Sun Blade = Lightsaber of Goodness?

[BRKNdevil]

So the DMG shows the new sun blade which is a hilt that makes a blade of pure radiance that still slashes but does additional radiant damage like the Blaster they have in optional weapons. So does that mean its a lightsaber?

[JFahy]

So the DMG shows the new sun blade which is a hilt that makes a blade of pure radiance that still slashes but does additional radiant damage like the Blaster they have in optional weapons. So does that mean its a lightsaber?

Never liked that interpretation, but it's hard to avoid and I know a lot of people love it. :smallconfused:

[Grayson01]

So the DMG shows the new sun blade which is a hilt that makes a blade of pure radiance that still slashes but does additional radiant damage like the Blaster they have in optional weapons. So does that mean its a lightsaber?

If you want it to be a Lightsaber it most certainly can be. I just hope it does not also have a lightsaber Hilt on it.

[pwykersotz]

Nah, it's got a crossguard. Oh wait... :smallwink:

[Angelalex242]

Do not put too much faith in this Sun Blade you've constructed. The power to make a weapon is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

[Mechaviking]

Wasn´t the sunblade a bastard sword that could be wielded as a knife? Usually +3 I think.

[Daishain]

Most interpretations of lightsabers have them being shafts of contained plasma rather than literal light.

But yeah, its about as close to a lightsaber as you're going to get in a fantasy game.

[Slipperychicken]

But yeah, its about as close to a lightsaber as you're going to get in a fantasy game.

There are laser guns in the DMG, brain-eating green aliens in the MM, and the PHB has a whole character archetype built around making deal with cthulhu to get magic lasers.

I don't think lightsabers are much of a stretch here.

[Mechaviking]

So, the designers played a lot of might and magic?

[pwykersotz]

I actually think of it more as Gourry Gavriev's Sword of Light.

http://www.ultrapublications.com/lkshomepage/slayers/original/swordoflight2.jpg

http://www.ultrapublications.com/lkshomepage/slayers/original/swordoflight3.jpg

[jkat718]

There are laser guns in the DMG, brain-eating green aliens in the MM, and the PHB has a whole character archetype built around making deal with cthulhu to get magic lasers.

I don't think lightsabers are much of a stretch here.

Permission to sig?

[Slipperychicken]

Permission to sig?

Permission to sig granted.

[asorel]

Permission to sig granted.

I'm going to assume that applies to everyone, and, before it is said otherwise, plaster your words on my signature for all the world to see. At least, the small part of the world that bothers to read my posts.






I'm so alone.

[Occasional Sage]

I'm going to assume that applies to everyone, and, before it is said otherwise, plaster your words on my signature for all the world to see. At least, the small part of the world that bothers to read my posts.






I'm so alone.

You and me both!
Do I really need to wink here?


Wasn´t the sunblade a bastard sword that could be wielded as a knife? Usually +3 I think.

If my 1/2e memory serves after all these years, a Sunblade was originally a longsword mechanically, with the requirements of a shortsword.

[BRKNdevil]

I actually think of it more as Gourry Gavriev's Sword of Light.

http://www.ultrapublications.com/lkshomepage/slayers/original/swordoflight2.jpg

http://www.ultrapublications.com/lkshomepage/slayers/original/swordoflight3.jpg

I've always felt that it had common roots with the lightsaber anyways. Besides Its not like i can make a ragnablade with the sun blade

[MeeposFire]

Or think Thundarr the barbarian!

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110912011734/thundarr/images/2/20/Thundarr1.jpg

[Glarnog]

"Lords of Light"

Especially since G.G. was rumored to work on Thundar.

[Scots Dragon]

But yeah, its about as close to a lightsaber as you're going to get in a fantasy game.

The wand of force says hi.


In any case, I think the first properly recorded use of a 'laser sword' in modern fantasy was actually the Rods of Wrath from a Fritz Leiber science fantasy story, Gather Darkness;


Like two ancient swordsmen, then, the warlock and the deacon duelled together. Their weapons were two endless blades of violet incandescence, but their tactics were those of sabreurs - feint, cut, parry, swift riposte.

[Person_Man]

2nd edition Sun Blade was a +2 weapon, +4 vs Evil, and it dealt double damage vs. Negative Energy Plane creatures or those drawing power from that plane like undead, and once per day you could swing it around to cause daylight (ie, hurt vampires). It also dealt damage as a bastard sword but is wielded as a short sword, which was important, because:

Only Warriors were proficient in the use of magic bastard swords (whereas Rogues could also use short swords).
Short sword had a superior Speed Factor.
Two Weapon Fighting required your off hand weapon to be smaller in size then the main weapon (or two daggers), so this allowed you to basically use a bastard sword in each hand.


To summarize, it was a pretty awesome weapon.

How does the 5E version compare?

[LuthielValkire]

Do not put too much faith in this Sun Blade you've constructed. The power to make a weapon is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Not as clumsy or random as a crossbow -- an elegant weapon from a more civilized age ...

[mr_odd]

Nah, it's got a crossguard. Oh wait... :smallwink:

Haha, I see what you did there. The real question is it a light cross guard?

[Joe the Rat]

Or think Thundarr the barbarian!

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110912011734/thundarr/images/2/20/Thundarr1.jpg
Demon Dogs! What foul Wizardry (of the Coast) is this? They have created a copy of the Sun Sword!



...yeah, if you want a laser blade, this is the way to go. I kind of preferred the Bastard Sword with a Glowing Blade rather than a go-to analog for fighting Darth Macalaster.

[Giant2005]

How does the 5E version compare?
Not that well imo.

It is a +2 Longsword that has the Finesse property (Not light) that can be used with the Shortsword proficiency. It emits light and deals 1D8+2 Radiant damage with an extra 1D8 radiant to undead.
What I consider a huge detriment to the sword is the fact that it requires a bonus action to summon, so it cannot be drawn with a free action like every other weapon.

[MadGrady]

Not that well imo.

It is a +2 Longsword that has the Finesse property (Not light) that can be used with the Shortsword proficiency. It emits light and deals 1D8+2 Radiant damage with an extra 1D8 radiant to undead.
What I consider a huge detriment to the sword is the fact that it requires a bonus action to summon, so it cannot be drawn with a free action like every other weapon.

This makes me sad that it has fallen so far :smallfrown:

[Joe the Rat]

So it's gone from a +2 Bastard Sword which can be wielded like a shortsword, and does double damage to "negative energy-fueled creatures"... to a +2 Longsword (which is also this edition's Bastard Sword - see versatile property), which can use dexterity for to-hit AND damage bonus (like a shortsword) as well as being usable with shortsword proficiency, and throws an extra weapon die of damage against undead...

That's a pretty close analog on the base functions. All we're really missing here is the globe of daylight.

[Person_Man]

That's a pretty close analog on the base functions. All we're really missing here is the globe of daylight.

The fact that it doesn't have the Light property means that it can't be used with Two Weapon Fighting. So it won't be used by most Rogues or Rangers, which was the big draw of the weapon in 2E.

And the fact that its a Bonus Action and not a Free Action to draw means is a big deal, because it means you have to reveal yourself prior to combat (since it emits light) preventing you from using Stealth, or waste the Bonus Action the first round of combat (preventing you from doing something useful, like casting Spiritual Weapon, using Cunning Action, etc).

I think I'll house rule it to fix these problems.

Also, in every edition of Dungeons and Dragons I've ever played (and I've played every edition since 1st edition), I've eventually had to homebrew a Jedi class for one of my players, who insists on playing one. I think in 5E I'm going to use Monk chassis, remove the Unarmed Strike stuff and give them Martial weapon proficiency, let Flurry work with any weapon, and change the Ki powers to mimic Force Powers, and give them a real capstone. Any thoughts?

[LuthielValkire]

That's a pretty close analog on the base functions. All we're really missing here is the globe of daylight.

From the description:

"The sword's luminous blade emits bright light in a 15 foot radius and dim light for an additional 15 feet. The light is sunlight..."

So anything sensitive to sunlight is going to have trouble with it.

[Joe the Rat]

The fact that it doesn't have the Light property means that it can't be used with Two Weapon Fighting. So it won't be used by most Rogues or Rangers, which was the big draw of the weapon in 2E.

And the fact that its a Bonus Action and not a Free Action to draw means is a big deal, because it means you have to reveal yourself prior to combat (since it emits light) preventing you from using Stealth, or waste the Bonus Action the first round of combat (preventing you from doing something useful, like casting Spiritual Weapon, using Cunning Action, etc).

I think I'll house rule it to fix these problems. A Feat would fix the dual-wielding issue. Not optimal, but a trade-off from making dual-wielding more accessible in general. And the bonus action issue is why I prefer a sword that glows with the radiance of the sun over a Gundanium-fueled energy blade. (I'll run out of "not a light saber" analogs eventually).



Also, in every edition of Dungeons and Dragons I've ever played (and I've played every edition since 1st edition), I've eventually had to homebrew a Jedi class for one of my players, who insists on playing one. I think in 5E I'm going to use Monk chassis, remove the Unarmed Strike stuff and give them Martial weapon proficiency, let Flurry work with any weapon, and change the Ki powers to mimic Force Powers, and give them a real capstone. Any thoughts?

Far and away, Monk will be the best fit. Next closest is Warlock (Pact of the Blade, but is the Force more like Fey or Old Ones?). You could probably work from Elemental Fist, popping in some more Mind Trick and Disturbance-Sensing abilities. The question though is do you want them to have full Martial proficiency, or proficiency with a specific weapon? There's some debate about how wacky weapon flurries could get (something about potential magic and the joys of Heavy Weapon Mastery), and if that seems to be a little overboard, you can restrict flurry to a specific weapon or smaller pool of weapons.

[Maxilian]

From the description:

"The sword's luminous blade emits bright light in a 15 foot radius and dim light for an additional 15 feet. The light is sunlight..."

So anything sensitive to sunlight is going to have trouble with it.

That's why as a good DM you should give the sword to the Drow of the party :smallbiggrin:

[Easy_Lee]

Also, in every edition of Dungeons and Dragons I've ever played (and I've played every edition since 1st edition), I've eventually had to homebrew a Jedi class for one of my players, who insists on playing one. I think in 5E I'm going to use Monk chassis, remove the Unarmed Strike stuff and give them Martial weapon proficiency, let Flurry work with any weapon, and change the Ki powers to mimic Force Powers, and give them a real capstone. Any thoughts?

Monks in D&D online are able to take the feat "Whirling Steel Strike" to specifically use longswords. That seems to me to be the closest fit for Jedi. I would do that and use elemental monk as a basis for picking out some force and telekinesis-y spells for them to have access to. I would also give them the mage hand and friends cantrips (simple force use, jedi mind trick), but those are just my thoughts.

[Maxilian]

Monks in D&D online are able to take the feat "Whirling Steel Strike" to specifically use longswords. That seems to me to be the closest fit for Jedi. I would do that and use elemental monk as a basis for picking out some force and telekinesis-y spells for them to have access to. I would also give them the mage hand and friends cantrips (simple force use, jedi mind trick), but those are just my thoughts.

I don't think is really needed to create a new class, just make that person multi-class (Sorcerer -2 lvls maybe- and monk) and just modify how it looks ingame (and make most of his spells do force damage instead of the normal elemental damage), also... give the player the Sun Blade (let the player use it as a monk weapon) and there you have a jedi

[Person_Man]

Far and away, Monk will be the best fit. Next closest is Warlock (Pact of the Blade, but is the Force more like Fey or Old Ones?). You could probably work from Elemental Fist, popping in some more Mind Trick and Disturbance-Sensing abilities. The question though is do you want them to have full Martial proficiency, or proficiency with a specific weapon? There's some debate about how wacky weapon flurries could get (something about potential magic and the joys of Heavy Weapon Mastery), and if that seems to be a little overboard, you can restrict flurry to a specific weapon or smaller pool of weapons.

Yeah, I wouldn't want a Monk/Jedi to Furry with a Greatsword and Heavy Weapon Master for 4*[2d6+Str+10] damage at level 5. So I think I'll grant Martial Weapon proficiency (no reason a Jedi couldn't use a longbow), but allow Flurry to work with any non-Heavy melee weapon. I might also add a Shillelagh-like effect, so that they can use Wis in place of Str/Dex, because I hate enforced MAD.

With the addition of Mage Hand, Jump, Suggestion, Detect Thoughts, Locate Creation, and Telekinesis Ki powers spread throughout their subclass levels, and your Jedi is set. I think I'd need to find a replacement for their high level Etherealness and cruddy capstone though. Maybe Mind Blank?

[Joe the Rat]

(Re: Maxilian) Keeping it in-monk on the Elemental Fist chassis would be simpler - a single resource for funky force powers alongside the more standard array (deflect arrows blasters, enhanced movement). Eyeballing the effects list, it looks like monks spend ki for spells at roughly the same rate as sorcerers using sorcery points to create spell slots of equivalent level. Making direct swaps on the list ought to be easy.

...Although using multiclassing to fine-tune the character concept would work quite well. How much of the Bard class could be described as "Using the Force"?

[Easy_Lee]

I think I'd need to find a replacement for their high level Etherealness and cruddy capstone though. Maybe Mind Blank?

Some ideas:

Freedom of movement - everybody loves always-on freedom of movement
Reduce ki-cost of all jedi-style ki abilities by X - This would make some powers always available, so the jedi could use those effortlessly
Shatterpoint - it's in the novels, use some form of bonus damage, guaranteed criticals, etc vs targets who are below full hp, or identify a weakness to deal massive damage to a single target similar to quivering palm.
Life Force - even if you die, you become a sentient spirit made of pure ki which is immune to all negative effects but unable to do more than appear and talk to other jedi. A resurrection spell cast on your spirit will always work and restores your body.
Prescient Force - you know when others are lying and you are aware of all living creatures within 120' feet of you. You are aware of danger before it occurs, and once per day may reroll a guaranteed 20 on a saving throw, choosing to do so after you know the result of the first roll.

You could do a lot with this, honestly.

[Person_Man]

Some ideas:

Freedom of movement - everybody loves always-on freedom of movement
Reduce ki-cost of all jedi-style ki abilities by X - This would make some powers always available, so the jedi could use those effortlessly
Shatterpoint - it's in the novels, use some form of bonus damage, guaranteed criticals, etc vs targets who are below full hp, or identify a weakness to deal massive damage to a single target similar to quivering palm.
Life Force - even if you die, you become a sentient spirit made of pure ki which is immune to all negative effects but unable to do more than appear and talk to other jedi. A resurrection spell cast on your spirit will always work and restores your body.
Prescient Force - you know when others are lying and you are aware of all living creatures within 120' feet of you. You are aware of danger before it occurs, and once per day may reroll a guaranteed 20 on a saving throw, choosing to do so after you know the result of the first roll.

You could do a lot with this, honestly.

These are great ideas, so thank you.

I particularly like the idea of codifying Force Ghost as a high level class ability. In addition to being perfect for a Jedi-Monk class, in my experience the player of a character that dies almost always sticks around until the end of a game session and talks about what the party should do anyway, and then they're resurrected or roll up another character that shows up the next time the party visits an inn. It'd be nice to have a mechanic that just allows them to talk in character to any willing creature that they knew in life, and removing additional hurdles to Resurrection makes sense.

I wonder if I should just give them a house-rule fixed Sun Blade (or magic weapon of their choice) at a certain level as well? I mean, who wants to play a Jedi without a Lightsaber? It would just have to be written in such a way that its useful throughout all 20 levels. That's always been a complaint of mine in general for long running campaigns. The nifty and interesting magic weapons/armor/etc that you give players at low-mid levels basically become useless at mid-high levels when they get better class abilities. So virtually no one uses the same magic weapon throughout their career/campaign. That's the exact opposite of what happens in 90%ish of novels with magic weapons, where the main character(s) almost always find something early in their career and stick with it until the end (Sting, Excalibur, etc).

[Easy_Lee]

I wonder if I should just give them a house-rule fixed Sun Blade (or magic weapon of their choice) at a certain level as well? I mean, who wants to play a Jedi without a Lightsaber? It would just have to be written in such a way that its useful throughout all 20 levels. That's always been a complaint of mine in general for long running campaigns. The nifty and interesting magic weapons/armor/etc that you give players at low-mid levels basically become useless at mid-high levels when they get better class abilities. So virtually no one uses the same magic weapon throughout their career/campaign. That's the exact opposite of what happens in 90%ish of novels with magic weapons, where the main character(s) almost always find something early in their career and stick with it until the end (Sting, Excalibur, etc).

I like the idea of powering up individual weapons, too. It just seems better from a story-telling point of view that some people have weapons unique to them that they always use. To that end, I created a pigmy gelatinous cube in my campaign called Cubert who plays party pet and can swap around magic item effects for the players (at my discretion, they don't know he can do this yet).

Constructing a lightsaber was always made out to be a big deal in the movies. I could see the jedi lightsaber construction process playing out something like this:

Player finds a weapon they want to construct into their lightsaber
Player performs a 1-day ritual which breaks down the weapon into its magical and spiritual properties
Player applies those properties to a hilt, capable of producing their lightsaber which would be a unique weapon type (sugg: 1d10 Insightful <can use wisdom for attack/damage>)

I think that would cover your bases. There might be other rules, like static +1, +2, +3 can be added from another weapon to their current, but they can't use more than one set of attunement bonuses. That might balance everything.

[zhdarkstar]

The bonus action activation of Sun Blade was probably derived from the casting time of Shillelagh. I would put keep that same mechanic for a lightsaber. Remember that you're also getting a minor light source out of the item, so it should take some portion of time to activate and the blade to extend.

Regardless, I think Shillelagh would be a good place to start building a lightsaber class feature.

[Thrudd]

The Sun blade is clearly Thundarr the Barbarian's fabulous Sun Sword!

Which is clearly a lightsaber, because the makers of the show totally wanted to capitalize on Star Wars (Ookla the Mok was there because someone thought they needed a Chewbacca analogue).