Every spellcasting PrC is full casting

[atemu1234]

No half casting, 3/4 casting, just full casting, and anything that advances spellcasting advances it completely. What build would you make?

[Vegan Zombie]

Master of the Unseen Hand

Finally playable!!!!!

[Psyren]

Hierophant
Arcane Archer
Warshaper
Rage Mage
Enlightened Spirit
Troubadour of Stars
Master of Masks
Psibond Agent
Cerebrex

[Dusk Eclipse]

If we can also use this for Manifesting PRC I'd be so happy!

METAMIND IS ACTUALLY USEFUL!
I can finally make an Elocater/Slayer that doesn't miss on Greater Metamorposis! Psion Uncarnate would also be cool.

[sideswipe]

does this include classes that should but dont? like wonderworker?

btw spellsword

[Psyren]

10/10 Psion Uncarnate would be crazy good, especially the PF version.

[Telonius]

Master of Masks jumps to the top of my list.

Green Star Adept might actually be worthwhile.

[Uncle Pine]

OMNISLASH Arcane Duelist!

[crankykobold]

Druid5/Warshaper5/Master of Many Forms10.

[Mission0]

Mindbender definitely.

Always thought it would be fun to play, but the lack of a full casting progression always kept me away.

[Troacctid]

Master Transmogrifist would be pretty broken.

Hey, how about them Sublime Chords? A 9-level spell progression of their own while also advancing another casting class? That's nice and busted, eh?

Jade Phoenix Mage and Ruby Knight Vindicator are a lot better. So is Swiftblade.

[ZamielVanWeber]

If we can also use this for Manifesting PRC I'd be so happy!

METAMIND IS ACTUALLY USEFUL!
I can finally make an Elocater/Slayer that doesn't miss on Greater Metamorposis! Psion Uncarnate would also be cool.

Dear lord you beat me to it. I love Psion Uncarnate and Metamind but the losing the manifesting (especially on Metamind) HURT.

Ooze Master would be fun to play now.

[Extra Anchovies]

Question for OP: Are we giving noncasting PrCs casting (a la Master of the Unseen Hand or Master of Many Forms), or just maxing out partial-casting PrCs?

Either way, full casting on Spellsword would be awesome.

[A Tad Insane]

Finally acolyte of the skin becomes as metal as advertised.
Also swiftblade is like your regular wizard, only on a sugar rush. Gods save us all.

[Forrestfire]

Swiftblade becomes even cooler, Entropomancer becomes badass, various other ones hampered by spellcasting progressions become playable... That'd be a lot of fun, probably. Would need some heavy gentlemen-agreeing though.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I just read entropomancer and was about to post it. Hilariously Shining Blade of Heironeous gets a niche use as being able to boost a cleric's BAB without using Divine Power.

[AvatarVecna]

It seems like a bad idea balance-wise: without this rule, people played straight casters because sacrificing casting sucks; with it, there's no reason not to take a PrC, since you're not really giving anything up for it. That said, to make certain casting PrCs more viable, I'd certainly increase their casting in general, I just wouldn't say "all casting PrCs get full casting", even if my changes resulted in a lot of them getting full casting anyway. As it is, a blanket rule like that just seems ripe for abuse.

[Extra Anchovies]

Finally acolyte of the skin becomes as metal as advertised.

Oh, yes. I had forgotten about that one.

Green Star Adept, too.

[Curmudgeon]

Maybe Cloaked Dancer (Complete Scoundrel). Perhaps 5/5 spellcasting (instead of 2/5) would make this very silly PrC worth trying out.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It seems like a bad idea balance-wise: without this rule, people played straight casters because sacrificing casting sucks; with it, there's no reason not to take a PrC, since you're not really giving anything up for it. That said, to make certain casting PrCs more viable, I'd certainly increase their casting in general, I just wouldn't say "all casting PrCs get full casting", even if my changes resulted in a lot of them getting full casting anyway. As it is, a blanket rule like that just seems ripe for abuse.

Using PrCs that give up any sort of casting now is extremely rare, as least from an optimization stand point. A change like this would be more likely to just boost diversity. Consider entropomancer: its class abilities are fairly strong, but each usable only twice per day and its capstone is thematically AMAZING but requires you to find an artifact to make use of. In return, you lose half your casting. Making it full casting means now Cleric 5/Entropomancer 10/X 5 is not going to be throwing away powerful spells for abilities that are unlikely to last for the standard 4 encounter day, which means that not only am I encouraged to use it over what were once much stronger PrCs, but it lets me safely play cool PrCs without accidentally punishing team mates who may be relying on my casting.

I think this would be more apparent with arcane magic than divine (Incantatrix, Mage of the Arcane Order, IotSV, all offer full casting already) but I would only really be concerned about power issues with psionics, where full manifesting PrCs are extremely rare.

[Uncle Pine]

Finally acolyte of the skin becomes as metal as advertised.


Green Star Adept, too.


booooo For those who didn't get the joke: starmetal is a metal.

[ben-zayb]

Did you just make True Necromancer not suck? Wow!

Jade Phoenix Mage can now get 9ths for Sorcs easily.

Void Disciple with full casting...delicious.

No more Text Trumps Table arguments on Rainbow Servant, I suppose.

This change also makes me want to try Daggerpell Shaper and Daggerspell Mage.

EDIT: Nightmare Spinner becomes a better dip class!

[AnonymousPepper]

Jade Phoenix Mage basically renders Duskblade and almost every other kind of gish obsolete.

[Troacctid]

Seeker of the Song gets a lot better if it progresses spellcasting. And how about Prestige Bard? That seems solid.

[Extra Anchovies]

Prestige Paladin and Prestige Ranger become pretty darn useful.

[(Un)Inspired]

Ohhhhhhh baby. Master of Masks would be so cool. I could finally make a majora's mask character.

They're so simple but I really think the EK and Slayer would actually be useful, even if only as filler in a ton of builds.

[Forrestfire]

Can we give Silver Key full casting? I'd love to play a Trickster Spellthief or Beguiler/Silver Key for that wonderful capstone. :smallbiggrin:


Jade Phoenix Mage basically renders Duskblade and almost every other kind of gish obsolete.

The real gishes already rendered Duskblade obsolete. In this sort of setup, Jade Phoenix Mage is strictly inferior to Swiftblade, as well. I'd think that the best gish would be Wizard 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4 in whatever combination, since it's 20/20 casting, 17/20 BAB, has amazing defenses, and gets all sorts of neat tricks on top of that.