A light on our favorite Wizzard, Rincewind

[Goblin Music]

this tread is about the Mage Rincewind and his Wizzardly abilities
Mainly what class.:smallwink:

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

shouldn't this be in Gaming?

[Eldpollard]

shouldn't this be in Gaming?

That or media discussion.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

well, i think it was meant to take the rincewind's class levels debate off the things you shouldn't do while gaming thread.

[Goblin Music]

this is just so we don't clutter up Things i shouldn't do while gaming thread

[Green Bean]

this tread is about the Mage Rincewind and his Wizzardly abilities


What wizardly abilities? :smallwink:

[Amiria]

Maybe his pointy wizzzard hat ? Definitely a class feature.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

that was my point exactly. :smallwink:

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

Wizard 1. I believe that should cover it all.

[Scorpina]

Rincewind has better saves than a Wizard 1, and less spells...

[Wizzardman]

Wizard maybe 3 or 4, Rogue several levels, maybe a few levels from the 'lucky' prestige class in Complete Scoundrel, and high int.

Why can't he cast spells? Either the mage slayer feat, which would provide him approximately 0 caster levels, or because he never learned any [as he never carries his spellbook, and didn't pay much attention in UU]. Or we could just blame it on the fact that he cast an epic level spell in The Light Fantastic which happened to permanently remove his spellcasting powers as a drawback.

[Assassinfox]

He probably has some special template on him like "Chosen of the Lady" or something that gives him ridiculous saves and an even more ridiculous LA.

[Aidan305]

There are stats for him in GURPS.

I'd say probably a couple of levels of wizzard, a couple of scout, and various other classes that get you boosts to speed.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Survivor from Savage Species. His life counted as the whole month training.

[Madmal]

Or we could just blame it on the fact that he cast an epic level spell in The Light Fantastic which happened to permanently remove his spellcasting powers as a drawback.

err...i believe he already couldn't cast any spells due to that specific spell on his head...

[The Demented One]

err...i believe he already couldn't cast any spells due to that specific spell on his head...
Even after he got rid of it, he was still useless at magic.

[XenoGeno]

It seems to me that he'd be some sort of Prestige Class that has Expeditious Retreat usable at will as a spell-like ability. He'd definitely have monstrously high mental and Dex ability scores, knows every language you can learn, and has high Bluff and Diplomacy.

[JellyPooga]

Maybe a couple levels of Monk for higher saves and movement bonus'??

[Scorpina]

...but that would require a Lawful alignment, which seems a bit off.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

yeah, no monk levels. what about that feat that lets you run extra fast?

[goat]

Spellcasting on the disk seems to be a more charismatic type affair than an intelligent one. Lots of the Wizards encountered haven't been all that smart. Maybe he's a wizard variant using charismatic casting, but he lacks the charisma to use it.

[Sage in the Playground]

He's a level 0 wizzard.

[Cyrano]

Definition of Wizzard:
No class skills
No race skills
No skills
Gets picked on
No spells
500 movement speed

[Sage in the Playground]

Definition of Wizzard:
No class skills
No race skills
No skills
Gets picked on
No spells
500 movement speed

You forgot "Obscenelt Lucky" and "Extremely Pessimistic"

[Green Bean]

Nah, Rincewind is a low level wizard, who has 10 INT, and a few levels in a class that grants movement speed. And I wouldn't really give him any ranks in diplomacy; when was the last time he persuaded someone to not try and kill him?

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/rincewind1.png

[Cyrano]

Well Obscenely Lucky (at least, I THOUGHT) was a Race special (Incompetant Ankh-Morporkian), and Extremely Pessimistic is a feat, with a prerequisite of Rincewind.

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

Nah, Rincewind is a low level wizard, who has 10 INT, and a few levels in a class that grants movement speed. And I wouldn't really give him any ranks in diplomacy; when was the last time he persuaded someone to not try and kill him?

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/rincewind1.png

He can't just have 10 INT. He knows every language possible.

[Scorpina]

...maybe he just has lots and lots of ranks in Speak Language? After all, it's not as though she's put a lot of ranks into anything else.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

yes, the Speak Language Skill is absolutely correct!! Especially since he learned to speak them later in life rather than as he grew up.

[XenoGeno]

He's definitely intelligent, as are all the Wizards on the disc. They just have crappy Wis. He's Chaotic, with high Int and Wis and above average Cha.

[Raistlin1040]

Who exactly is this guy?

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'd actually make a PrC for him- he seems to be the chosen of The Lady, but only because he thinks he isn't.

[Goblin Music]

Who exactly is this guy?
this thread is about a man named Rincewind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincewind) on a disc like world, which rides on 4 elephants who walk on a giant turtle who swims trough space
understand?

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah I looked him up on Wiki.

[Nibleswick]

He would have to have a high con, because he can go forever. I am not to sure about the high wiz and int, he can be rather dopy at times.

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

It's high DEX, not high CON, that allows him to survive.

[Green Bean]

He's definitely intelligent, as are all the Wizards on the disc. They just have crappy Wis. He's Chaotic, with high Int and Wis and above average Cha.

10 INT is about average intelligence (which seems correct. I mean, when was the last time you saw him do something particularily brilliant?). More importantly, having 10 INT means that you can still have wizard class levels, but be unable to cast spells.

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

Rincewind seems a good deal more intelligent than most inhabitants of the Disc. He has a good deal more common sense as well.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I would say that the highest concentration of intelligent individuals on the Disc is actually Pseudopolis Yard in Ankh-Morpork. The Watch has some of the most intelligent people we have seen in the books- ones who are only really dwarfed by Leonard of Quirm and Vetinari. The three most intelligent Watch members I have seen so far are Carrot, Angua, and Vimes.

[PirateMonk]

10 INT is about average intelligence (which seems correct. I mean, when was the last time you saw him do something particularily brilliant?). More importantly, having 10 INT means that you can still have wizard class levels, but be unable to cast spells.

What about cantrips?

[Scorpina]

The Watch has some of the most intelligent people we have seen in the books- ones who are only really dwarfed by Leonard of Quirm and Vetinari.

...and Granny Weatherwax, and possibly Nanny Ogg as well.

[Shadow of the Sun]

And when it comes to it, Lord Hong. And Mr. Shine. And Rhys Rhysson. And Granny Aching. And quite possibly Sergeant Jackrum. I was using a small example. Not going into a massive tangent.

[Scorpina]

Granny Aching, being dead, probably doesn't count...

...I just feel the need to defend Granny Weatherwax's claim to being the Disc's most intellegent resident...

[Shadow of the Sun]

She is incredibly wise, and unlike most Discworlders, she actually possesses common sense. But in pure intellect, I feel the Vetinari and Leonard of Quirm beat her. I personally think that Vetinari is more intelligent that Leonard, just in different ways.

[Scorpina]

Leonard of Quirm is a difficult one, since he's obviously a genius but is also a bit of an idiot. Vetinari is obviously very intellegent as well; there's not much of a difference between him and Granny, intellegence wise. I would think Granny was slightly smarter though...

[Shadow of the Sun]

Up to debate, as always. Granny is an excellent witch- she is a master of manipulating people because she knows how people think- which is the essence of headology. Vetinari is the best manipulator on the Disc. He seems to do nothing and lets the world happen exactly the way he wants it to, because of the tiny things he does do. He understands human nature at least as well as Granny, and he can think using a form of logic so compressed that I think even Mr. Shine would have difficulty in comprehending it.

Vetinari is probably the closest equivalent to a male witch there is. When it comes to manipulation, he is better- he manipulates the entire world at once while Granny is better at individuals. I would have Vetinari smarter, but only by a tiny amount. I have never seen Vetinari act stupid. I have never seen Granny act stupid either. But Vetinari gets points for being a genius even since ha was a child. Granny is a closed book in that endeavor- we know nothing, apart from the stories about her sister and her interaction with the elves.

[Scorpina]

Well, both Vetinari and Granny effectively run their respective nations (it's obvious that Verence II is King of Lancre solely because Granny lets him be King of Lancre). I think the difference is that Granny can (and has) walk into Ankh-Morpork and adapt well enough to not only survive but come out ahead. There isn't a problem she doesn't have an answer to. Vetinari, as far as I'm aware, has never left the city - and I can't imagine him doing to well out in the wilds of Uberwald or whatever.

It's also worth noting that Granny has built a reputation, and not by accident. The dwarves call her 'she who must not be mentioned', and by spreading her name as far as she has she's spread her influence out across the disc. Vetinari only has influence beyond the city limits of Ankh-Morpork because people elsewhere are worried about the military might of the city (or Sam Vimes...) swooping down on them.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Ahem. The Grand Sneer and Lady Margolotta. When Vetinari was about eighteen, he went to Uberwald, and taught a vampire all she knows about politics. She is now one of the two most influential beings in Uberwald- the other being Rhys Rhysson.

Vetinari is by no means useless. He is deadly. He was the one to assassinate Lord Winder. He plans for every eventuality. He actually uses camouflage. He is probably the best Assassin to ever graduate from the Guild.

[Scorpina]

Sure, in polite Uberwald society Vetenari would fit right in, since he's probably the closest a living human can come to actually being a vampire. He knows how to play the political game. Granny could do that too, because she knows exactly how people (and vampires, and werewolves, and elves etc etc) tick and she can get inside anyones head.

The difference is that, out in the wilderness, where there is no politics, Vetenari (by himself) is pretty much screwed unless he stays hidden and puts his Assassin's Guild training to work. Granny? She can go anywhere and do anything she likes, and there isn't anyone or anything that can stop her.

[Shadow of the Sun]

True. She can. But Vetinari has made a city that was in all cases the slums of the slums one of the most reputable cities in the world. He found out the way he was being poisoned before his watchdog did. Vetinari has influence because people fear Vimes swooping down on them. Yep. Vetinari himself has said that he made Vimes what he is. Vetinari is a political genius. He knows the repercussions of everything he does. He epitomizes the principle of Wu Wei.

Granny has influence. She runs Lancre. A country you could spit across. Vetinari rules the most decadent place on the Disc. I think Vetinari wins. Granny has gained for herself influence. So has Vetinari. However, he manipulated people so that they gain it for him. Who is greater- the person with influence, or the person who manipulates people with influence in such subtle ways they don't realize?

[Green Bean]

Leonard of Quirm is a difficult one, since he's obviously a genius but is also a bit of an idiot.

To me at least, Leonard is pretty much the most perfect example of a high INT low WIS character in Discworld.

[goat]

I'd say that in D&D terms, Granny represents a character with above average intellect, but MASSIVE wisdom and high charisma. Just not the pretty, friendly type of charisma. The "I can bend the universe to my way of thinking through sheer stubborness" charisma.

She is shown to be not the quickest at grasping new things in various books, and her smarts seem to be from understanding and experiences rather than book-learning.

I think headology would definitely be a charisma or wisdom based magic, depending on what you were using it for.

Vetinari on the other hand, has intelligence coming out of his ears (gives him skills in everything he could ever need, too) and a high charisma and wisdom.

Leonard of Quirm... Intelligence woud be massive, everything else pretty low. Probably has all his points in craft(everything) and profession(artist, inventor).

Vimes, I'd say is charismatic more than anything. Good wisdom and physical attributes, fairly average intelligence. He doesn't catch on that quickly, he's not from any sort of background where knowledge would have been available to him. His knowledge is of the streets, of reading people. I'd put that under charisma and wisdom.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

You people don't think that Mr. Shine is even in the running? just because he doesn't use his intellect that much..

[goat]

I don't think we really know enough about him to comment.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I have referenced him as one of the most intelligent beings on the Disc in my posts. And from what I can gather he is a master of politics to the level that Vetinari is.

[Green Bean]

Okay, how has no one mentioned Detritus as a candidate yet!?!

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

yeah, why didn't i think of that? :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Herman]

Would that be Detritus with or without his cooling helmet?

[Green Bean]

Would that be Detritus with or without his cooling helmet?

Detritus with his cooling helmet, sitting in a snowbank, in the Pork Futures warehouse. Sure, he'll be about thirty seconds away from freezing to death, but he'll sure be thinkin' :smallbiggrin:

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

isn't that cheating, though? I think that troll intelligence should be measured at room temperature.

[Scorpina]

I don't know, trolls are supposed to have evolved to be smarter in cold temperatures, so you could argue that a cold environment is the most natural one in which to measure troll intellegence.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Aye. But Mr. Shine must be as smart as Detritus in the Pork Futures Warehouse- he can reflect all heat away from his brain.

[Scorpina]

Hmm, I figure Mr. Shine is smarter than Detritus yeah. Chryospace probably is, too.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Mr. Shine is quite possibly more intelligent than Vetinari. He is a troll that can regulate his own temperature, and one of the two trolls we have seen in the Pork Futures Warehouse made Leonard of Quirm look like a lizard while he was in there.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

chrysophase definitely is. especially if he's in there with detritus. but Mr. Shine always beats tham all. (him diamond!)

[Shadow of the Sun]

I think Chrysoprase has a brain optimized for a higher temperature than Detritus's. I think that were they both in the Pork Futures Warehouse, Chrysoprase would reach a plateau before Detritus, so Detritus would be smarter in there. But not outside of it.

Thanks for my swanky new avatar!

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

you're welcome, Shadow.

do you think the warehouse gets cold enough for them to reach their plateaus? I don't, personally. they could both be smarter in the hubward mountains, I think.

[Green Bean]

you're welcome, Shadow.

do you think the warehouse gets cold enough for them to reach their plateaus? I don't, personally. they could both be smarter in the hubward mountains, I think.

I think that in Men at Arms it said that Detritus' optimal operating temperature was fairly close to Detritus' optimal death temperature. Since big D almost died in the warehouse, I'd have to say he was thinking at full capacity.

[Cult_of_the_Raven]

good point. I'd forgotten that.

@vv, Er. That would be Thread Necromancy. Generally pretty frowned upon. don't do it again.

[rielfprincess]

Did you know that GURPs 3rd Ed had a Diskworld setting? I shall have to remember to look up the classes in that book again to see where/if they have Rincewind. I know they definately have the Luggage. Meh, Luggage and Twoflower are favourites of mine anyway.

[Heliomance]

Granny Weatherwax has a sky-high WIS. Vetinari has sky-high INT, WIS, CHA and probably DEX and CON for good measure. Vetinari wins that contest. We don't know enough about Mr Shine to comment on him. I would put forward Moist von Lipwig as having the highest CHA of any known character. Vetinari does regularly play him like a fiddle, but that's probably more of an opposed INT check than a CHA check. Plus that golden suit has got to be at least a +5 to CHA. He also has insane ranks in Bluff, and Forgery. Also good ranks in Disguise, probably Climb, Hide, Sleight of Hand, and possibly Sense Motive.

Rincewind having the Mage Slayer feat to give him negative caster levels would be sensible - it has been stated that on Rincewind's death, the average occult ability of the Disc's population will actually go up slightly.
Stats wise, his DEX is through the roof, and he probably has very good CON as well, both for lots of HP, and because he can run for a long time. He's good at running.
I'd say INT is above average, WIS is high, and CHA is probably reasonably high. He is quite good at getting on with people.

Next contest: Stats for Cohen the Barbarian.

[Vella_Malachite]

What do people think the stats are for Senior Postman Groat?

My guess is low CHA, average STR, low DEX, rock-bottom WIS, average INT and sky-high CON, plus many ranks in profession(postman) and skill(natural medicine).

[Thes Hunter]

Rincewind is an Epic level slacker.