Odd multiclass idea

[Spacehamster]

Hello playground.

So 12 vengence paladin, 4 assassin rogue + 4 full caster class. Would give 2 lvl 5 slots for nova damage, auto crit on surprised enemies. Would as half orc with great axe net 3d12 +5, + 12d8 on both attacks which sounds kinda wicked.

Now my question to you guys is as follows: which full caster class and sub class would be best for this? My idea were either lore bard for 3 skill prof + expertise or illusion wizard for the cool improved minor illusion cantrip. And dont want counter suggestions to other builds, just suggestions on which full caster class to take 4 lvls in, even tho Im sure there are much better builds. :)

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!

[Gwendol]

My immediate suggestion would be a CHA based casting class: Bard, Sorceror, or Warlock. Which of them depends on your preferences with respect to spell slots and spells known.

[Spacehamster]

My immediate suggestion would be a CHA based casting class: Bard, Sorceror, or Warlock. Which of them depends on your preferences with respect to spell slots and spells known.

Yeah think lore bard would give the most for only 4 lvls, 2 expertise skills, 3 skill proficiencies and more hp then sorcerer, and what spells I get does not matter that much since it only goes up to lvl 2 spells. :)

[Gwendol]

Don't understimate the usefulness of lvl 2 spells! Pick a selection that doesn't grow stale with time. At least one illusion!

[Spacehamster]

Oh and lets expand the subject a little. :)
Feats what to take? I have rolled stats that turned out amazing so will prob just take one ASI. Idea is mostly pure melee damage, not to control the battlefield or anything fancy like that. So for feats looking mainly for out of combat versatility and dmg increasing feats.

[Gwendol]

Lucky and magic initiate maybe? Sentinel is pretty good as well.

[Spacehamster]

Lucky and magic initiate maybe? Sentinel is pretty good as well.

Lucky sounds good magic initiate Im not sure about since I get spells from 2 classes already. What do you think of alert, observant(+wis), resilient(+wis), skulker and great weapon master? This is assuming I take no ASI's which with my stats is doable np.

Would make him a super perceptive, high initiative, highly competent scout that can smash the crap out of ppl once the time for sneaking has passed.

[Gwendol]

Skulker I had actually listed, but forgot to type. The other ones are good, they broaden your character.

[Spacehamster]

Skulker I had actually listed, but forgot to type. The other ones are good, they broaden your character.

Thanks, and thinking put expertise on stealth, perception, investigation and insight, making him the ultimate detective. Passive investigation and perception will be insanely high with observant + expertise. Also got survival from background so can track decently aswell. :)

[Gwendol]

Building a half-orc Sherlock are we?

[Spacehamster]

Building a half-orc Sherlock are we?

Something like that aye. :p should in any case be both useful to the party and fun to play. :)

[Abithrios]

Thanks, and thinking put expertise on stealth, perception, investigation and insight, making him the ultimate detective. Passive investigation and perception will be insanely high with observant + expertise. Also got survival from background so can track decently aswell. :)

If you can spare one of those for athletics, then you become great at grappling and shoving. Grapple plus shove equals disadvantage for them and advantage for you and your allies. Bonus action dash means you can move them even farther than normal. Also, they can't stand back up unless they escape your clutches.

[mr_odd]

Well that is an... Odd.... idea.

My vote would be to go wild magic Sorcerer. Good variety of spells, plus I think it would be the best flavor-wise. Also, pick up war caster. Like ASAP.

[Talderas]

My immediate suggestion would be a CHA based casting class: Bard, Sorceror, or Warlock. Which of them depends on your preferences with respect to spell slots and spells known.

It has to be bard or sorcerer and probably bard. Warlock levels do not contribute to level for calculating spell slots.

[Person_Man]

My thought is Cleric; Guidance cantrip, Spiritual Weapon, Animate Dead, and several awesome Domain choices.

Spiritual Weapon, in particular, is probably the (mostly hidden and highly debated) reason why Clerics don't have Extra Attack. Its only a Bonus Action to cast, and gives you one additional attack every round, using your Bonus Action to continue it each turn, and spellcasting Ability Score for attack and damage, for 1 minute (without needing Concentration), and it requires an attack roll (and can thus crit), and can be cast out of higher level slots for more damage (though it doesn't scale particularly well unless combat is going to last at least 3+ rounds, which you're obviously trying to avoid).

[Xetheral]

I second Cleric, and the war domain in particular. War priest gives you a bonus action attack (and thus an extra autocrit smite) with your greataxe while assassinating, and guided strike has a very high probability to turn a miss into an autocrit hit.

[Spacehamster]

Thanks for all the replies and tips, pretty much decided for 4 bard now as it goes best with my mental image of my char. :)
Reason for not taking cleric is we already got a cleric of that domain in the group but with Pal, rog and bard Im alone classwise. :)

[Spacehamster]

So now the question of which order to take levels, started as 1 rogue and atm Im lvl 2 and took that level in paladin. So guess best path is take all paladin levels up to 5 lvls pal for 2 attacks or should I go up to lvl 6 pal straight away for the bonuses to saves? After that up to lvl 4 rogue for assassin, feat and cunning action. And after that take the 4 bard levels to get expertise, 4 new skills and more spell slots? This sound like a sound order to take the levels in?

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!

[Spacehamster]

Char is now 4 paladin 1 rogue, know next level will be pala for extra attack but not sure if I should take lvl 6 paladin right away for better saves, or three levels rogue for cunning action, assassin and a feat OR start his levels in hard for more skills and more expertise, any thoughts on which path would be best to start with? :)

[Felvion]

As for your next levels i'd say start picking rogue after paladin 5. Cunning action can be equally good with saves bonuses and if you really don't need the feat i'd say pick rogue 3 and then take the 6th of pal. Then take the 4 levels of bard and postpone the 4rth of rogue for as long as you can or until you really want a feat.

[Spacehamster]

As for your next levels i'd say start picking rogue after paladin 5. Cunning action can be equally good with saves bonuses and if you really don't need the feat i'd say pick rogue 3 and then take the 6th of pal. Then take the 4 levels of bard and postpone the 4rth of rogue for as long as you can or until you really want a feat.

Thanks think I will get rogue 4 cause next feat will be getting proficient in wis saves which will be quite helpful. :)

[Felvion]

Thanks think I will get rogue 4 cause next feat will be getting proficient in wis saves which will be quite helpful. :)

Man, of all the possible choices, this could be the worst!:smallannoyed:
Rogue 4 is a "dead" level, take out the feat. No other feature or sneak increase. If you feel you want better saves pick paladin 6, it gives you the aura which applies to both you and (potentialy) your allies. It's far better than the feat! After you get the aura, assuming your cha is quite high, picking resilient is an overkill imho. You certainly have better feat options and if you don't pick some build integral feat, i think the best is to start taking bard levels before it's too late. Low level illusions and such bardy tricks become less useful the higher the levels get so you better pick them asap. In such levels (11-13) it's better to have a bit more of spellcasting capabilities than just a higher (than your already high) wis save.
Some feats i consider better candidates are
1)Lucky, its use goes beyond just saves to attack rolls and hits against you!
2)Great weapon master for obvious reasons.
3)Sentinel can make good use of your reactions
4)Alert can ensure you play first and get that so nice surprise nova!
As long as you can make it with less feats/ASIs i'd even suggest you finish your build with bard5/rogue3 instead of 4/4.
Your call anyway!

Ps: I recall you've mentioned this character in a thread or two. I'd really wish to know how he's been doing that far and what kind of stats have made this half-orc playable!

[Particle_Man]

Off topic but I remember a long time ago a strip of a comic called Knights of the Dinner Table where a player startled his DM by saying "I am playing an assassin/paladin with fire breath!".

In 5e, that is quite possible (dragonborn paladin/rogue (assassin).

So I am glad for threads like this for helping me to realize how flexible 5e is, given my old habits of thinking.

:smallcool:

[Rilak]

Now my question to you guys is as follows: which full caster class and sub class would be best for this? My idea were either lore bard for 3 skill prof + expertise or illusion wizard for the cool improved minor illusion cantrip. And dont want counter suggestions to other builds, just suggestions on which full caster class to take 4 lvls in, even tho Im sure there are much better builds. :)

Keep in mind stat requirements. 13 INT or WIS is not something you desire... You already need 13 STR/DEX/CHA to multi-class Rogue/Paladin, and the DEX is not something that benefits you a lot.

I do agree with Felvion that Rogue 4 is a very weak level. The reason being that you do not benefit from sneak attack or more Rogue levels (Rogue 7 with Paladin aura and proficiency in dex saves makes you resistant to dragons and many nasty blaster spells). Paladin 6 helps your allies as well. Paladin 5 gives you an extra attack, which you want asap. The Rogue assassinate feature only kicks in if you manage to surprise an enemy.

The remaining Paladin levels that matter most are 9 (Haste), and 11 (Imp. Divine Smite). The rest is stuff you can live without, so going Paladin 5/Rogue 1/Bard 1 is the first thing I would do (Faerie Fire). Bard 3 is also a very strong choice. And if you are Paladin 5/Rogue 3/Bard 3, you quickly see how easy the choice is if you should take Rogue 4 or Bard 4 first ;) Bard gives spells known, cantrip known, and spell slots in addition to the ASI.

[Spacehamster]

Keep in mind stat requirements. 13 INT or WIS is not something you desire... You already need 13 STR/DEX/CHA to multi-class Rogue/Paladin, and the DEX is not something that benefits you a lot.

I do agree with Felvion that Rogue 4 is a very weak level. The reason being that you do not benefit from sneak attack or more Rogue levels (Rogue 7 with Paladin aura and proficiency in dex saves makes you resistant to dragons and many nasty blaster spells). Paladin 6 helps your allies as well. Paladin 5 gives you an extra attack, which you want asap. The Rogue assassinate feature only kicks in if you manage to surprise an enemy.

The remaining Paladin levels that matter most are 9 (Haste), and 11 (Imp. Divine Smite). The rest is stuff you can live without, so going Paladin 5/Rogue 1/Bard 1 is the first thing I would do (Faerie Fire). Bard 3 is also a very strong choice. And if you are Paladin 5/Rogue 3/Bard 3, you quickly see how easy the choice is if you should take Rogue 4 or Bard 4 first ;) Bard gives spells known, cantrip known, and spell slots in addition to the ASI.

Will skip rogue 4 and take that as level 1 cleric knowledge domain for two more skills with expertise, that will complete my skill monkeyness! ;p but yeah paly 5 and 1 rogue 1 bard sounds good. Will prob get lots of use out of assassinate tho as I got expertise in stealth and will take skulker as 2nd feat methinks. :)

I do benefit from sneak attack tho, did I forget to mention I choose duelist style and using rapier + shield in favor of 2handed weapons?

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!

[odigity]

So 12 vengence paladin, 4 assassin rogue + 4 full caster class. Would give 2 lvl 5 slots for nova damage, auto crit on surprised enemies. Would as half orc with great axe net 3d12 +5, + 12d8 on both attacks which sounds kinda wicked.

It's not that odd. Paladin is specifically recommended as one of the best classes to pair with Assassin Rogue for the nova potential in the Assassin's guide:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4149876

Also, minor correct: You get no benefit from using a 5th lvl spell slot for Divine Smite:

PHB85: "The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8."

It tops at 5d8 at slot lvl 4.


Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!

May I suggest you move your "catchphrase" into a proper forum signature by editing your settings? First off, will save you lots of typing. Second, I find sigs annoying, and having the horizontal line between the actual message and the signature makes it easy to visually/mentally skip over sigs, and I can't do that if you're actually typing your sig into every message body...

[Myzz]

just a question why not Rogue 5 for uncanny Dodge?

[Vintrastorm]

WARNING: READING THIS MIGHT SPOIL YOUR BUILD


Greataxe + Sneak attack = FAIL.
(Unless there's a houserule that indicates otherwise.)

Sneak Attack is only available if you use weapons with FINESSE property. No finesse, no sneak attack.

EDIT: I just re-read 1st post and realized that they are all d12:s and d8:s. No sneak attack factored in. My bad. :)

...

But why use lvl 5 spell slots for smite when level 4 does the exact same job?

[Aramis Rhett]

Why not go Blade Pact Warlock? Pact Weapon (your choice) and the ability to attune to magic weapons (Hazirawn from HotDQ for example) would suit a melee build. Invocations are a plus, long range cantrip for when you need it, and a couple spell slots, which return after a short rest. Not too shabby, if a bit more limited but more expendable if your DM allows for 2-3 short rests per day.

[Spacehamster]

WARNING: READING THIS MIGHT SPOIL YOUR BUILD


Greataxe + Sneak attack = FAIL.
(Unless there's a houserule that indicates otherwise.)

Sneak Attack is only available if you use weapons with FINESSE property. No finesse, no sneak attack.

EDIT: I just re-read 1st post and realized that they are all d12:s and d8:s. No sneak attack factored in. My bad. :)

...

But why use lvl 5 spell slots for smite when level 4 does the exact same job?

Wont be using a greataxe for the build after all, the 2 sneak attack die makes up for the smaller die of rapier plus shield plus makes me harder to hit. Also frees up a ASI/feat. Which will be put into medium armor master for sneaky half plate use. Oh and the 5th level slots will mostly be used for powering up lower lvl spells. :)