judges' discretion and I just copied the OP from the last round he chaired. Perhaps in future competitions I'll change it to say that judges should not penalize for an ingredient too similar to the forbidden ingredient. What do people think?

I'm all for making it an official rule. Heck, I wouldn't mind if someone submitted a full Zinc Saucier build for the forbidden component, as long as it used the other components. That's not meant as offense to sideswipe, because it was indeed vague.

As for judges, we don't have any yet. If it comes to it, I'll drop out and judge so we can keep the competition going.

[WeaselGuy]

So... is this thing on track to be judged by the 18th? Do we even have any judges for it?

[sideswipe]

i don't have time to judge or i would drop out and do it, im moving house, job, training for a second job and a bunch of other things right now lol

[sakuuya]

I actually have judging like 80% done. If nobody comes forward by Friday, I'll drop out, just like I said, assuming Sam's okay with it. It's too bad, too--by my judging, I would've gotten third. :smalltongue:

Obviously, I won't be posting my own score, though. I'm still trying to decide whether I'll include my build for everyone's originality, though. If I don't, it can only help you guys. There's literally 0 chance that I don't share at least one class with another build.

[WhamBamSam]

I actually have judging like 80% done. If nobody comes forward by Friday, I'll drop out, just like I said, assuming Sam's okay with it. It's too bad, too--by my judging, I would've gotten third. :smalltongue:

Obviously, I won't be posting my own score, though. I'm still trying to decide whether I'll include my build for everyone's originality, though. If I don't, it can only help you guys. There's literally 0 chance that I don't share at least one class with another build.I'd say wait until the deadline before you drop out. I hate to see someone put the work in on a build only to have to give up on it after the reveal. So at least leave the most chance possible for someone else to come in and judge.

[sakuuya]

I'd say wait until the deadline before you drop out. I hate to see someone put the work in on a build only to have to give up on it after the reveal. So at least leave the most chance possible for someone else to come in and judge.

Fair enough. I may try to sniff out another judge in the meantime.

[sideswipe]

I'd say wait until the deadline before you drop out. I hate to see someone put the work in on a build only to have to give up on it after the reveal. So at least leave the most chance possible for someone else to come in and judge.

i agree with this, though post an honest review of your own build and i will accept it to be true. i say if all other contestants agree then you can stay entered, what do you say sam?

[WeaselGuy]

I agree as well, as long as it's a critical review (and by that, I mean analyzes both positive and negative aspects equally. Hell, I know I have issues with mine lol), I have no problems with it being included.

[WhamBamSam]

I think it sets a bad precedent to have a person both judge their own entry. It's not necessarily that I distrust sakuuya. I just don't want it to become a thing that's done, and don't want to have to make judgment calls about who is or isn't trustworthy in that regard.

I'd rather she not have to give up on her entry, but I think it's for the best to disqualify it should she end up judging.

[sakuuya]

I think it sets a bad precedent to have a person both judge their own entry. It's not necessarily that I distrust sakuuya. I just don't want it to become a thing that's done, and don't want to have to make judgment calls about who is or isn't trustworthy in that regard.

I'd rather she not have to give up on her entry, but I think it's for the best to disqualify it should she end up judging.

I actually agree with Sam. I think I'm very trustworthy, but he's right that it sets a bad precedent. It's much more open to being used for evil than the standard judging system. I'm flattered that my fellow entrants would trust me to do it, though.

[Sian]

in same boat as WBS on this one ...

[Malroth]

I concidered making an entry but you can't dungeon-bred a medium animal into a small one

[sakuuya]

Since you weren't able to enter, Malroth, would you consider judging?

[Malroth]

Why not, i've got books and free time.

[sakuuya]

Why not, i've got books and free time.

You are a lifesaver, or at least an all-that-time-I-spent-on-my-build saver.

[sideswipe]

You are a lifesaver, or at least an all-that-time-I-spent-on-my-build saver.

i would still be interested on your critique, possibly after the ranks have been decided. so that is doesn't count but your time judging is not entirely wasted

[sakuuya]

i would still be interested on your critique, possibly after the ranks have been decided. so that is doesn't count but your time judging is not entirely wasted

We'll see if I can be bothered to do all the fiddly checking I saved for last (like whether everybody has the right number of skill points and qualifies for their feats and PrCs) now that I don't feel obligated to do so. It's my least-favorite part of judging.

[sideswipe]

We'll see if I can be bothered to do all the fiddly checking I saved for last (like whether everybody has the right number of skill points and qualifies for their feats and PrCs) now that I don't feel obligated to do so. It's my least-favorite part of judging.

even without it, i would still like to hear what you have, so post what you have after the scores and i would personally appreciate it.

that does go for anyone else who entered and would give a fair critique

[WhamBamSam]

Hmm, well, there goes the deadline. Any word on potential judging?

[sakuuya]

I'd like to hear from Malroth first, but if he's out, I can finish my judging pretty quickly.

[Malroth]

well i'm following the thread and still have free time, so I can start judging as soon as the builds are posted.

[WhamBamSam]

The builds have already been posted. They're back on page 2.

[sideswipe]

well i'm following the thread and still have free time, so I can start judging as soon as the builds are posted.


The builds have already been posted. They're back on page 2.

just lol :smallbiggrin:

[Malroth]

.............:smallconfused:


Ok well i guess it's time to get to work then.

[Malroth]

Originality
With Originality I gave points for tricks I haven't seen,good backstory, Ingeneous use of classes and unusual ways of obtaining the ingredients, I subtracted points for old known cheese, the most obvious class and build for the ingredient (swift hunter/ambusher scout in this case), as well as for blatantly cheesy race pics, shallow backstory that only serves to justify cheese and non functional entry into the ingredient

Horseless Hary

His entry diddn't legaly obtain small size so he lost points for silverbrow human, His "backstory" was just a partially researched spell combination he paid to have small size for 5min sometime during second level. he used scout + swift ambusher but wilderness variant rogue was mildly original as was Lion warrior regional feat for obtaining pounce.

1.25/5


Markas Sandtracker

He used the most obvious base class as well as swifthunter but Lion of Talisad was very unexpected and the celestial Dire Lion companion was a nice touch as well.

2.5/5


Gren Beastclaws

Best backstory in the group combined with using Druidic Avenger to qualify for 2 very nice prestigue classes that are normally very hard to mix. She also made me learn Incarnum rules so that definately should count as an Originality +

4/5


Karrak

Divine Metamagic is Known old cheese, combined with required Nightstick stacking makes it rotten cheese, Backstory was inconsistent with build and was pretty much there to give you free domains via contemplative. Feral template on a strongheart halfling did take a lot of chutzpah so it wins you back some points, in this category anyway. You also got points back for Incarnum use.

0.75/5


Vutha

Dark template Dragonwrought Desert Kobold is a pretty big stretch of the Imagination, and you lost more for Swift Ambusher Scout, But Incarnum is shiny and blue so you won back some originality for that.

1.75/5



Elegance:
With Elegance I tried to answer "how welcome would this be at table's i've seen" Points were gained for simple easy to follow builds without complex weaving of levels, good synergy of class features Easy to read and follow snapshots and explanations were also a plus. Points were Lost for Cheese of any sort, Xp penalties, Flaws, and formatting problems that made their build difficult to research, as well as anything BOED/BOEF/BOVD since they're so restrictive on other peoples
playstyles.



Horseless Hary

HorselessHary got points for only using 2 base classes and gained points for the Swift Ambusher dual scout progression, However his Return to nature/
polymorph entry took a huge hit for a non functioning entry to one of the ingredients and he took another hit for assuming borrowing a +int item or
receiving fox's cunning would work for skill mastery. He also lost points for Mixing a reigonal feat from one setting with required material from other settings
His writeup was a wash due to a lack of a low level snapshot as was his progression due to some confusing weaving happening in the mid levels. Fanged ring variant
would have been another major hit but since it was optional it was ignored.

2.25/5


Markas Sandtracker

He gained points for Swifthunter scout synergy and for the team benefits a powerful mount can bring but he lost points for having a multiclass XP penalty
and for his complete lack of sources in his writeup and for bringing Exaulted to the table
2.5/5


Gren Beastclaws

Took elegance hits for a 2lv dip, for having Multiclass xp penalties and for unexplained weaving of Warshaper and Totem Rager levels but gets a bonus for
the near perfect build explaination and a large bonus for how beautifully druidic avenger got her into both prestigue classes.

3.0/5


Karrak

Two big hits for 2 flaws, big hit for nightstick stacking, big hit for an almost useless mechanics writeup,Hit for Feral template, hit for xp penalties.

0.0/5


Vutha

small hit for kobolds being cheese flavored, Hit for dark template, hit for the totemist dip, hit for the multiclass xp penalty, Bonus points for Swift ambusher
the good cross refrenced writeup and for only using base classes

2.5/5



POWER
I ran all entrants though Jaronk's sample encounters for determining tiers and tried out all the tricks i could find in their build besides UMD wand spam.
the three sample encounters were
1) a trap filled dungeon leading up to an encounter with a Wyrm Black Dragon vs the lv 20 snapshot of the build.
2) Infiltrating a Paranoid Lawful evil city and locating and befriending members of the Resistance
3) Preparing a village for imminent invasion from an army of Orcs.

Horseless Hary

1) lack of sensory and trap skills had him contributing little to a parties trek through a maze of traps, he does have high mobility and knowledge skills so
there is a chance that those could be helpful. Vs the dragon his low stealth prevented any meaningful use of sneak attack but he served quite well as
a charge melee monster anyway dealing a little over half health on an average group of rolls with no crits.
2) Knowledge skills can be quite helpful in identifying resistance members, secret police infiltrators, and knowing the exact legal channels to gain
legitimate entry to the city, Harry would be moderately helpful without overshadowing others.
3)Heavy knowledge skills could agian be useful here for identifying invasion routes, knowing orc leadership and tactics, and he makes a great frontliner
once the battle starts.

Summary: High tier 4/low3 with a heavy emphasis on combat but is very good at combat, has enough skills to at least contribute to non combat situations

3.5/5


Markus Sandtracker

1)Great sensory skills and disposable trap monkeys make him an ok anti trap unit if prepared in advance, against the dragon he faired very poorly,
needing 5+ full attack charges to take down the dragon and having little means to escape far enough to pounce more than once in the fight.
2)Can see through disguises with high spot, Is Exaulted so might get additonal help from good aligned orgizinations in the city.
3)Massive survival and scouting abilities would easily allow him to lead villagers to safety, can track down orc scouting parties and assasinate leadership

Summary: Low tier 4 skill monkey with focus on wilderness skills, contributes well to some situations but is lacking in combat options.


3.0/5

Gren Beastclaws

1)wildshape combined with warshaper allows her to bypass all mundane traps and most published magic traps without effort or detection, how she faired
vs the dragon varied based on wildshape form and warshaper weapons added but with a bit of optimization in gear she could threaten a 1hko on
a surprise round.
2)Infiltration as a mouse, speak with animals to gain information undetected, magical shapeshifting for clandestine meetings, unlimited flight for
when things get hairy and she needs to make a getaway. Meldshapes makde great improv abilities to suppulement other skills.
3) Contagion,sleet storm, soften earth and stone,summon swarm can all kill hundreds if used at the perfect time and Gren can infiltrate effortlessly
to wait for that time, if she's feeling paticularly bored or impatient she could shift to a large form, extend her reach by an additonal 15 feet and
just melee 150 orcs to death per round

Summary: Although watered down with meldshaping She still has enough of her druid roots to play as a Tier 2 even when limited to low lv spells.

4.5/5

Karrak

1) Karrak is a tier 1 DMM caster with a +tier prestigue class, he could potentially kill the dragon before breakfast from some other plane if he felt like it
2) Miracle for a scroll of ice assasin of rebel leader, ask copy where original is, finish breakfast.
3) Shapechange to Shadesteel Golem.

Summary: Tier 1 his build assumed all the buffs all the time and all the spells ever so yes you win this category.
5.0/5

Vutha

1)Full trapmonkey skills combined with unbeatable stealth makes the dungeon crawl look easy, Enough stealth to sneak attack the dragon and HIPS away unscathed, Improved evasion to negate breath attacks combined with her SLA from draconic rite of passage makes this a uphill battle for the dragon even without other party members.
2)No guard patrol in the world would be able to stop vutha from infiltrating the city, once inside she has incredible detection skills and a solid bluff modifier
3)Undetectable assasian stabby stabby.

Summary Tier 3 skill monkey, she has a trick that's useful in almost all situations and is still useful when that trick is countered
3.75/5



Use of the Ingredients.
Do you truely benefit from being small? does your party role need Pounce to function? how quickly did you get the ingredients?

Hary Horseless

big Hit for Not qualifying for the "small" ingredient, Small hit because his build would function better as medium sized untill he hits lv 20 or parties with
a lv 20 buffer. Bonus for being an ubercharger thus needing pounce, Bonus for qualifying at lv 1.

2.0/5

Markas Sandtracker

Hit for late pounce, Hit for small size effectively halving your accuracy due to duel weild mechanics, bonus for having an effective pounce capable
animal companion. Bonus for pounce being the only thing you can do well.

2.75/5

gren

Bonus for the multiple pounce sources, Bonus for the extra utility you get from your size, bonus for the ability to become tiny and still fight. Some would dock you for being barbarian flavored but i'm all for Imitation crab made from fish in my sushi.

3.75/5

Karrak

hit for race being irrevelent to effectiveness, big hit for pounce being irrevelent to effectiveness, bonus for obtaining pounce at lv 1

1.0/5

Vutha

Big bonus for how well you capitalize on your size, big bonus how you use pounce to negate your weaknesses from your size, bonus for slight build.

4.5/5

[WeaselGuy]

Originality
With Originality I gave points for tricks I haven't seen,good backstory, Ingeneous use of classes and unusual ways of obtaining the ingredients, I subtracted points for old known cheese, the most obvious class and build for the ingredient (swift hunter/ambusher scout in this case), as well as for blatantly cheesy race pics, shallow backstory that only serves to justify cheese and non functional entry into the ingredient

Horseless Hary

His entry diddn't legaly obtain small size so he lost points for silverbrow human, His "backstory" was just a partially researched spell combination he paid to have small size for 5min sometime during second level. he used scout + swift ambusher but wilderness variant rogue was mildly original as was Lion warrior regional feat for obtaining pounce.

1.25/5


Markas Sandtracker

He used the most obvious base class as well as swifthunter but Lion of Talisad was very unexpected and the celestial Dire Lion companion was a nice touch as well.

2.5/5


Gren Beastclaws

Best backstory in the group combined with using Druidic Avenger to qualify for 2 very nice prestigue classes that are normally very hard to mix. She also made me learn Incarnum rules so that definately should count as an Originality +

4/5


Karrak

Divine Metamagic is Known old cheese, combined with required Nightstick stacking makes it rotten cheese, Backstory was inconsistent with build and was pretty much there to give you free domains via contemplative. Feral template on a strongheart halfling did take a lot of chutzpah so it wins you back some points, in this category anyway. You also got points back for Incarnum use.

0.75/5


Vutha

Dark template Dragonwrought Desert Kobold is a pretty big stretch of the Imagination, and you lost more for Swift Ambusher Scout, But Incarnum is shiny and blue so you won back some originality for that.

1.75/5



Elegance:
With Elegance I tried to answer "how welcome would this be at table's i've seen" Points were gained for simple easy to follow builds without complex weaving of levels, good synergy of class features Easy to read and follow snapshots and explanations were also a plus. Points were Lost for Cheese of any sort, Xp penalties, Flaws, and formatting problems that made their build difficult to research, as well as anything BOED/BOEF/BOVD since they're so restrictive on other peoples
playstyles.



Horseless Hary

HorselessHary got points for only using 2 base classes and gained points for the Swift Ambusher dual scout progression, However his Return to nature/
polymorph entry took a huge hit for a non functioning entry to one of the ingredients and he took another hit for assuming borrowing a +int item or
receiving fox's cunning would work for skill mastery. He also lost points for Mixing a reigonal feat from one setting with required material from other settings
His writeup was a wash due to a lack of a low level snapshot as was his progression due to some confusing weaving happening in the mid levels. Fanged ring variant
would have been another major hit but since it was optional it was ignored.

2.25/5


Markas Sandtracker

He gained points for Swifthunter scout synergy and for the team benefits a powerful mount can bring but he lost points for having a multiclass XP penalty
and for his complete lack of sources in his writeup and for bringing Exaulted to the table
2.5/5


Gren Beastclaws

Took elegance hits for a 2lv dip, for having Multiclass xp penalties and for unexplained weaving of Warshaper and Totem Rager levels but gets a bonus for
the near perfect build explaination and a large bonus for how beautifully druidic avenger got her into both prestigue classes.

3.0/5


Karrak

Two big hits for 2 flaws, big hit for nightstick stacking, big hit for an almost useless mechanics writeup,Hit for Feral template, hit for xp penalties.

0.0/5


Vutha

small hit for kobolds being cheese flavored, Hit for dark template, hit for the totemist dip, hit for the multiclass xp penalty, Bonus points for Swift ambusher
the good cross refrenced writeup and for only using base classes

2.5/5



POWER
I ran all entrants though Jaronk's sample encounters for determining tiers and tried out all the tricks i could find in their build besides UMD wand spam.
the three sample encounters were
1) a trap filled dungeon leading up to an encounter with a Wyrm Black Dragon vs the lv 20 snapshot of the build.
2) Infiltrating a Paranoid Lawful evil city and locating and befriending members of the Resistance
3) Preparing a village for imminent invasion from an army of Orcs.

Horseless Hary

1) lack of sensory and trap skills had him contributing little to a parties trek through a maze of traps, he does have high mobility and knowledge skills so
there is a chance that those could be helpful. Vs the dragon his low stealth prevented any meaningful use of sneak attack but he served quite well as
a charge melee monster anyway dealing a little over half health on an average group of rolls with no crits.
2) Knowledge skills can be quite helpful in identifying resistance members, secret police infiltrators, and knowing the exact legal channels to gain
legitimate entry to the city, Harry would be moderately helpful without overshadowing others.
3)Heavy knowledge skills could agian be useful here for identifying invasion routes, knowing orc leadership and tactics, and he makes a great frontliner
once the battle starts.

Summary: High tier 4/low3 with a heavy emphasis on combat but is very good at combat, has enough skills to at least contribute to non combat situations

3.5/5


Markus Sandtracker

1)Great sensory skills and disposable trap monkeys make him an ok anti trap unit if prepared in advance, against the dragon he faired very poorly,
needing 5+ full attack charges to take down the dragon and having little means to escape far enough to pounce more than once in the fight.
2)Can see through disguises with high spot, Is Exaulted so might get additonal help from good aligned orgizinations in the city.
3)Massive survival and scouting abilities would easily allow him to lead villagers to safety, can track down orc scouting parties and assasinate leadership

Summary: Low tier 4 skill monkey with focus on wilderness skills, contributes well to some situations but is lacking in combat options.


3.0/5

Gren Beastclaws

1)wildshape combined with warshaper allows her to bypass all mundane traps and most published magic traps without effort or detection, how she faired
vs the dragon varied based on wildshape form and warshaper weapons added but with a bit of optimization in gear she could threaten a 1hko on
a surprise round.
2)Infiltration as a mouse, speak with animals to gain information undetected, magical shapeshifting for clandestine meetings, unlimited flight for
when things get hairy and she needs to make a getaway. Meldshapes makde great improv abilities to suppulement other skills.
3) Contagion,sleet storm, soften earth and stone,summon swarm can all kill hundreds if used at the perfect time and Gren can infiltrate effortlessly
to wait for that time, if she's feeling paticularly bored or impatient she could shift to a large form, extend her reach by an additonal 15 feet and
just melee 150 orcs to death per round

Summary: Although watered down with meldshaping She still has enough of her druid roots to play as a Tier 2 even when limited to low lv spells.

4.5/5

Karrak

1) Karrak is a tier 1 DMM caster with a +tier prestigue class, he could potentially kill the dragon before breakfast from some other plane if he felt like it
2) Miracle for a scroll of ice assasin of rebel leader, ask copy where original is, finish breakfast.
3) Shapechange to Shadesteel Golem.

Summary: Tier 1 his build assumed all the buffs all the time and all the spells ever so yes you win this category.
5.0/5

Vutha

1)Full trapmonkey skills combined with unbeatable stealth makes the dungeon crawl look easy, Enough stealth to sneak attack the dragon and HIPS away unscathed, Improved evasion to negate breath attacks combined with her SLA from draconic rite of passage makes this a uphill battle for the dragon even without other party members.
2)No guard patrol in the world would be able to stop vutha from infiltrating the city, once inside she has incredible detection skills and a solid bluff modifier
3)Undetectable assasian stabby stabby.

Summary Tier 3 skill monkey, she has a trick that's useful in almost all situations and is still useful when that trick is countered
3.75/5



Use of the Ingredients.
Do you truely benefit from being small? does your party role need Pounce to function? how quickly did you get the ingredients?

Hary Horseless

big Hit for Not qualifying for the "small" ingredient, Small hit because his build would function better as medium sized untill he hits lv 20 or parties with
a lv 20 buffer. Bonus for being an ubercharger thus needing pounce, Bonus for qualifying at lv 1.

2.0/5

Markas Sandtracker

Hit for late pounce, Hit for small size effectively halving your accuracy due to duel weild mechanics, bonus for having an effective pounce capable
animal companion. Bonus for pounce being the only thing you can do well.

2.75/5

gren

Bonus for the multiple pounce sources, Bonus for the extra utility you get from your size, bonus for the ability to become tiny and still fight. Some would dock you for being barbarian flavored but i'm all for Imitation crab made from fish in my sushi.

3.75/5

Karrak

hit for race being irrevelent to effectiveness, big hit for pounce being irrevelent to effectiveness, bonus for obtaining pounce at lv 1

1.0/5

Vutha

Big bonus for how well you capitalize on your size, big bonus how you use pounce to negate your weaknesses from your size, bonus for slight build.

4.5/5


Went ahead and totaled up the points for clarity's sake, then put them in order:

Gren Beastclaws: 15.25/20
Vutha: 12.5/20
Markas Sandtracker: 10.75/20
Horseless Harry: 9/20
Karrak: 6.75/20

edit: Also, thank you, very much, for judging, so that our time making these wasn't completely wasted :D On a personal level, it was nice reading a critique from someone who doesn't know me, and won't hold back punches reviewing my character. This will really help when I enter future competitions :smallsmile:

[WhamBamSam]

Thanks for judging Marloth. And thanks to WeaselGuy for compiling the scores. I'll just put them into a nice pretty table.

Build Score Place
Gren Beastclaws 15.25 1st
Vultha 12.5 2nd
Markas Sandtracker 10.75 3rd
Horseless Harry 9 4th
Karrak 6.75 5th

I'll give until 11:59 GMT for dispute time.

[Malroth]

The real killer for Markus vs the dragon was his accuracy, Shortswords aren't light weapons for gnomes so the to hit penalty meant he needed a 13+ to hit the dragon with his first Iteratives even with his lion giving him a flanking bonus. (after adding +5 inherent +6 enhancement to dex, and +5 bane weapons since it is a lv 20 going after a dragon)

[Sian]

Shortswords aren't light weapons for gnomes

Eh ... as long as they're prober size (small) theres nothing explictly saying that gnomes are unable to use shortswords as light weapons, as they're classed as such

you're mixing up 3e and 3.5e here

[MilesTiden]

Err, short swords are light weapons regardless of size. Weapon classification only is different with size in 3.0, in 3.5 small short swords are still light weapons, they just deal 1d4 damage instead of 1d6.

[Malroth]

well that effectively doubles his DPR, too bad it'd still take him 3 charges to win while he has no defenses or escape mechanics in place.

[Sian]

as well as anything BOED/BOEF/BOVD since they're so restrictive on other peoples playstyles.

Just, minor tidbit ... Book of Erotic Fantasy is 3'd party book (even if one of the authors have been one of WoTC's editors, and main writer on a few) hence you wouldn't see it around anyhows. Its only good for how discussing how Chastity shouldn't be default for LG Paladin, and some RP opotunities on how different races default view is on sexuality (and possible crossbreeding / gestation times)

[WeaselGuy]

Hmm, I don't know how much it would help Markas's scores, but, out of curiosity, would he still be able to skirmish while wild shaped? If so, I would think that wild shaping into something more potent to a dragon than a Gnome with shortswords might help out >.>

[Sian]

in that case i'd say the cook should have had to find whatever large animal that might be the best for it, instead of expecting whomever to figure out if its even better and then follow up with ideas of which large animal (fluffwise, preferably feline) would be the most worthwhile

[WeaselGuy]

in that case i'd say the cook should have had to find whatever large animal that might be the best for it, instead of expecting whomever to figure out if its even better and then follow up with ideas of which large animal (fluffwise, preferably feline) would be the most worthwhile

That's a fair enough statement, even though assumptions were made with regard to Gren's shapeshifting, even though the only wild shape mentioned was the serval. But, I guess, wild shape was mentioned more in Gren's build than in Markas's.

[sakuuya]

Well, hey, I did better than I thought. Or worse. Or the same! I'm not saying which build is mine, is the point. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for judging, Malroth!

One more point of order, no one can get below a 1.0 in a category except for 0 elegance in the case of an illegal build. So karrak should have another 1.25 coming to him from his elegance and originality.

Mr. Chairman, I'll be beaming my HM vote to you momentarily.

[Malroth]

If Markas had pointed out he had wildshape and used it when needed he would probably have gotten an extra .5 each in power and use of secret ingredient.

[WeaselGuy]

Level 15 - At level 15, Markas has finally acquired his Dire Lion animal companion, and it is now an Exalted Companion. He has also begun to be able to Wild Shape a few times per day.

As far as I can see, it wasn't mentioned more than once, and no specific animal was put forth, but it was mentioned

[sakuuya]

As far as I can see, it wasn't mentioned more than once, and no specific animal was put forth, but it was mentioned

Seconded. He made less of a mention than Gren did, but since she got other points for a solid write-up, Markas should get the same bonuses for Wildshape.

[Sian]

*tries prodding WBS* ... any disputes around or moving on`?

[sakuuya]

Also, any hints on the coming round?

[Sian]

I'm still kinda hoping for the idea i've aired a few times ... Cloaked Dancer (CS) + Spelldancer (MoF) without Bard or Jester (later because its to similar to Bard)

[sakuuya]

I would certainly be up for that. Dual-PrC rounds are tricky, but these go together more than Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler did.

[Sian]

specially since they have a thematic (if not mechanic) fit, a far cry from dartboard selection

Don't have anything against dual PRC, as long as they fit together thematicly in some way

[WeaselGuy]

Sounds fun

[WhamBamSam]

Some disputes for you, Marloth.


Feedback for the judge from Horseless Harry:

Originality
Horseless Hary
His entry diddn't legaly obtain small size so he lost points for silverbrow human
Please explain what was illegal about this approach.

Elegance:
polymorph entry took a huge hit for a non functioning entry to one of the ingredients and he took another hit for assuming borrowing a +int item or
receiving fox's cunning would work for skill mastery.
There was no statement about borrowing any item; instead, buying a standard +INT item as gear was stated. Again, please explain what was illegal about this approach. Skill Mastery lets the Rogue master a number of skills dependent on their INT modifier, not their INT modifier with spells or magic items excluded.

He also lost points for Mixing a reigonal feat from one setting with required material from other settings
Education is in Eberron Campaign Setting, but it's a [General] feat not specific to the Eberron setting.

POWER
Vs the dragon his low stealth prevented any meaningful use of sneak attack
What do you mean by "low stealth"? Horseless Harry has Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight, maximum (23) ranks in Hide, and 10 ranks in Move Silently, with a +5 DEX modifier (before equipment). He's also specifically immune to Dragon Frightful Presence thanks to Uncanny Bravery.

Use of the Ingredients.
big Hit for Not qualifying for the "small" ingredient, Small hit because his build would function better as medium sized untill he hits lv 20 or parties with
a lv 20 buffer.
Please explain the bolded part. The base unarmed damage from Superior Unarmed Strike is independent of character size, so being Medium size would not make any improvement. Also the maximum benefit from Greater Mighty Wallop is a function of caster level, which typically is boosted above spellcaster's class level and thus available below level 20.



Dark template Dragonwrought Desert Kobold is a pretty big stretch of the Imagination

Dragonwrought? ... there's no Dragonwrought around here


small hit for kobolds being cheese flavored,

See above, no Dragonwrought makes it rather light on cheese, if not outright lactose free IMHO


hit for the totemist dip

Not sure i would call it a dip as its a quite important part of my build, giving me both more Natual Attacks, which i'm allready stacking, Pounce for NAs and higher Hide bonus


hit for the multiclass xp penalty

there's no xp penalty. Desert Kobold have Rogue as favored class (hence ignored for the purposes of figuring out if you have multiclass penalty), and Totemist and Scout are never more than one level appart, hence not giving me a penalty


*Inset generic Power score comments*

Not quite sure i argee on your stand that higher Tier should semi-automaticly mean higher Power ... IMHO it should depend on how good the character is at its chosen role rather than effectively handing out penalties for not being Wizard/Cleric/Druid


originality

the judge seems to believe that learning the first lesson in a base class gives level 1. in the D&D fluff a person works hard for a few years alone or at least a few months to be recognised as a novice.
for casting classes this is even more, wizards and clerics take many years to develop enough mastery to get spells. same with totemists.

as a shaman i was taught and therefore mastered it quicker and had more understanding, whereas i was shown a few basic bits of totemist and soulmelding. both being at a similar time i would have learned how to use shaman powers before my self taught "homework" of developing soulmelding. this is why it took so long in the build to get soulmelding, because i was self taught after a few basics and it took years to develop.

i thought the judge would have appreciated the subtly of this attention to detail. though i understand he was rushed.

the same sort of principle goes for contemplative. it requires a deity (or the shamans spirits) coming themselves and talking to me, this is why i chose that way. i was taught by the spirits themselves, not an older shaman. so the deity developed me itself. and my devotion to what it told me to do was what made me go contemplative, i continued to serve them devotedly for my entire life.

(im not even going to argue about DMM and nightsticks).

elegance

he has hit me in two different categories for nightstick stacking, aren't you only meant to penalise once for any one thing?
it may not be a fully written rule but in iron chef and a couple of previous junkyards i have watched it has been a bit faux pas to penalise repeatedly for the same offence.

i do not see how my write up is useless. my mundane abilities are obvious and any abilities i get that make a difference to the way i would fight i mention, and i point out all the spells that i would cast or persist (differentiating the two) to boost my combat abilities as a gish.

what else would you need in a write up? without reams upon reams of potentially pointless math. i do the math for my grappling which is a big part of my build as a grapplemancer.
my build has many many ways of defeating things, as the judge says DMM and nightsticks is old cheese, which means he is familiar with its uses, powers, the classes that use it, how they use it and why it makes things so powerful, so i don't understand why he would need more information than i have given.

how have i been hit for feral template? that was not in his elegance judging rules, and i have no XP penalties at all in my build.
i take the feral template as a level adjustment. its not an XP penalty. its as if i took a class level in a class that gives those abilities. and there is absolutely no rule against a template in the judging rules. thats like saying there is a penalty for not being a 0LA race. i gave reasons in my backstory for why i am feral and it is not as if it is obscure and non justified.

i am not querying the flaws, they make sense and i knew that would happen.


power

just want to say thankyou.


use of secret ingredients

he has completely ignored that my build is a gish with lots of natural attacks, that then uses grappling via improved grap to hold the opponents that do survive. this makes pounce a very big part of my build, all my spells are used to improve my grappling abilities and my hit and damage abilities.

i think he has ignored that entire part of my build and just assumed i was a DMM persist clericzilla.
i built the build with pounce and grappling multiple opponents in mind. and used the shamans natural abilities at it and the cool spells it gets that accents this play style well. since 3.5 has been solved and almost everything is old now it is known to those who know the shaman class well that it lends itself to grapplers and gishes well. along with natural attacks.
and it works much better for feral or uncivilised races rather than cleric due to its fluff. meaning my feral template is justfied again. clerics are book learned shamans rarely are.

halfling was used because it was small and has an extra feat, as much as i don't like it i accept that it has taken a hit for that.

last note - i understand the judging had to be rushed so i do not blame malroth for overlooking a few points of my build, but i feel he looked at the build and just thought "clericzilla with shaman instead". if he had more time i think he may have seen the more subtle points of my build, it took me 30 hours or more to write as i wove it with love and care, this i think made a few points which i have now outlined a little hard to spot with a casual glance.

[Sian]

Quote Originally Posted by Malroth
He also lost points for Mixing a reigonal feat from one setting with required material from other settings
Education is in Eberron Campaign Setting, but it's a [General] feat not specific to the Eberron setting.

i believe i can answer this ... Education is in Eberron Campaign setting ... Lion Tribe warrior is in Forgotten Realms: Shining South

Also in Forgotten Realms (Campaign Setting) is the feat Education ... which have additional prerequsites (regions, none of which playing well with Lion Tribe Warrior), which you don't qualify for. Hence either you by the strictest reading are mixing settings or if ignoring that, you still have a ftq on the feat as there is setting specific additional prerequsistes

[WhamBamSam]

i believe i can answer this ... Education is in Eberron Campaign setting ... Lion Tribe warrior is in Forgotten Realms: Shining South

Also in Forgotten Realms (Campaign Setting) is the feat Education ... which have additional prerequsites (regions, none of which playing well with Lion Tribe Warrior), which you don't qualify for. Hence either you by the strictest reading are mixing settings or if ignoring that, you still have a ftq on the feat as there is setting specific additional prerequsistesHe's saying that while the current version of Education is in an Eberron book, there's nothing Eberron specific about it, and arguing that it shouldn't be considered cross-setting in a Faerun build in the same way that a Dragonmark would be. That's up to Marloth to decide for the purposes of this contest, of course.

Please refrain from too much "peanut gallery" commenting on the judging/dispute process guys. The contest is anonymous for a reason.

[sakuuya]

Can I keep badgering you for hints on the next contest, though?

[Deadline]

I would certainly be up for that. Dual-PrC rounds are tricky, but these go together more than Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler did.

YOU WOULD DARE QUESTION THE CORRECTNESS OF EL CHUPACABRA'S CHOICE IN CLASSES? EL CHUPACABRA WILL BREAK YOU!

(But yeah, themed components are much easier to build to.)

[WhamBamSam]

Can I keep badgering you for hints on the next contest, though?Feel free. Just try to keep talk about what may or may not be legal in the builds to the dispute process.

I'm still torn between choices. There are some random things that I'm currently enamored with, and I got a few ideas from Ponies when he gave up the mantle of chairman. We'll see.

[sideswipe]

survivor and human, no commoner

[sakuuya]

I'm still torn between choices. There are some random things that I'm currently enamored with, and I got a few ideas from Ponies when he gave up the mantle of chairman. We'll see.

Hey, that's not a hint! :smalltongue:

[WhamBamSam]

Any response to the disputes Malroth? I'd like to close this round out and start a new one this weekend.

[sakuuya]

I'm worried that we scared him off with the fervor of our disputes. :smallfrown:

[sideswipe]

since i am moving house in the next 2 weeks, if the components are to good to refuse then i will enter if not i will judge.

[madtinker]

I've been lurking and reading, and learning a lot. I never got an entry together because I couldn't find a way to get pounce that I really liked. I was looking for a small predator with pounce; then I would have done something like halfling-lycanthrope. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a small animal with pounce (though I think I could get a DM to houserule that cats should have pounce).

[Sian]

so ... answers for disputes anytime soon?

[WhamBamSam]

so ... answers for disputes anytime soon?I sent Malroth a PM and he's been online since then. Hopefully we'll have responses soon and I can close out the contest.

Unless I absolutely can't come up with anything to go with it or forbid, one of next round's ingredients has been picked. The hint is that it's a casting PrC from Races of Stone which is not Shadowcraft Mage.

[Sian]

Given that there is a total of 4 caster prestige classes of 5 levels deep, in Races of Stone, and you already said its not one of those ......

[WhamBamSam]

Well, I've sent Malroth another PM, but I haven't heard anything from him and it seems likely that he won't be responding to disputes.

I don't want to just leave outstanding disputes sitting if there's a chance they might affect placing (and there is from what I can tell), so I'm disinclined to just close the competition.

Is there anyone else who would be willing to judge? I'm bogged down and already moving way too slowly on judging the Home Cooking round, so it might take me a long while to produce a chair-judging. Do we have any other ideas on how to handle this?

[sakuuya]

I can still do it. I don't want to, because, augh, I was so close to being able to stay in! But if no other solution presents itself, I'd rather drop out than have this linger indefinitely.

[Troacctid]

I can judge if you give me a couple days.

[sakuuya]

If you don't have a build in the competition, I'd really appreciate it if you'd judge. The couple days part isn't a problem for me either--it'll just get us more staggered with IC.

If you do have a build, though, I may as well drop out instead of you, since I've already done most of my judging.

[Troacctid]

I didn't enter this round, so I'm clear.

Eh, here, you know what, I'll do it now.

Scoring is done holistically, and at a low granularity. I don't go for a lot of finicky fractions and stuff. For the most part, you're a 2, a 3, or a 4. If you're offensively bad, I might go down to 1, and you'd have to really impress me to get a 5.
Originality: Uncommon and out-of-the-box options and an interesting concept score you points here. You'll lose points if you don't have those things. Well-known cheese might get you docked here too. I don't penalize the Vizzini effect, so it doesn't matter if other contestants shared your ideas--if it's a good idea, you can both get points for it.
Power: My baseline here is high T4/low T3, somewhere around the level of a single-classed Dragonfire Adept, give or take. That's worth a 3. If you're more of a low T4, like a Barbarian, that's a 2. If you hit high T3, that's a 4. And T1 gets you a 5, but usually that's hard to do without losing points in other categories.
Elegance: Cheese, errors, and questionable rules interpretations are some of the things that can lose you points in this category. You also lose points for negative synergy, multiclass xp penalties, disparities between fluff and crunch, and other ugly or awkward things that make me frown. I'm looking for pieces adding up to more than the sum of their parts here.
Use of Components: I want to see you combining the components in a way that makes them feel like they naturally make sense together. If your build is good at pouncing, but has a small-size race tacked on as an afterthought, you will taste my wrath. On the other hand, if your build's pouncing ability is intrinsically linked to its small size, you will taste a fresh batch of cookies that I've baked for you.

Originality: 2
This is a pretty standard Swift Ambusher ubercharger. You don't really do anything unusual with it.

Power: 2
You can do a decent amount of damage on a charge if you have the initiative, but on the whole, I'm not impressed. Sneak attacks are inherently unreliable--you don't have a consistent way to flank or flat-foot your enemies (Hide in Plain Sight is cool and all, but you can't eat the -20 penalty and still expect it to work all the time), and while you can eventually bypass sneak attack immunities with wands, you still lose your Skirmish. You're leaning pretty hard on your precision damage to be powerful in combat. On top of that, you don't even attack very well--you only have three or four attacks, and not at a particularly impressive bonus, either. You make up for it somewhat with good skills, with stealth, knowledge, and UMD, but I can't give too many points for UMD WBL-mancy, and ultimately you're not all that different from a straight Rogue 20, which is on the mid to low end of T4. So you get a 2. Maybe 2.5 if I were doing fractional scores, but I'm not.

Elegance: 3
I like the simplicity, but you kind of blew it by trying too hard to be original. First off, your little polymorph trick (see what I did there) is both questionable and cheesy. You're using the spell in a way it's obviously not intended to be used, and I'm skeptical that it even works. Second, your build puts a lot of emphasis on unarmed strike damage, including optimizing size, and yet you deliberately shrank yourself. That's not what I call synergistic. (And don't give me that "Superior Unarmed Strike is independent of size" spiel that you gave Marloth; you're clearly happy to make it scale up with size.) Third, you're supposed to be pouncing, but your iteratives suck. You have pounce at level 1, but you don't get a second attack until level 8, so it's just sitting around doing nothing for half your career. You don't even have Two-Weapon Fighting or any natural secondary attacks! And if you're already composing a dispute to argue that those don't work with your chosen method of pounce, well, maybe you should have picked a better method of pouncing, then. You finish the build just short of the 4th iterative, too. And furthermore, you have both Craven and Uncanny Bravery. Which is it? Are you a coward or aren't you? And as for Ride...well, okay, I was going to say that it doesn't make sense with the build, but now that I think about it, I like that you were brave enough to stick with it for the sake of the backstory, so that's actually fine. Anyway, you skate by with a 3 because a lot of these complaints are things that are already dinging you in other categories, and I want to throw you a bone. (Consider it my thank you for making your entry so readable--I do appreciate good formatting!)

Use of Components: 2
You didn't really use the small size at all. It's doing nothing for you. It feels like you just stapled it on because the contest said you had to. This rubs me the wrong way. As for pounce, as I said before, you get it at level 1, but you can't even make a second attack until level 8, and you never get more than four attacks even at level 20. I am unimpressed.

Total: 9
Originality: 2
Two-Weapon Fighting? Precision damage? Yep. Swift Hunter? Not exactly out of the box. Lion of Talisid on a Ranger base? Hmm, well, it's not the standard entry, but I'm not impressed. You get a 2.

Power: 3
This is a little on the low end of what I expect from a 3, but I think it's higher than a 2. I'm willing to round up because you get some nice power spikes toward the end, and because your more questionable decisions are already punishing you in other categories.

Elegance: 2
I'm extremely reluctant to give a score better than 2 to a build that takes multiclass penalties. So that's not looking good. It doesn't really get much better from there--you're not taking very good advantage of your Lion of Talisid class features with only Ranger casting, half animal companion progression, and no other wildshaping; you didn't max your Hide and Move Silently, which is supposed to be, like, the whole point of being a Whisper Gnome; and you completely ignored the Swift Hunter ability to bypass skirmish immunity against favored enemies, which is, like, the best part of Swift Hunter. And furthermore, you didn't even cite your sources! I like that Swift Hunter can qualify you for Lion of Talisid while helping justify pounce, but that's not enough to pull you out of the 2 range here.

Use of Components: 2
Small size isn't doing anything for you in this build. So that's bad. Pounce is pretty decent for you, with 7-ish attacks and some skirmish, but it comes online so late that it's hard to see it as a vital component of the build. So yeah, I'm unimpressed. You didn't showcase either component very well, and there's no synergy between them either.

Total: 9
Originality: 3
Totemist was expected, but Druid entry to Totem Rager is unusual, and Totem Rager + Warshaper is a combo you don't often see. It's not blowing my mind, but it's definitely enough for a 3.

Power: 3
You have enough power and flexibility with your spells, soulmelds, and wildshaping that I feel pretty confident placing you solidly in the high T4/low T3 range, especially with the substantial combat boosts from Warshaper.

Elegance: 2
Let's check the favored class on that race...yep, Barbarian is not Druid. You've got multiclass penalties. Tsk. You also fail to qualify for Power Attack, which is another strike. Furthermore, you have multiple redundant sources of pounce attacks, which is a shameful waste of bind slots. Why in the world would you bind Sphinx Claws if your plan is to turn into a pouncing cat anyway? Landshark Boots are even more offensive, because they don't even work! You can only use the four claw attacks that come with the soulmeld, not your other attacks, and it doesn't count as a charge for Cobalt Charge either. And the Jump bonuses don't even stack because they're both competence bonuses! I do really like some of the synergy you have going on, though--you've got break points in all the right places, and all your classes fit together nicely. It's a pretty elegant build otherwise, and you might have gotten a 3 with better soulmeld selection.

Use of Components: 3
Small size is actually doing work! I think the Halfling substitution level is good for this build. Gren needs that extra wildshape and doesn't really have space for more Druid levels, so it makes a lot of sense. And even though you have multiple redundant sources of pounce, you're at least making good use of the ability with a good supply of natural attacks and that juicy Totem Rager bonus damage.

Total: 11
Originality: 2
Oh look, it's a full caster with DMM Persist cheese--nightsticks too!--and a 2-level Totemist dip. Shaman is a relatively uncommon class, but you can't fool me, it's just Cleric in disguise.

Power: 4
You're theoretically doing T1 or T2 things, but given how many of them aren't actually rules-legal, no way am I giving you full credit for it. I can't encourage this sort of thing. It's a matter of principle.

Elegance: 1
Two flaws. Multiclass xp penalties. Fail to qualify for DMM. Fail to qualify for Primary Contact. Fail to qualify for Bonus Essentia. Illegal bonus feats with no source. Feral template with no RHD. No citations (despite using obscure 3.0 content). No capital letters. At this point I'm not even going to keep looking for errors because this simply must not stand. You get the minimum score.

Use of Components: 1
Small size is actively hurting you, reducing your natural weapon damage and tanking your grappling ability. And you don't have pounce at all because you have no monster hit dice to go with your Feral template. So yeah. Minimum score.

Total: 8
Originality: 2
Ubercharger? Check. Precision damage? Check. Totemist dip? Check. Kobold? Check--I was actually surprised we didn't see more of this, with the free natural weapons on a small +0 LA race. Anyway, you get a 2.

Power: 3
Your build is definitely more powerful than the other Swift Ambusher. You've got more attacks, way better stealth (so you actually can eat the -20 penalty and still expect it to work), more magic, and everything comes online earlier...basically, you're more consistent and more versatile. These things are good, and you easily meet my benchmark for a 3.

Elegance: 4
It's like you took the simplicity I liked in Horseless Harry and did it without all the niggling complaints I had! You avoided multiclass xp penalties, so yay. Your race is playing an actual important role in the build instead of gimping it, so yay again. And you deserve kudos for Lamia Belt as your totem bind--it's the perfect choice for this build (bluff is relevant, hide is relevant, and the claws are on the lower limbs so they don't overlap with the ones you already have). All your stuff is, like, synergistic, and stuff. I wish you had included more description in your entry, but on the whole, I really like what you did here.

Use of Components: 4
ZOMG! It's the only 4! Honestly, if more people had thought to use Kobold, the scores in this category would be higher across the board. I think it really is the right answer to this round. Your build went on to make it doubly relevant by using Sphinx Claws (so that the natural weapon aspect is important), going Swift Ambusher (so that the small weapon damage dice don't matter), and really doubling down hard on stealth (to abuse the size modifier with slight build). Your build is also the only one that, I think, actually feels optimized even outside the constraints of Junkyard Wars. The next highest score in this category was Gren, and she was fine, but ultimately her build would probably have been better if her hands weren't tied by the components. I don't think that's true of your build; Vutha goes the extra mile. Kobold Totemist/Scout/Rogue. Rock on.

Total: 13

There you go. :smallsmile:

[WeaselGuy]

Brutal, Honest, Upfront and Educational. I like it, and appreciate the critique. Luckily, I foresaw some of what was said, and (I think so, at least) implemented some countermeasures into my Iron Chef submission...

Either way, thank you, very much, for submitting a judging for us :smallsmile:

Also, as I did last time, we have:
Build Score Place
Vultha 13 1st
Gren Beastclaws 11 2nd
Markas Sandtracker 9 3rd
Horseless Harry 9 3rd
Karrak 8 4th

Combine those with:


Build Score Place
Gren Beastclaws 15.25 1st
Vultha 12.5 2nd
Markas Sandtracker 10.75 3rd
Horseless Harry 9 4th
Karrak 6.75 5th

and we get:

Build Score Place
Gren Beastclaws 26.25 1st
Vultha 25.5 2nd
Markas Sandtracker 19.75 3rd
Horseless Harry 18 4th
Karrak 14.75 5th


Unless we take the average of the two judgements, in which case it comes out to be...

Build Score Place
Gren Beastclaws 13.125 1st
Vultha 12.75 2nd
Markas Sandtracker 9.875 3rd
Horseless Harry 9 4th
Karrak 7.375 5th

which is still the same order.

[sakuuya]

Are we counting Malroth's scores, though? I'm not sure it's fair, since he didn't respond to disputes. I'd be fine with just going with Troacctid's scores plus any disputes he gets.

And you're awesome, Troacctid. Thanks for saving our bacon.

[Troacctid]

We should wait for Malroth to answer disputes, since a. there's at least one objective factual error there and b. it affects the top two entries.


Are we counting Malroth's scores, though? I'm not sure it's fair, since he didn't respond to disputes. I'd be fine with just going with Troacctid's scores plus any disputes he gets.
Gee, I wonder which entry could have been yours that would make you desire such a thing. You're not tipping your hand at all. :smalltongue:

[sakuuya]

Gee, I wonder which entry could have been yours that would make you desire such a thing. You're not tipping your hand at all. :smalltongue:

Hey, two builds moved up! And what if this is all just an elaborate misdirection? :smallbiggrin:

[WhamBamSam]

Are we counting Malroth's scores, though? I'm not sure it's fair, since he didn't respond to disputes. I'd be fine with just going with Troacctid's scores plus any disputes he gets.

And you're awesome, Troacctid. Thanks for saving our bacon.
We should wait for Malroth to answer disputes, since a. there's at least one objective factual error there and b. it affects the top two entries.


Gee, I wonder which entry could have been yours that would make you desire such a thing. You're not tipping your hand at all. :smalltongue:If Malroth responds to disputes before the reaveal (tomorrow evening, ideally) then his scores will stand, otherwise we'll go with Troacctid's post-dispute scores alone.

And speak of the devil...


Well its not as much a dispute as a question on your scoring,

As high as you talk my UoC, you still 'only' give it a 4, given that everything plays together to the degree that it "feels optimized even outside the constraints of Junkyard Wars", what does it lack to get to the elusive 5?

Otherwise i feel somewhat miffed that you keep comparing my build to the others (even if its 'like Build XYZ but better'), whereas you don't really do that for any of the others. As if the build is rated up against the others instead of itself.

[Troacctid]

Well its not as much a dispute as a question on your scoring,

As high as you talk my UoC, you still 'only' give it a 4, given that everything plays together to the degree that it "feels optimized even outside the constraints of Junkyard Wars", what does it lack to get to the elusive 5?
Good question. Beats me. If I could think of anything that good, I would have submitted an entry. :smallwink:

In this round, "Kobold with pounce and precision damage" would get you a 3. It combines the ingredients in a synergistic way. So that's more or less the baseline "thumbs up." You managed to get above the baseline by having additional synergy: most notably, the focus on stealth, which really spotlighted the benefits of being small.

I don't give out a lot of fives. I'm pretty much on a four-point scale for most intents and purposes. In fact, of all the competitions I've judged, I've never given out a total score higher than 13. So you did good.


Otherwise i feel somewhat miffed that you keep comparing my build to the others (even if its 'like Build XYZ but better'), whereas you don't really do that for any of the others. As if the build is rated up against the others instead of itself.
Also a good question. Or comment. Whatever.

When two builds are similar, but get different scores, I think it is important to highlight what they did differently that resulted in the discrepancy. I want contestants to feel like they are being judged fairly--especially considering my holistic scoring, where I can't just point to a +0.25 here or a -0.5 there. So when you're doing the same thing as someone else, but better or worse, I want to a. make sure both of you know that I know that the other guy is doing the same thing and b. make it clear why I think your version is better or worse enough to merit a different score. I figure if I don't explain it in the judging, whoever got the lower score will probably send in a dispute about it and I'll end up explaining it anyway, so may as well head things off early and save everyone some time.

So why do my comments on Vutha have comparisons to Horseless Harry, rather than vice versa? Because I grade them one at a time, going down the list, and yours came last. Such is life. :smalltongue:

[Sian]

... thinking ... next Junkyard is the reverse? ... Large or Larger + Sneak Attack - ... something?

[sakuuya]

... thinking ... next Junkyard is the reverse? ... Large or Larger + Sneak Attack - ... something?

Large stealth builds are hilarious. I'd be up for this some time.

[sideswipe]

please let this round end. lol

[sakuuya]

We're close! Troacctid is responding to disputes in a timely manner and everything!

[WeaselGuy]

please let this round end. lol

lol, I know, right?


We're close! Troacctid is responding to disputes in a timely manner and everything!

And meanwhile, I've put in a submission to Iron Chef, and am working on one for Optimize my BBEG. I'm stuck on the latter, needing a feat for level 18 and polishing out the sources. Do I need book and page for every little thing I do, or is book sufficient for most of them?

[Troacctid]

Book is sufficient, page is appreciated. (The more obscure the source, the more appreciated it is, I'm sure.)

[Sian]

if its not obvious from looking on the 'content' page, where to look in the book for the feat/prc/whatever a page number is very handy. If you can open the book and quickly run down the list untill the Chapter named Feats (or Prestige Classes) it honestly aren't needed.

[WhamBamSam]

please let this round end. lol

We're close! Troacctid is responding to disputes in a timely manner and everything!We are indeed. It looks like we're on pace to be done by tomorrow evening, and Junkyard Wars will end up nicely staggered with Iron Chef.

The next round will not involve large size. I've got two 5 level caster PrCs (which I actually think have some potential synergy together) set for the required ingredient, though I'm still trying to decide on a Forbidden ingredient.

In the meantime, though, here's another dispute for you Troacctid.


Horseless Harry, the Small Giant Human

Originality: 2
You wrote: "I like the simplicity, but you kind of blew it by trying too hard to be original." Did Horseless Harry fail to be original in his race and his way of gaining Small size? It would seem that either those characteristics are original, and deserve credit here, or they're not original, and that would merit some explanation.



Power: 2
You can do a decent amount of damage on a charge if you have the initiative, but on the whole, I'm not impressed. Sneak attacks are inherently unreliable--you don't have a consistent way to flank or flat-foot your enemies (Hide in Plain Sight is cool and all, but you can't eat the -20 penalty and still expect it to work all the time), and while you can eventually bypass sneak attack immunities with wands, you still lose your Skirmish.
Please explain. If there's any allied melee combatant Harry can likely get into a flanking position to enable sneak attack; his 80' charge movement, with a turn of up to 90 degrees, is designed to make that reliable. His excellent Tumble skill allows him to simply charge straight through normal obstacles, and he's guaranteed to make at least one foe flat-footed each combat via Acrobatic Backstab. If Harry can use a wand to enable sneak attack, why can't he use a wand to enable skirmish as well (Spark of Life, Humanoid Essence, or other touch spells delivered via a good unarmed pounding)? What makes Horseless Harry lose his +7d6/+7 AC Skirmish? He's required to make Pounce, and thus Charge, work for this competition, and he's got a bunch of ways to make sure that he'll qualify for a Charge when others would fail (can overcome difficult terrain, can start on horseback and finish on foot, or even take a dogleg charge path). Even with no precision damage his base is enough to trigger massive damage saves much of the time; either one of the two types of precision damage virtually guarantees a massive damage save on every single hit. Getting above that 50 point threshold arguably improves his combat effectiveness more than extra Pounce attacks, because it creates a way to take enemies out (failed saves) regardless of how many hit points they have.



Elegance: 3
I like the simplicity, but you kind of blew it by trying too hard to be original. First off, your little polymorph trick (see what I did there) is both questionable and cheesy. You're using the spell in a way it's obviously not intended to be used, and I'm skeptical that it even works. Second, your build puts a lot of emphasis on unarmed strike damage, including optimizing size, and yet you deliberately shrank yourself. That's not what I call synergistic. (And don't give me that "Superior Unarmed Strike is independent of size" spiel that you gave Marloth; you're clearly happy to make it scale up with size.)
It strikes me that (since you've volunteered for the job) it's your responsibility to decide if the "little polymorph trick" works, and judge the result. Saying you're skeptical means you haven't formed a solid basis on which to score the build. Please, try to be sure.

When I wrote "independent of size" I meant exactly that: Superior Unarmed Strike doesn't create different damage for a smaller or larger character. Where do you get the idea that I would have it scale up if the character were larger? You get exactly the base unarmed damage the feat states — neither more nor less.


(Consider it my thank you for making your entry so readable--I do appreciate good formatting!) You're welcome. I know judging is hard work, and if a build is worth the effort to make, it should be worth the effort to make clear.



Use of Components: 2
You didn't really use the small size at all. It's doing nothing for you.
Small size is making it possible to get the maximum boost to unarmed damage via Greater Mighty Wallop; Harry's original Medium size would result in less damage (adjusted base 8d6 instead of 12d6). You're right that the two different types of precision damage make up the bulk of his combat ability, but (with no items and no precision damage) 12d6+5 on every hit — because Small size is the optimum choice to leverage Superior Unarmed Strike and Greater Mighty Wallop — is nothing to sneeze at.

[Troacctid]

You wrote: "I like the simplicity, but you kind of blew it by trying too hard to be original." Did Horseless Harry fail to be original in his race and his way of gaining Small size? It would seem that either those characteristics are original, and deserve credit here, or they're not original, and that would merit some explanation.
Do you mean did I give you Originality points for being a human? No. :smalltongue:

Okay, okay, I know what you meant. The short answer is yes, he failed to be original. Picking an offbeat race (or in this case modifying a race in an offbeat way) doesn't automatically give you originality points. (Similarly, I wouldn't have given you points for Underfolk or Sea Kin either.) Remember, I'm not looking at the individual pieces, awarding points for things that are original and deducting points for things that aren't--I'm looking at the whole build and making a holistic judgment on its overall originality.


Please explain. If there's any allied melee combatant Harry can likely get into a flanking position to enable sneak attack; his 80' charge movement, with a turn of up to 90 degrees, is designed to make that reliable. His excellent Tumble skill allows him to simply charge straight through normal obstacles, and he's guaranteed to make at least one foe flat-footed each combat via Acrobatic Backstab. If Harry can use a wand to enable sneak attack, why can't he use a wand to enable skirmish as well (Spark of Life, Humanoid Essence, or other touch spells delivered via a good unarmed pounding)? What makes Horseless Harry lose his +7d6/+7 AC Skirmish? He's required to make Pounce, and thus Charge, work for this competition, and he's got a bunch of ways to make sure that he'll qualify for a Charge when others would fail (can overcome difficult terrain, can start on horseback and finish on foot, or even take a dogleg charge path). Even with no precision damage his base is enough to trigger massive damage saves much of the time; either one of the two types of precision damage virtually guarantees a massive damage save on every single hit. Getting above that 50 point threshold arguably improves his combat effectiveness more than extra Pounce attacks, because it creates a way to take enemies out (failed saves) regardless of how many hit points they have.
Sure, whatever. The point is, it's conditional, and when it comes to meeting those conditions reliably, you don't have any special tools that a standard Rogue wouldn't also have. (This is in contrast to, say, an Assassin, Swordsage, or Unseen Seer, who could augment their sneak attacks with class abilities where you would have to spend WBL.) You're not going to impress me with the numbers you have at level 20. Anyone can do buckets of damage at level 20. In my book, those extra d6s you're rolling are competence, not excellence.


It strikes me that (since you've volunteered for the job) it's your responsibility to decide if the "little polymorph trick" works, and judge the result. Saying you're skeptical means you haven't formed a solid basis on which to score the build. Please, try to be sure.

When I wrote "independent of size" I meant exactly that: Superior Unarmed Strike doesn't create different damage for a smaller or larger character. Where do you get the idea that I would have it scale up if the character were larger? You get exactly the base unarmed damage the feat states — neither more nor less.
It's not my responsibility. It's the DM's responsibility. Unless I'm the DM, in which case it doesn't work, natch. :smalltongue: (Same reason why casting reduce person before polymorphing into a giant wouldn't result in a small giant.)

If you're relying on unintuitive corner-case rules loopholes that you have to argue with the DM about, you're going to lose Elegance points even if you turn out to be right. I did say in my criteria that I'd be penalizing questionable rules interpretations and cheese; it doesn't have to be a clear-cut rules violation to merit a deduction. (And I didn't even end up penalizing you in this category! You got off easy!)

The second part is referring to your use of mighty wallop spells. "But Troacctid, those spells specifically say they increase your weapon damage based on Table 2-2 in the DMG!" Yes, and you decreased your size category with return to nature, which functions as reduce person, which specifically says it reduces weapon damage based on Table 2-3 in the DMG. Checkmate. :smallcool:


Small size is making it possible to get the maximum boost to unarmed damage via Greater Mighty Wallop; Harry's original Medium size would result in less damage (adjusted base 8d6 instead of 12d6). You're right that the two different types of precision damage make up the bulk of his combat ability, but (with no items and no precision damage) 12d6+5 on every hit — because Small size is the optimum choice to leverage Superior Unarmed Strike and Greater Mighty Wallop — is nothing to sneeze at.
So your argument is it's giving you an average of 13 extra damage per hit... at level 20? And only if you have a 20th level caster buffing you every morning? I'd totally sneeze at that.

Look, the bit you quoted was hyperbole, I know it's not giving you literally nothing. You're getting a +1 size modifier to AC, +4 size modifier to Hide, whatever. It's just giving you nothing of consequence. And I stand by that.

[sakuuya]

Are we gonna get a reveal tonight, Mr. Chairman? I thought this was a fun list of ingredients, but I'm looking forward to the round being over.

[WhamBamSam]

Are we gonna get a reveal tonight, Mr. Chairman? I thought this was a fun list of ingredients, but I'm looking forward to the round being over.We are indeed. I'm just now getting back to the computer.

Final Results
Build Score Place
Sian's Vultha 13 1st
sakuuya's Gren Beastclaws 11 2nd
WeaselGuy's Markas Sandtracker 9 3rd
Curmudgeon's Horseless Harry 9 3rd
sideswipe's Karrak 8 5th

Congratulations to all competitors, and thanks to Troacctid for judging. The next round will be up shortly.

[sideswipe]

yay for coming last, i knew DMM persist was known cheese but i really thought the grapplemancer and feral was cool. and i based it mostly on the idea i had for a backstory. (the totemist was not though, that was added in)

[sakuuya]

Did you correctly guess my build, Troacctid? :smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

yay for coming last, i knew DMM persist was known cheese but i really thought the grapplemancer and feral was cool. and i based it mostly on the idea i had for a backstory. (the totemist was not though, that was added in)

You might have gotten points for Feral if you had actually picked a race that would make it give you pounce. I guarantee you would have gotten at least a 3 in Originality if you picked some obscure small humanoid or monstrous humanoid race with 4+ RHD, like an Armand or something. But you had no racial hit dice, so you ended up with a build that didn't actually include the components.

Some tips for your next entry:

I assume your keyboard has a Shift key. Use proper capitalization. I can and will deduct elegance points for poor presentation.
Make sure your build is rules-legal. You had so many errors this round it was just silly.
Don't take flaws and don't take multiclass xp penalties. It's guaranteed to lose you elegance points and it's extremely unlikely that whatever power boost you get is worth it. And it's really easy to avoid; just don't do it.

[WeaselGuy]

I (Markas) really screwed myself of not including a sources tab. I had one, when I was going to be using more obscure stuff, but when I whittled it all down to PHB, CAdv, CWar and BoED, I just said to myself "Bah, everyone knows where these things come from...". I've learned my lesson, and hopefully it will show in my Iron Chef and BBEG submissions :D Thank you to both judges for taking the time to look these over, and my congratulations to all the other participants, regardless of what place we all took, we all put in the time and effort to at least do something. Plus, I'm happy that my first ever entry managed to pull 3rd place :smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

I (Markas) really screwed myself of not including a sources tab. I had one, when I was going to be using more obscure stuff, but when I whittled it all down to PHB, CAdv, CWar and BoED, I just said to myself "Bah, everyone knows where these things come from...". I've learned my lesson, and hopefully it will show in my Iron Chef and BBEG submissions :D Thank you to both judges for taking the time to look these over, and my congratulations to all the other participants, regardless of what place we all took, we all put in the time and effort to at least do something. Plus, I'm happy that my first ever entry managed to pull 3rd place :smallbiggrin:

Honestly, citing your sources wouldn't have improved your scoring under my judging. It was more the multiclass penalties that did you in for elegance. That and "wasting" the Lion of Talisid class features by using Ranger instead of Druid--but that could have been good or bad depending on how the judge weighs it in the other categories, so it's more of a judgment call than a mistake. Oh, and not using the other half of Swift Hunter was pretty inelegant too. I could maybe understand not going with Construct or Elemental for flavor reasons, I guess, but you could have at least picked Undead for one of your favored enemies.

Truth be told, I did already know what books everything was from, so you weren't wrong about that at least. But hey, citing is good form either way, and some other judges would definitely go "No sources? -0.25 points!"

[Sian]

But hey, citing is good form either way, and some other judges would definitely go "No sources? -0.25 points!"

Honestly I feel its more the other way around ... not bothering to make source list for all but the most basic (PHB) is highly bad form, and protentially a waste of the judges time to find the bits he aren't perfectly sure of where is.

Also, yey for my 4th gold medal ... 3 in Zinc (XXV, XXVIII and XXIX) and now this